What is the BEST mage spell?

HostileGod · Post by **HostileGod** » Sat Oct 06, 2001 4:18 am

well..... WHAT IS IT?

:
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MegaToerist · Post by **MegaToerist** » Sat Oct 06, 2001 4:34 am

The problem with choosing a best mage spell, is that there are many different situations. There's always bound to be a best spell, but is that spell just as good in other situations? e.g. Knock can be very good if you really /need/ to open a chest, but is quite worthless during combvat (though you could always found decent uses for seemingly worthless spells in PnP). Time Stop might be very powerful, but it won't save your hide if you're unable to do something useful during those 3 rounds. Improved Alacrity really speeds up casting, but that's only if you have other useful spells left. Breach is one of the best spells to tear through an opposing mage's defense, but you still need to be able to hurt him (if you're in a party, there are always fighters around to do that, but in a wizard vs. wizard situation, it might be possible that you won't be able to hurt the opposing mage in time to get any use from the Breach)

You see, each spell has its very own "ideal use". I don't think it is therefore possible to choose a single best spell: spells should be used in conjunction with each other, and in conjunction with normal actions/items.

My favourite spell is Magic Missile: quick casting, nice to disrupt enemy spellcasting (if they don't have Spell Turning,...

), low level, and decent damage.

When it comes to spells however, just keep in mind the following:
"A Wizard is not very different from an Orc, even with all his spells, when he's got an arrow sticking out of his chest. Or my sword in his stomach for that matter..."
- Enaloindir, Human Scout

TC, Geert

incandescent one · Post by **incandescent one** » Sat Oct 06, 2001 4:55 am

I personally don't like Magic Missile all that much. Sure you could get away with it in PS:T where no one had MR, but here it's like even people you would never think to have it (ie. Cattie Brie in Drizzt's party). And they don't just have it, they probably have it in the mid 70's and up. And even if you take down the MR, there are creatures (Demogorgon, final boss, Abazigal I think too, but not sure about Abazzy) that have a permanent undispellable Minor Globe of Invulnerability.

MegaToerist · Post by **MegaToerist** » Sat Oct 06, 2001 5:58 am

Actually, Magic Missile penetrates Magic Resistance more easily than other spells: each missile gets a MR check, so the odds of getting through increase. This comes is handy when facing spellcasting monsters. (with 5 missiles (= 1 spell

), the odds of getting at least one through a 70%MR shield are 83% (!!), which is quite good IMO)

About Demogorgon: this is one of those occasions where other spells are more usefull. When facing special creatures, it always requires special measures to get them bite into the dust.
My choice of MM is based upon the broad application area of the spell, and its being rather powerful for a lowly level 1 spell. Of course, there are spells that are more powerful in a certain situation, but I'm sure there aren't many encouters where Magic Missile is completely useless.
Sure, when facing Demogorgy, a simple MM isn't going to save you.

@transcendent two: what's your favourite spell?
TC, Geert

theone · Post by **theone** » Sat Oct 06, 2001 10:34 am

morkinean's sword is the spell of choice. personally i prefer a contingency with that and a invis loaded together so you can watch the sword kick ass

Quitch · Post by **Quitch** » Sat Oct 06, 2001 12:28 pm

I rather like Imprisonment. Kill off some powerful minion instantly, and they don't get any save against it.

Sure it doesn't work against the biggest and baddest, but heck, that's what Greater Whirlwind is for

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Sat Oct 06, 2001 3:23 pm

Clones!

Of course, they're only useful if the character they clone is useful.

Kovi · Post by **Kovi** » Sat Oct 06, 2001 3:29 pm

In SoA (xp cap): Sunfire.
In ToB: Power Word Blind.

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Sat Oct 06, 2001 4:34 pm

Mega has a good point, also the spells that are best fro a char is changed radically by the type of spell caster.... also party or solo or even small party or large party...

sorcs are very nasty and very evil with chian spells and abu dahzims, your great advantage will be setting up triggers and chains "on the fly" for special encounters, rather than prepping the night before. you don't get as many spells, so you need pure damage spells, and use project image for most combats. time stop anad greater alacrity for masses of enemies and most "blast-fest" situatiions, chain contingency for the evil see-enemy-die-die-die effect.

Quitch · Post by **Quitch** » Sat Oct 06, 2001 4:59 pm

Ah yes Xyx.

Simulacrum. Everything else is simply second best

roguekiller · Post by **roguekiller** » Sat Oct 06, 2001 5:25 pm

Chromatic Orb, it is definitly worth having when your mage is at a high lvl!!!

Quitch · Post by **Quitch** » Sat Oct 06, 2001 6:11 pm

WHAT?? No way! Combine the ToB Save Vs Spell values with the +6 to save that the spell gives, and what you have is one hell of a useless spell.

