NPC's Profecencies

island007 · Post by **island007** » Fri May 03, 2002 5:46 pm

Hi

Is just me or do others wish some points where in other slots. I currently use SK only for fixing accidental droppings. I think only used a total of twice and I been through SOA and TOB three times.

Anyway the questions is how bad of a cheat is it to use SK to move the NPC's points around, so they can weild the weapons you like. I am tempted to do just that, and I was wondering what others thought on the topic.

Thanks
Leonard

Obsidian · Post by **Obsidian** » Fri May 03, 2002 6:00 pm

Meh, it's really not that big a deal. I know there are some npcs that I'd like to have with different slots. I don't use SK because I like the roleplaying aspect of the game, and doing so with what they give you. Compared to some of the stuff UserUnfriendly does though, fiddling with slots is small potatoes.

GNGSpam · Post by **GNGSpam** » Fri May 03, 2002 7:07 pm

Its cheating. Part of playing with NPCs is having to tailor your play and equipment distribution to fit theyre needs. If you simply cannot accomodate the NPC, then, hey, you cant use him in your party unless your willing to accept the consquences (such as Anomen and Keldorn in the same party with only one pair of gauntlets of Dex). Its supposed to be part of the fun making descions like that.

Besides, only with a fighter would profeciency slots be a major problem. All the other characters, due to the fact that they only get 1 or 2 slots per weapon, can be tailored to how you like anyways. So, the only real need to change the profeciency slot distribution would be if you didnt want Sarevok to use two handed swords in ToB or Korgan to use Axes, which, well, doesnt make a hell of a lot of sense to change.

That said, if its hindering your fun, go ahead and change it. But dont pretend it isnt cheating =P

island007 · Post by **island007** » Fri May 03, 2002 7:22 pm

Thats how I felt too. I won't do it. It's almost as bad as using traps on spawning areas, cloudkills to kill stationary creatures, pickpocketing Gaxx, x-cap remover, or exploiting an experience bug.

Actually the one that I could not understand was Minsc. It would've been nice for the ** in two weapon skill to be in 2-H weapon skill.

Thanks all for the replies
Leonard

Arch_Angel · Post by **Arch_Angel** » Fri May 03, 2002 7:24 pm

I don't really think it's that bad, or cheating. I did this the last time I went thru SOA and TOB. I did it because I wasn't able to decide between creating an entire multiplayer party, or using the NPC's for the dialogues. It was a good compromise

All I did was change around some of their profeciency slots and one or two stat points, I didn't however make them invincible or indestructable.

Ultimately it's up to you

You've been thru the game a few times now, so do whatever it takes to continue to have fun with it. IMO it's not cheating, there's really no differnce between doing this and creating your own party. If you wanted a RP reason for having an entire customised party, it could just be that they are friends of yours from Candlekeep - just like Imoen, along for the fun

Cheating, no. Powergaming? Perhaphs, but what's wrong with a little bit of powergaming?

GNGSpam · Post by **GNGSpam** » Fri May 03, 2002 7:53 pm

Two things

1)

Actually the one that I could not understand was Minsc. It would've been nice for the ** in two weapon skill to be in 2-H weapon skill.

He is a ranger, Rangers have an innate 2 *s in two weapon style. Most people, including myself, take advantage of this and have Minsc dual wield Flails and Maces/War Hammers. Another example of accomodating a characters attributes (actually this is much better. You dont get a decent 2 handed sword in the game except for the Holy Avenger, which Minsc cant use, and Warblade which is chapter 6)

2)

IMO it's not cheating

Yes it is. It is changing something within the game for your benefit/to your advantage. Sorry, thats cheating. Look, im not saying youre going to burn in hell for it. Its your game, if you completed it legitimately before, you know whats fun and what isnt, your best able to determine how to enjoy your game. So fine, do what you want.

But please please PLEASE dont sit here and pretend stuff like that isnt cheating. It is. You are using a program that is not part of the game to edit portions of the game not normally intended to be edited to give yourself an advantage. I mean, come on.

