plz let the new npc be a thief

the Elfstone · Post by **the Elfstone** » Sun Mar 25, 2001 5:17 pm

first time i played BG i dual classed Imoen to a mage early on, when ToSC came out i couldn't get through Durlag's Tower b/c of all of the traps. i've been reading about Throne of Bhaal and the new dungeon Watcher's Keep and i think here we go again, only so many potions of clarity in the game. I don't want to use Jan because i find him annoying but if the new npc isn't a thief i'm going to have to, please let it be a thief...

kopywrite · Post by **kopywrite** » Sun Mar 25, 2001 5:25 pm

Originally posted by the Elfstone:
i couldn't get through Durlag's Tower b/c of all of the traps. i've been reading about Throne of Bhaal and the new dungeon Watcher's Keep and i think here we go again

I thought durlags tower was horrible - way too nasty. It reminded me of the old P&P module the Tomb of Horrors which was just trap after trap after trap. With a demi lich at the end. Great.
So i'm a bit worried about what they're saying Watchers keep is gonna be like. Hopefully they'll throw in some nice fast roleplaying/action bits like did with the werewolf bit of TOTSC.

Dúnadan · Post by **Dúnadan** » Sun Mar 25, 2001 5:28 pm

Sorry to burst your bubble, but I'm pretty sure they said the new NPC would be a Wild Mage.

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President of the World Alliance for the Advancement of Me (W.A.A.M.)

kopywrite · Post by **kopywrite** » Sun Mar 25, 2001 5:34 pm

There are several ways to keep Yoshimo alive if you don't like Jan... the cursed scroll of petrification before you go to spellhold being the one I've tried.

Don't know how Yoshimo still being alive will play out in the expansion though..

the Elfstone · Post by **the Elfstone** » Sun Mar 25, 2001 5:39 pm

d'oh. doesn anyone else find this kind of annoying? Imoen and Nalia are dual classed to early to be effective in a tough dungeon, Jan is, well, Jan, and of course the best thief in Yoshimo, great. unless your PC is a thief, you're basically stuck with a thief/illusionist and now i get to add another mage. don't get me wrong, i love BGII, i'm on my third game now, but its kind of annoying the lack of a good NPC thief.

Savarius · Post by **Savarius** » Sun Mar 25, 2001 6:18 pm

Really though, if you do all the major quests that you can before heading off to Spellhold, Yoshimo is the best NPC thief, and worth the investment in leveling him up. After Spellhold, Imoen certainly does serves as a good trap disarmer, and that's all you really need in the last 2 chapters.

As for the new NPC, Bioware has been very careful and not given anything away, other than a screenshot with a new portrait and the assurance that the NPC will be extremely useful.

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"Ah, home, sweet home... wait a minute... I don't live here." - Jan Jansen

TheHellion · Post by **TheHellion** » Sun Mar 25, 2001 6:18 pm

I would suggest using Imoen if you're not too fond of Jan. There are really only two things that a thief is necessary for, and that's finding traps and picking locks. Imoen can do both of these things very well. The only thiefly areas in which she is lacking are picking pockets and hiding in shadows, which aren't as important. If you really want to backstab someone with her, give her the Night's Gift +5 armor, boots of stealth, and a cloak of Elvenkind.

You'll have yourself a nice mage to boot, which makes her all the more worthwhile. Besides, you'd think that if BioWare is going to be wrapping up the Child of Bhaal saga with the main PC, they'd also offer some finality and closure for Imoen as well. She could be an integral part of the story.

fable · Post by **fable** » Sun Mar 25, 2001 6:22 pm

I don't know, Elfstone. It seems that thieves are rather hobbled in the BG series in any case (though I give 'em credit for creating some interesting activities after you get the thief stronghold). What would be the advantage of a firstclass thief, other than Jan? Nothing more to pickpocket. No special series of traps to remove. No strong incentives to run a thief--unlike, say, P:T, where you could actually weave your way through one solo dungeon and avoid a wealth of attackers if you could hide in shadows effectively. And the game's major thief NPC character, Annah, developed into a first class badass ninja, capable of singlehandedly destroying all the guards in one relatively high area.

