Poll - Weak Sorceror

THE JAKER · Post by **THE JAKER** » Tue Sep 18, 2001 4:04 pm

Well, everyone agrees that the sorceror can be the most bad@ss class around, but only if you pick the best spells. So what are the worst spells for a sorceror?

HighWatcher Zubie · Post by **HighWatcher Zubie** » Tue Sep 18, 2001 4:33 pm

Well Summon Familiar for one wastes one spell slot since you can use it only once.
Other than that I guess it would be any spell you've never used.

[ 09-18-2001: Message edited by: HighWatcher Zubie ]

Nightmare · Post by **Nightmare** » Tue Sep 18, 2001 4:59 pm

Know Alignment.

Rob-hin · Post by **Rob-hin** » Tue Sep 18, 2001 11:44 pm

I use know aligment. For aample, if you have a quest and don't know who is telling the truth, use know alignment

THE JAKER · Post by **THE JAKER** » Tue Sep 18, 2001 11:55 pm

I use "know alignment" too - like I'll say to a bunch of orcs "anyone who glows red briefly is a big wussy!" and then I'll cast the spell - really pisses them off.

Hey I've got one spell for the "weak sorceror" - Protection from Acid! THAT's one you really want the option of casting 8 times a day!

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Wed Sep 19, 2001 12:02 am

Rob, a much better spell is detect evil. detect evil has life scan properties, so that you cast it in the copper coronet, you can actually sense the minatour king in the underground area!

Its almost as good as the tracking special ability, but does not give you vector loc ations. It will definately tell you who is evil in any encounter, and in the quests. well, you know, WALKTHRU is the best way.

a definately useless spell is friends.

buy the nymph cloak in the docks and wear the ring of human influence from circus quest, and you're set to bargin.

Fireball, lightning bolt, and cloudkill are pretty useless, in my opinion.

Fireball is too weak, replace with wand and get delay blast fireball, better damage and quite creative uses, also can be spell triggered for massive damage.

Lightning bolt is also replaced by wand, except I never use it, too dangerous in enclosed areas.

cloudkill useless? Inc cloud is better in every way, for fire vulnerable critters if you want a stationary damage effect, and the wand works great.

Oh, yeah, lets not forget the absolutely the most pathetic spell for a mage or sorceror....

Energy drain!!!

DOes it have any use what so ever?

Promise · Post by **Promise** » Wed Sep 19, 2001 6:13 am

my picks for most useless spells, osrted bt levels:
1. infravision, who needs that with any demihuman NPC?
2.have to agree on know alignment being useless
3.Clairvoyance, works only outdoors makes it lame
4.The worst is contagion IMO, though level 4 spells are all quite good
5.Conjure lesser X elementals, a waste of time
6.Flesh to stone, especially for solo
7.Hard to choose again, control undead maybe, let the evil clerics do that
8.Power word: blind
9.Energy drain, of course, followed closely by freedom, you get enough scrolls anyway

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Wed Sep 19, 2001 6:28 am

Chromatic Orb. That is pretty useless i think even squirrels can save vs spell against that spell

Kovi · Post by **Kovi** » Wed Sep 19, 2001 8:08 am

Contagion has a specific use: it can be used to eliminate unkillable (minhp1) enemies in combo with Ray of Enfeeblement.

On the other hand I think Power Word Blind is a really good spell. Insta cast, (small)area effect, no save. Nobody is immune, it can be removed only with dispel magic. It can even protect you from enemies, which would otherwise see the invisible.
It seems there are no useless spells on the 8th level, I would choose Improved Mantle as the worst.

Izgoth · Post by **Izgoth** » Wed Sep 19, 2001 12:01 pm

Chromatic orb is one of the best spells. Save at -6 and has insta kill. Almost too good to be true.

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Wed Sep 19, 2001 12:16 pm

Kovi, pls verify contagion and affliction spells!!!!!

Clairvoyance is not useless. Someone has mentioned if a sim casts it, it works indoors!!!

does NOT work with project image....

elemental conjuration is useless, tho the turn per level limit in tob with greater elementals makes it less useless.

in soa, greaters would last rounds per turn, which was sucky.

mr, sleep and izzie are both right about chromo sphere. kevins fix pack removes about have the cheese of this spell. I think the original did not check for save in certain situations.

flesh to stone is by far the most useless spell.

Disintegrate is much better. flesh to stone will destroy loot, and does not have disintegrate's high level, so its easier to save against.

finest spell in existance....

abu dahzim!!!!

blast the defenses with pierce magic and hit with kelbens warding whip, which is a better mage interrupter for a monster capable of raising spell protections than acid arrow...hit with abu and it takes massive damage.

the most evil chain cont. is

khelbens warding whip, inc cloud an dabu dahzim...

inc cloud is the only spell i've ever found will interrupt lich spell casting except kelbens warding whip.

best triggers are triple skull traps,

and considering how sucky some of the 2nd level spels are, I need to know if contagion and affliction will indeed kill unkillables.

