Strange creatures

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Mon Feb 04, 2002 10:45 pm

No, I'm not referring to the SYM population here, but to creatures that exist in folklore and sometimes are claimed to exist.

Do you belive in the Loch Ness monster, Bigfoot, the Yeti, living dinosaurs or other such creatures?

fable · Post by **fable** » Mon Feb 04, 2002 10:47 pm

I still have problems believing in telemarketers.

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Mon Feb 04, 2002 11:00 pm

Originally posted by fable
I still have problems believing in telemarketers.

I do believe telemarketers exist, observations of them are unfortunately much more common than observations of for instance the Loch Ness monster. Although I'd rather wish they didn't exist and Nessie did

Waverly · Post by **Waverly** » Mon Feb 04, 2002 11:01 pm

Um, no.

I'm curious to see who does though.

Georgi · Post by **Georgi** » Mon Feb 04, 2002 11:02 pm

Interesting topic. Of course, the immediate rational response is to say that they're all *ahem* fables

Then again, it raises the question of where these tales originated from, and whether they could have just been invented with no precedent IRL... but I think I'm going to get out of my depth, so I'll just stop there. I'd probably believe in them if I saw them

THE JAKER · Post by **THE JAKER** » Mon Feb 04, 2002 11:02 pm

I don't know about the specific example ie Loch Ness Monster etc that you mentioned, but I do believe there has been some weird sh.. uh .. stuff that we in our modern day world cannot possibly imagine. I think there might be some big gaps in the fossil record, some ancient history that has been largely forgotten.

There are more things in heaven and earth than our dreamt of in our philosophy...

Sailor Saturn · Post by **Sailor Saturn** » Mon Feb 04, 2002 11:10 pm

Well, I believe that the "gods" of Greek, Roman, and Norse mythology may have actually existed, and possibly still do. I do not believe that they were really gods, though they obviously weren't 'mere' humans either. What exactly they were, I have not enough certainties to hazard a guess of at this time.

Waverly · Post by **Waverly** » Mon Feb 04, 2002 11:14 pm

SS: How could you suspect they existed (or still exist) without some insight into what they were. I would think one would follow the other.

Sailor Saturn · Post by **Sailor Saturn** » Mon Feb 04, 2002 11:18 pm

Originally posted by Waverly
SS: How could you suspect they existed (or still exist) without some insight into what they were. I would think one would follow the other.

Well, I have an idea; but it's a bit...unorthodox and so I'm wary to say it...

Waverly · Post by **Waverly** » Mon Feb 04, 2002 11:21 pm

Originally posted by Sailor Saturn

Well, I have an idea; but it's a bit...unorthodox and so I'm wary to say it...

It would have to be unorthodox. Van Daniken-esque even. I'm curious, though. Don't worry, I may disagree but I won't bite.

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Mon Feb 04, 2002 11:24 pm

Originally posted by Georgi
Then again, it raises the question of where these tales originated from, and whether they could have just been invented with no precedent IRL

Some things like the unicorn-narwhale tusk, can probably be explained by observations and findings that people at the time didn't now how to account for, found no explanation for. Geological formations, remains of animals and other phenomena might have led to interpretations very different from them we have today. The many basking shark remains interpreted as various fantastic sea creatures would be one example.

In Scandinavia, people used to believe in giants long ago because of phenomena created by the land-ice. For instance, big rocks in the middle of nowhere were called "giant's throws", it was believed the stones couldn't have get there by any other means than a giant throwing it in anger

Sailor Saturn · Post by **Sailor Saturn** » Mon Feb 04, 2002 11:32 pm

Originally posted by Waverly
It would have to be unorthodox. Van Daniken-esque even. I'm curious, though. Don't worry, I may disagree but I won't bite.

Alright. Well, first off, from the Bible, we know about fallen angels. It doesn't, however, as far as I can tell, say whether or not they all went and followed Satan. Maybe they eventually did, but what about at first? Some of the Greek, Roman, and Norse gods were benevolent. Others were malevolent. What if these were the fallen angels? As angels, they'd have had powers beyond what any human, especially of that time period, could've comprehended. They could've easily been thought to be gods. Maybe it was them getting referred to as gods that corrupted them, or maybe it was the thought of the "power" "gained" in becoming the "god" of a people. But, eventually, they sorta disappeared. People stopped believing in them and so maybe they joined Satan or went on to incorporate themselves into other religions. This is all, of course, just speculation.