I think thieves are generally a matter of awkward treatment in most CRPGs. The single exception really isn't a CRPG at all: the Thief series. Must my opinion.

the Elfstone · Post by **the Elfstone** » Sun Mar 25, 2001 9:05 pm

i agree w/ you Hellion, i played through BGII the first time w/ Imoen as my only thief after Spellhold and I had no problem. but the expansion is going to have a new dungeon, and if its anything like Durlag's Tower, Imoen wont be able to detect half of the traps. Hopefully Bioware keeps that in mind, not another Durlag's Tower plz!!!

Drakron Du´Dark · Post by **Drakron Du´Dark** » Sun Mar 25, 2001 11:50 pm

A few things Durlag's Tower does exist on AD&D PnP, is not a city but a ruin (the story is also the same, Bioware did not make it up [well....maybe a bit, but...].
Now watcher´s keep, I find nothing about it on Amn, so its new (or have a diferent name in PnP, or its in Tethyr).
Imoen can pick almost any lock in the game and desarm any trap(Nalia in the other hand....), hide in shadows and steal, I dont see why that is usefull in open locks or disarm a trap.(hide in shadows, use some type of invible spell or the potion, steal, the potions).
Durlang´s Tower was fine, hard and with puzzles.
Now getting stuck in a island without any temples or cleric help in it on the other hand....(I loved TOSC)

Nick_Dude · Post by **Nick_Dude** » Mon Mar 26, 2001 1:07 am

What's up with everyone disliking Jan? He is a funny guy, and usefull too! I personaly love hearing his stories!

fable · Post by **fable** » Mon Mar 26, 2001 1:14 am

I disliked Jan at first, and refused to take him into my initial party. Come the second time around, I changed my impressions. Jan is really the best thief in the game, if you discount backstabbing. Yes, I know that's valuable, but so is the ability to throw a Magic Missile that prevents an enemy from casting Cloudkill at your forces. What Jan may lack in one-on-one melee, he makes up for with additional mage support, and those trademark skull bolts which can even stun a demon.

He's remained in my third and fourth parties. His dialog's a riot, the actor is great, and the character is an interesting, challenging figure, in my opinion, to strategically play in any party.

TheHellion · Post by **TheHellion** » Mon Mar 26, 2001 1:23 am

Originally posted by fable:
I don't know, Elfstone. It seems that thieves are rather hobbled in the BG series in any case (though I give 'em credit for creating some interesting activities after you get the thief stronghold). What would be the advantage of a firstclass thief, other than Jan? Nothing more to pickpocket. No special series of traps to remove. No strong incentives to run a thief--unlike, say, P:T, where you could actually weave your way through one solo dungeon and avoid a wealth of attackers if you could hide in shadows effectively. And the game's major thief NPC character, Annah, developed into a first class badass ninja, capable of singlehandedly destroying all the guards in one relatively high area.

I think thieves are generally a matter of awkward treatment in most CRPGs. The single exception really isn't a CRPG at all: the Thief series. Must my opinion.

I'm not quite sure I understand what you're getting at, fable. So far, a good thief has been a necessity in the BG series; perhaps not so much for pick pocketing, but what could potentially be lethal traps can only be disarmed by a capable thief. Plenty of useful items can be had from picking a lock here and there as well. From what the folks at BioWare are saying, Watcher's Keep is certainly going to provide plenty for a thief to do.

Bear in mind also that AD&D, and BG in particular, is meant to be played with a party. Somewhat beside the point, but I think this is one of the main reasons that players find it so easy to solo the game. Every character has its place and purpose in the greater whole. Perhaps I'm just misunderstanding, and wasting my breath.

In any case, the Thief series certainly knew how to do it right. It strikes me as very bizarre that these games are critically acclaimed, and yet Looking Glass Studios still went under. What a shame.