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Wed Sep 19, 2001 1:56 pm

Spell Thrust, Secret Word, Pierce Shield, Ruby Ray of Reversal, Khelben's Warding Whip and Spellstrike gives you a lot of spells that do very little.

The close combat spells are horrible: Chill Touch, Shocking Grasp, Ghoul Touch, Enchanted Weapon, Phantom Blade.

Color Spray and Sleep only work on very low level creatures.

Other spells that don't give you much to work with: Friends, Find Familiar (since you can cast it from a scroll anyway), Infravision, Protection from Petrification, Deafness, Know Alignment, Luck, Vocalize (how often have you been Silenced?), Clairvoyance, Non-Detection (since the Cloak is practically for grabs), Fireshield (especially the blue one), Remove Curse (anyone ever get cursed?), Flesh to Stone (if solo), Protection from Acid, Protection from Electricity, Energy Drain, Freedom (if solo).

Originally posted by Rob-hin:
I use know aligment. For aample, if you have a quest and don't know who is telling the truth, use know alignment

And then you do the quest anyway, to get the loot, be doublecrossed by your employer, and kill the bastard.

What's the difference?

Originally posted by Promise:
8.Power word: blind

Bada$$ Lich killer!

Originally posted by Kovi:
Contagion has a specific use: it can be used to eliminate unkillable (minhp1) enemies in combo with Ray of Enfeeblement.

How does that work? I looked into it a bit, but could not find any effect that would do this...

Originally posted by Izgoth:
Chromatic orb is one of the best spells. Save at -6 and has insta kill. Almost too good to be true.

The save has a 6 point bonus...

Kovi · Post by **Kovi** » Wed Sep 19, 2001 2:08 pm

Chromatic Orb's save is +6, which means that is pretty useless in ToB (though it can finish a Fire Troll).

Contagion lowers Str, Dex and Charisma by 2. When any of them reaches 0, the victim is dead. Though the effects are permanent, one can speed up the process by using Ray of Enfeeblement first (which sets Str to 5). You still need at least 4 spells (failed save) to kill.
This is the only way to kill the Sewer Golem in Irenicus Dungeon (though it also needs some Lower Resist).

Khelben/Pierce Shield does nothing good in that situation. It won't disrupts spellcasting and you don't have to remove spell defenses: Abi-Dalzim /Incendiary will hit the victim anyway.

Kovi · Post by **Kovi** » Wed Sep 19, 2001 2:17 pm

Spell removals can have more value, in theoretic battles or with improved AI enemy, which might use various Spell Immunities and even Spell Shield, but don't cheese with Improved Invisibility + SI

iv combo.

Quitch · Post by **Quitch** » Wed Sep 19, 2001 2:17 pm

Power Word: Sleep. Now *that* is a useless spell. If anyone has hit points low enough for it to work, it was because you were going to kill them with your next hit.

I'd say Breach makes almost every other anti-magical protection spell worthless. Why break down five layers of defence, when you can use one spell and let the Fighters get on with it?

I thought Chromatic Orb gave a 4 point bonus? Oh yes, that is one useless mother of a spell

Excuse for a spell I should say.

Kovi · Post by **Kovi** » Wed Sep 19, 2001 2:38 pm

If you have a fighter heavy party Breach is the way to go. But it can be countered. Mirror Image/Blur is not removed with Breach; Spell Shield prevent the first Breach and Improved Invisibility prevents any targeting.

Obsidian · Post by **Obsidian** » Wed Sep 19, 2001 3:08 pm

LOL, this topic started as a "weakest sorc" and is now "strongest spell combo". FUnny how we cant stay on topic for more than 5 posts hey?

Kovi · Post by **Kovi** » Wed Sep 19, 2001 3:14 pm

Forgot about the combos: Infravision and Know alignment in a minor sequencer. It is almost cheesy!

Kovi · Post by **Kovi** » Wed Sep 19, 2001 4:06 pm

Hmmm...Contagion effects doesn't seem to work on the minhp1 belt (Sewage Golem) anymore, even Mind Flyer int drain won't work on that. It might have been changed for ToB...Both methods still works on imoenhp1 belt (Imoen) though.

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Wed Sep 19, 2001 7:26 pm

Evil spell sequencer...I was wondering what to put in that stupid pupply except skull traps...

ray of enfeeblement and contagion x2

Removing spell prots is not useless. demogorgon and 3 demons held off a force of 5 planetars, cheesed in, until I hit with spell strike. must have had prot from magic weps up and hummin. spell strike does not become an issue until in tob when a lot of bosses have spell prots up. you only need spell strike and khelbens. one to take down, the other to keep them down. it doesn't so much disrupt spell casting, my bad...the lich and mage scripts keeps them busy trying to raise new ones. sorry for the confusion...