Georgi · Post by **Georgi** » Mon Feb 04, 2002 11:34 pm

Originally posted by C Elegans
In Scandinavia, people used to believe in giants long ago because of phenomena created by the land-ice. For instance, big rocks in the middle of nowhere were called "giant's throws", it was believed the stones couldn't have get there by any other means than a giant throwing it in anger

Ah, but wouldn't they have had the concept of giants in the first place in order to conceive of the rocks in that manner?

Morlock · Post by **Morlock** » Mon Feb 04, 2002 11:39 pm

Originally posted by Waverly
SS: How could you suspect they existed (or still exist) without some insight into what they were. I would think one would follow the other.

@SS: I think by mentioning mytholegy your going off topic, I mean gods (or even suposed gods) aren't exactly "Strange creatures".
But, if you are, you could go to more modern religions. I mean I am not sure I believe what happened in the old testament (as you goys call it) realy heppened. I don't mean out of lack of faith, I mean out of believing that these were metphorical/insightful/incouriging acts put together in a book as a story, to make the book more interesting, exciting or to give examples of the perfections and imperfections of the books laws.
(Is this deep enough to be philosaphy?)

Sailor Saturn · Post by **Sailor Saturn** » Mon Feb 04, 2002 11:41 pm

Originally posted by Georgi

Ah, but wouldn't they have had the concept of giants in the first place in order to conceive of the rocks in that manner?

Exageration of tales about really tall people? Especially if they, themselves, are rather short. To me, anyone over 6' is a giant.

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Mon Feb 04, 2002 11:42 pm

Originally posted by Georgi
Ah, but wouldn't they have had the concept of giants in the first place in order to conceive of the rocks in that manner?

I'm really not sure about the causality order here, but I think that the concept of giants might first have occured by thinking "how can this rock have been placed here, at an empty field with no mountains close. Well, how do things move out of context? I can throw this small rock away from the other rocks, maybe someone like me but much larger threw this big rock away from the mountains".

I think man's strive to understand nature by looking at himself and the things familiar to him, may account for images of how things work that later can be further reinforced by interpreting new information into this concept. The Scandinavian giants, like the goblins (trolls) and many other mythic creatures, were very antropomorph.

Sailor Saturn · Post by **Sailor Saturn** » Mon Feb 04, 2002 11:45 pm

Originally posted by Morlock

@SS: I think by mentioning mytholegy your going off topic, I mean gods (or even suposed gods) aren't exactly "Strange creatures".
But, if you are, you could go to more modern religions. I mean I am not sure I believe what happened in the old testament (as you goys call it) realy heppened. I don't mean out of lack of faith, I mean out of believing that these were metphorical/insightful/incouriging acts put together in a book as a story, to make the book more interesting, exciting or to give examples of the perfections and imperfections of the books laws.
(Is this deep enough to be philosaphy?)

What's the difference between mythology and folklore? Unicorns are mythical creatures. Any creature out of folklore that doesn't really exist(or at least, isn't known to definitely exist) could be called mythical, couldn't it?

As to your comment about the old testament, the Bible is historically accurate. As to the miracles and such, it's your decision whether or not you believe they happened. I for one do believe they happened.

Georgi · Post by **Georgi** » Mon Feb 04, 2002 11:47 pm

Originally posted by Sailor Saturn
Exageration of tales about really tall people? Especially if they, themselves, are rather short. To me, anyone over 6' is a giant.

Sure, but there's a leap from just tall people to these mythical creatures that are known as giants...

Waverly · Post by **Waverly** » Mon Feb 04, 2002 11:50 pm

Originally posted by Sailor Saturn

What if these were the fallen angels? ...
...This is all, of course, just speculation.

I appreciate that you labeled this as speculation, but why link the bible to the classical myths in the first place? It seems to me like linking Moby D!ck to Catcher in the Rye and speculating that Holden was Ishmael’s son. It can’t be proven wrong, but there’s no real reason for the connection to begin with.

‘What if’ scenarios make interesting thought experiments, but can’t even cross over to being hypotheses without being based on more objective evidence.

Sailor Saturn · Post by **Sailor Saturn** » Mon Feb 04, 2002 11:50 pm

Originally posted by Georgi

Sure, but there's a leap from just tall people to these mythical creatures that are known as giants...

Add in the reasoning mentioned by CE and it all adds up. Or, at least, it does to me.