Take Magic Missile

THE JAKER · Post by **THE JAKER** » Sat Oct 06, 2001 7:55 pm

One time I petrified a hobgoblin with chromatic orb, that was kindof cool, but the save bonus definitely makes that spell not so cool.

I have a lot of fondness for Abudazims, skull trap, and of course project image, magic missile the old standby, and a couple of great ones: improved haste and mass invisibility.

But I think i have to go with improved alacrity, you have to have the robe of vecna an a lot of short casting time damage spells memorized and it is the most awesome thing ever!

Oh yeah and chain contingency too. I can't decide I like them all.

Ned Flanders · Post by **Ned Flanders** » Sat Oct 06, 2001 9:48 pm

An excellent post and obviously, as we have seen, open to several interpretations. I'll pitch in my two cents and vote for stoneskin. The reason being: my mage ALWAYS has one going. It will not help when you need to open that chest. It will not make a bit of difference when you are trying to get a vendor to purchase your 526 kua-toa paralytic bolts, but the fact remains. My mage always has a stoneskin active.

THE JAKER · Post by **THE JAKER** » Sat Oct 06, 2001 10:11 pm

Good point, ned. I think I might have to change my vote to stoneskin as well.

BTW, it's weird - I have 526 Kua toan parlytic bolts as well!! Weird, huh?

Craig · Post by **Craig** » Sun Oct 07, 2001 4:36 am

Best?i have no i dea but remove magis is marvellous

incandescent one · Post by **incandescent one** » Sun Oct 07, 2001 1:20 pm

I shamefully admit that my favorite is a lvl 40 (super uncapped) sorcerer using simalucrums and planetars (or their red skinned brethren).

However, two problems. 1- That's not one spell. 2- It's cheesy.

Given the parameters for my favorite spell, I would have to settle on saying I don't have one. Everything is combination. Triggers and uber-damage spells. Breach and Sarevok. Etc.

Hmmmm, come to think of it, Dragon's Breath is a good one to put down. It bypasses MR totally, does great damage, and disables your enemies. However against fire resistant ones like Demogorgon and **FINAL BOSS** elemental damage is useless.

One more piece to put in. Anyone else stop memorizing Lower Resistances ? I found storing triggers and all of that too unwieldy and required too much micro-management. In TOB I just said, if it has high MR, forget it, I'm just breaching and letting my tanks go at it. The only problem arises when they shadow door/mantle. But that's where you're Dragon's Breats enter play.

Magic Missile loses almost all effectiveness for me in TOB. I really didn't care anymore what I put in my first level slots. Magic Missile doesn't disrupt spells anymore. Hitting a mage during spell casting doesn't necessarily mean spell disruption. You need to repeatedly smack a mage to stop a spell. Greater Whirlwinding with the firetooth crossbow will do this. The elemental damage will get through any sort of protections you have, and I have yet to see a mage who preps with "Protection from Energy". Yes I understand that one shot out of five will usually get through, but 1d4+1 isn't going to stop any sort of spell, and most TOB adversaries have enough regeneration to make the damage negligible.

Musashi Miyamoto · Post by **Musashi Miyamoto** » Sun Oct 07, 2001 5:34 pm

That's one reason why i liked soa its more than just blast and blast and blast, with all those regenerative opponent that you just go to dump everything you got at them just to put them down. *shungs* i just think soa was more fun but the tob spells still are sweet!

two · Post by **two** » Sun Oct 07, 2001 8:23 pm

I would have to say STONESKIN, particularly for multi mage/fighters or bards.

At level 40 you get a sick number of them. The spell casts in like 1 second (even in middle of melee). It is easy to protect yourself against enemy spells (spell trap, spell turning, MR, robe of reflection, others), but not so easy against a simple sword chop. You can lower AC, throw in a mirror image, and hope for the best. If you add in StoneSkin (let's say this is the only level 4 spell you memorize) you can go, literally, hours in melee before being damaged. If you eventually take a hit, bang put up another StoneSkin and you are good to go. You can even have spell protections up that stop your StoneSkin from being dispelled -- which in my experience happens hardly ever.

Now, playing SOA/TOB with a mage-type or bard and NOT using stoneskin ever -- that's a good challenge. Pick any other spell, and it's not so bad (no time stop? more imp. alacrity or high level sequencers). But no StoneSkin? Makes you rethink your whole strategy. That's why I think it has to be StoneSkin.

Kovi · Post by **Kovi** » Sun Oct 07, 2001 10:26 pm

I also agree with stoneskin, especially because its extremely long term and the lack of enemy removal efforts.
Anyway with items like Boots of Speed, Robe of Vecna or Staff of Magi it is not so important. Mirror image can be used instead in the early phases, later in combo with Protection from Magical weapons (especially for the PC with normal weapon immunities). Clones can also be used as stoneskin "replacements".