Locke Da'averan · Post by **Locke Da'averan** » Mon Mar 26, 2001 2:29 am

Imoen is NOT a good thief, it may take minutes for her to even detect a trap, let alone disarm it. She sucks in pickpocket and hiding in shadows takes about 50 tries to work (you can make that up by using the rings/potions, but there's limited amount of potions, and you can use the ring once/day) She needs atleast mercykiller ring/(the ring that gives 25% to trap detection), pick pocketing gloves, boots of stealth, cloak of elvenkind to be adequate as a thief, and that's a lot of stuff.
Why can't there be a pure thief who DOESN'T die in the middle of the story.

The easiest way to get around this is to make your own thief and use either multiplayer to put him in the game along with your pc or use him/her as a pc.
(Elf with longsword profs rules

)

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There's no drows anywhere near this pla...

sigurd · Post by **sigurd** » Mon Mar 26, 2001 2:40 am

There are to few thieves you say? well, this is true about most classes, i want more fighters for evil parties for example.

There are a few things quite sure about the new NPC, and that is he is almost certinaly a Wild mage, as well as neutral.

My guess is it might just be Volo, but then again, he might be too famous. Also, isnt he a bard?

TheHellion · Post by **TheHellion** » Mon Mar 26, 2001 2:47 am

Originally posted by Locke Da'averan:
Imoen is NOT a good thief, it may take minutes for her to even detect a trap, let alone disarm it. She sucks in pickpocket and hiding in shadows takes about 50 tries to work (you can make that up by using the rings/potions, but there's limited amount of potions, and you can use the ring once/day) She needs atleast mercykiller ring/(the ring that gives 25% to trap detection), pick pocketing gloves, boots of stealth, cloak of elvenkind to be adequate as a thief, and that's a lot of stuff.
Why can't there be a pure thief who DOESN'T die in the middle of the story.

The easiest way to get around this is to make your own thief and use either multiplayer to put him in the game along with your pc or use him/her as a pc.
(Elf with longsword profs rules )

Imoen's find traps ability is 85%, which isn't shabby at all. I used her as my only thief throughout the game, and had no trouble whatsoever detecting and removing any and all traps I came across. FYI, it's the ring of danger sense that grants +25% to find traps, which in Imoen's case, whould bump her up to 110%.

kopywrite · Post by **kopywrite** » Mon Mar 26, 2001 3:35 am

Originally posted by sigurd:

There are a few things quite sure about the new NPC, and that is he is almost certinaly a Wild mage, as well as neutral.

My guess is it might just be Volo, but then again, he might be too famous. Also, isnt he a bard?

Volo's a low level mage (theres another thread kicking around here somewhere that talks about this).
There is already a wild mage in BG2, namely one of the githyanki that ambush you after leaving the underdark - well he says he a wild mage but that battle is normally quite frantic for me so I couldnt tell if any of his spells were 'wild'

Havent the developers said the new npc is someone that's already been in the game? My guess and preferred choice would be Saemon - he has the best dialogues in the entire game IMHO.

Robin_Hood · Post by **Robin_Hood** » Mon Mar 26, 2001 6:46 am

There was a thread about this new NPC...back then, my guess was Saemon too. Even thought of Ribald but guess he's retired. Why not Volo, after all, he may have practised and become a tough mage

Someone mentioned Solaufein who escaped Ust'Natha...that would be interesting, no?

Robin Hood

TheDude · Post by **TheDude** » Mon Mar 26, 2001 7:12 am

Originally posted by Robin_Hood:
Someone mentioned Solaufein who escaped Ust'Natha...that would be interesting, no?

That would a goood choise.
I also thought of Solaufein being the new npc. (when i let him live in Ust'Natha i thought that it wouldn't be the last time i would see him)
I think he is going to be a great character able to keep the drow items even if u got in to the sunlight.

That would be cool

kopywrite · Post by **kopywrite** » Mon Mar 26, 2001 7:23 am

Although the drow guy (wont even try and spell it) was a memorable character I dont think the developers would have 2 rogue dark elves as pcs. Also would he be able to be a wild mage? I assume from his avatar that he's some sort of fighter/mage... unless they allow multiclass wild mages like illusionists... blah blah blah etc.