History's not what it used to be...

Georgi · Post by **Georgi** » Mon Apr 15, 2002 7:03 pm

I think this topic has been skirted around in a few other threads, but I figure it deserves one of its own, especially since we seem to have quite a few historians in our midst... So, this thread is for discussions about History... To quote E.H. Carr, "What is History?" What do you think the point is of History? Are some kinds of History more worthy of study than others? Is there such a thing as an "end" to History? What do you think of the way History is taught?

Well, that should be enough to begin with.

Please keep spam to a minimum

Nightmare · Post by **Nightmare** » Mon Apr 15, 2002 7:08 pm

Well, straight from the intro movie from IWD:

"They say that history is the greatest of all teachers, that past deads will shape the future."

'Nuff said, IMHO.

Tamerlane · Post by **Tamerlane** » Mon Apr 15, 2002 7:08 pm

Originally posted by Georgi
What do you think the point is of History? Are some kinds of History more worthy of study than others? Is there such a thing as an "end" to History? What do you think of the way History is taught?

To gain a better understanding of ourselves, to learn from our mistakes. To gain an insight into what man is truly capable of, from the deadliest of desires to the heroic and charitable stances.

I should probably back this all up, but I really can't be bothered right now...maybe later

Weasel · Post by **Weasel** » Mon Apr 15, 2002 7:08 pm

Originally posted by Georgi
What do you think the point is of History?

To learn from the mistakes of the past, which very few do.

Aegis · Post by **Aegis** » Mon Apr 15, 2002 7:12 pm

The way I see history is that it is something that keeps repeating itself until we get it right.

Aragorn Returns · Post by **Aragorn Returns** » Mon Apr 15, 2002 7:17 pm

you mean like groundhog day? what then is "getting it right?"

Tamerlane · Post by **Tamerlane** » Mon Apr 15, 2002 7:20 pm

Originally posted by Aragorn Returns
you mean like groundhog day? what then is "getting it right?"

Just take a look at the Middle East, if history has taught us something its that violence doesn't actually solve anything.

Aegis · Post by **Aegis** » Mon Apr 15, 2002 7:21 pm

Another take on history is in my qoute.

Aragorn Returns · Post by **Aragorn Returns** » Mon Apr 15, 2002 7:22 pm

i still like the groundhog day idea. i think we should come up with a real scientific theory and call it "The Groundhog Day Theory" that's one of my favorite movies.

Obsidian · Post by **Obsidian** » Mon Apr 15, 2002 7:38 pm

He who controls the past commands the future.

Or something like that.

I think it's a pretty obvious fact that history is there to be learned from, but I think it is also a form of immortilazation. I mean, who here wouldn't like to be remembered for doing something great? In the same way most ppl have children to continue themselves in a sense, some ppl use history to the same extent, for to assure yourself a place in the history books is to immortalize yourself and your deeds for generations to come.
A forum for our hopes and desires, from the depths of historical reference we can draw an infinite (well, almost) amount of knowledge from how things have been done. History isn't just something we learn from, it's a resource we can call upon to back us up. Knowledge and history are tied together.

Post 666, creeeeeepy!

fable · Post by **fable** » Mon Apr 15, 2002 7:59 pm

Originally posted by Tamerlane

Just take a look at the Middle East, if history has taught us something its that violence doesn't actually solve anything.

I'd have to differ on this one. Violence has frequently been used on an international scale to solve problems successfully. Violence has been used to overrun and capture other nations. It's been used to overthrow dictatorships, and install dictatorships. Peace can work, but never underestimate the effect of a good one-off assassination, a campaign of guerilla warfare, or a well-trained army of rebels.

Aragorn Returns · Post by **Aragorn Returns** » Mon Apr 15, 2002 8:05 pm

i have to agree with the parental paramecium on this one. violence is an incredibly effective way of dealing with situations. (come on aegis, you and me! let's go!

)

Tamerlane · Post by **Tamerlane** » Mon Apr 15, 2002 8:10 pm

Yes violence has been successful in the past for the victors. But that always stirs even more hatred in the losers thus restarting the cycle once again.

Maybe its just the pacifist within me talking...

Aragorn Returns · Post by **Aragorn Returns** » Mon Apr 15, 2002 9:00 pm

not if there aren't any losers left...

Tamerlane · Post by **Tamerlane** » Mon Apr 15, 2002 9:03 pm

But there are always losers. Every conflict must have a loser unless you begin to talk about genocide. Thats not exactly politically correct now is it.

Aragorn Returns · Post by **Aragorn Returns** » Mon Apr 15, 2002 9:05 pm

have i ever been concerned with political correctness?

fable · Post by **fable** » Mon Apr 15, 2002 9:14 pm

Originally posted by Tamerlane
Yes violence has been successful in the past for the victors. But that always stirs even more hatred in the losers thus restarting the cycle once again.

Maybe its just the pacifist within me talking...

There's nothing wrong with desiring peace as a solution to international problems. But don't make the mistake of defaming violence. It is an international solution that's been proven effective for thousands of years. There's only one nation I know of that doesn't maintain a standing army to deal with violence: Costa Rica. And that's only because they have a rocksolid defense treaty with the US. Our army is, in effect, their army.

Tamerlane · Post by **Tamerlane** » Mon Apr 15, 2002 9:20 pm

Don't take me for one of those peace loving hippies fable.

I know violence has its uses, I am still thinking of joining the armed forces. I also know that we will never live in a utopian society where peace prevails. But you can always hope

EDIT- @ fable

Have you checked your PM's?

Aragorn Returns · Post by **Aragorn Returns** » Mon Apr 15, 2002 9:32 pm

peace! ha! the people on this board can't even be controlled, let alone nations and terrorists.

Aegis · Post by **Aegis** » Mon Apr 15, 2002 10:07 pm

Originally posted by Obsidian
He who controls the past commands the future.

Kane. Very relevant qoute too, as history is written by the victors.