Like I said, do what you want and dont even feel guilty for it. If it makes the game more fun for you, hurrah. But, just dont try to rationalize it away. Makes it sound like you feel guilty

Arch_Angel · Post by **Arch_Angel** » Sat May 04, 2002 2:47 am

If I was to convvert those NPC's from BG 1, they would have profiency points in all the weapons I chose for them. There is no differnce between editing these NPC's and creating my own multiplayer party. The edited NPC's could all have profiencies that are reasonable, just the same as any created party, except they have a personality. Cheating would have been rasing all profeciency points as far as they could go, not switching a couple around.

You are using a program that is not part of the game to edit portions of the game not normally intended to be edited to give yourself an advantage.

No, in my game I was just changing things back the way I had them. I'd been in control of the characters since BG1 (I edited Imoen & Jaheira), their profiencies would have been exactly the way I wanted it, it's just that I didn't import. How is it cheating when all I did is change them back to the way I had it originally?

Glod · Post by **Glod** » Sat May 04, 2002 3:46 am

Originally posted by island007
Thats how I felt too. I won't do it. It's almost as bad as using traps on spawning areas, cloudkills to kill stationary creatures, pickpocketing Gaxx, x-cap remover, or exploiting an experience bug.

Whoa. All of that stuff you just listed makes encounters trivial and pointless and destroys the game. Well ok the Gaxx thing isnt as bad as that bad but it is pretty bad duping one of the best items. Having Minsc get 2 points in longsword instead of 2 points in 2h sword is not really in that ballpark IMO. Its not like you couldn't just multiplayer and roll up a Minsc clone (minsc's stats are pretty low) and give him a smarter selection of proficiencies. The only difference is you get some dialog.

My first 2 times I just went with what I had to start with. My 3rd time I changed minsc from 2hs to longsword cause I didnt want my PC wielding LS and minsc was the logical next choice. Somehow it didnt make a pointless joke of the game the way cheese like trapping spawn points or getting infinite exp would have.

Thrar · Post by **Thrar** » Sat May 04, 2002 4:15 am

XP-cap-remover is certainly not a cheat for SoA, as it comes with installation of ToB. Neither it is for ToB, imo. it may be harder w/o, but removing XP-cap makes more sense than toning difficulty down.
changing NPC stats/skills however i consider cheating, although minor compared to other stuff done easily with SK. it took me til underdark, but now i have minsc dual-wielding (+++) longswords (++) and MoD if needed. beginning of ToB now, korgan took all the while to get ++ dualwield and ++++ war hammers. next point to grand mastery for all the fun with dwarven thrower and crom, although for korgan it would b much better just putting the 5+ from axes to hammers, as dwarven thrower is better than all the axes in SoA imo (yea u cannot dualwield it, once u wanna do that axes r good), except a certain one only to b used by good aligned chars.

Rav · Post by **Rav** » Sat May 04, 2002 4:26 am

I did but...

Only with Viconia, who had 1 proficiency too few, and Keldorn who was missing 2 proficiencies.

I hate the fact that certain characters are illegal, such as minsc (too low wis to be a ranger) and the aforementioned two.

Rav

Willa_Ly · Post by **Willa_Ly** » Sat May 04, 2002 6:24 am

What's Sk?

Stilgar · Post by **Stilgar** » Sat May 04, 2002 6:48 am

Originally posted by Willa_Ly
What's Sk?

ShadowKeeper, a editing program.
Get it here.

Ode to a Grasshopper · Sat May 04, 2002 6:59 am

If we're really being fair here, it should be mentioned that if you'd imported Minsc, Imoen, Viconia, Edwin and Jaheira from BG1 you'd be able to configure their proficiencies more or less the way you wanted, so it's not "cheating" to alter their proficiencies at the start of SoA at all. And removing the XP cap can hardly be called "cheating", all it does is make it so that you keep getting experience when you earn it, which is only fair. I've never agreed with an XP cap in the first place, same as I've never agreed with the developers decision to nerf the proficiency system.