Where can I find a challenge?!

#Apocalypse# · Post by **#Apocalypse#** » Mon Mar 26, 2001 6:41 am

Hya, I'm playing BG2 for the first time now and I'm almost done in the Underdark, but I haven't had any difficult fights yet. Those dragons are easy, the demi lich is peanuts and all those other dudes too. So can anyone please tell me when a real challenge comes? IMHO BG1 was much more difficult.
As a matter of facts the opponents are so easy that I don't even cast my mage spells, because it would be a waste. Please help me, maybe I missed some strong opponents

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Just hack & slash it.

Kovi · Post by **Kovi** » Mon Mar 26, 2001 6:57 am

Yes, the game is easy. You can increase the difficulty (not much difference), play solo (still too easy for most classes) and choose a couple of additional rules like in those in the "harcore rule": [url="http://www.gamebanshee.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/002733.html"]http://www.gamebanshee.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/002733.html[/url]

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Mon Mar 26, 2001 7:38 am

One of the more, if not the most, difficult fight is the Twisted Rune. Try that one if you haven't already.

Still, the game is supposed to be a challenge the whole way through. What kind of party are you playing? I used to put together the "strongest" party possible, i e Korgan as a fighter, Viconia as a cleric, Edwin as a mage and so on. The game gets easy that way. Now, I concentrate more on having NPCs I really like, equipping them with weapons I think go together with their classes RPG-wise (and not necessarily the "best" ones; Celestial Fury has for example no place in my party explained below, neither do I plan to use Crom Fayer). This has made BG 2 a completely new game for me, and a much more rewarding one for sure. My current party consists of:

PC half-elven Bard (true class)
Anomen
Jan
Cernd
Nalia
Aerie

As you can see, I am very strong in magic and priest spells. However, Anomen is my only fighter, and a dual class at that. Over all, I've tried to put together NPCs people find "weak". The party still rocks but it takes some planning and preparation before going into tougher battles, thus making BG 2 more challenging.

Blobbas · Post by **Blobbas** » Mon Mar 26, 2001 8:35 am

Take a look at this topic: [url="http://www.gamebanshee.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/002915.html"]http://www.gamebanshee.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/002915.html[/url]

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The Killermachine, mighty member of the Council of Mages

Hannwaas · Post by **Hannwaas** » Mon Mar 26, 2001 11:40 am

I've made an exact copy of Cernd to solo with (i.e. stats, sounds, portrait, proficiencies, equipment etc), and it's quite a challenge. Cernds dexterity sucks and I can't wear armor, so my AC isn't the best.

BTW, according to the starup tips I must be level 14 to get my druid stronghold. Does that mean I have to do the quest when I'm lvl 14 or can I do it earlier and get the stronghold later??

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Av var och en efter förmåga.
Åt var och en efter behov.

fable · Post by **fable** » Mon Mar 26, 2001 1:04 pm

Definitely, the Twisted Rune Gang. If you beat 'em without spells, then I'd like to hear the stats, levels, and items on the party you use.

kopywrite · Post by **kopywrite** » Mon Mar 26, 2001 1:15 pm

Does protection from magic scroll count as a spell? That and a few other bits are all I need

frelic · Post by **frelic** » Mon Mar 26, 2001 1:20 pm

so, did you find the illithid and beholder dungeons easy in the underdark.

I thought the beholder stuff was easy while I carried Balduran's shield, but then the elder orb casts imprisonment (and my PC was holding the shield). The illithids I thought were hard if you didn't use summoned monsters (especially the brain part).

But I'd agree, there aren't too many challenges. Try taking out the entire drow city without resting. Since I was entirely disappointed with the demon knights, I think I'm going to let 3 pit fiends loose in Ust'Natha and see what happens.

Definitely BG1 was harder. No instant kill anything - everything was a drag out fight - and if you got poisoned, it meant something.

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Mon Mar 26, 2001 1:24 pm

Hannwaas; Yes, you can free the grove and then come back later to get the stronghold.

kopywrite · Post by **kopywrite** » Mon Mar 26, 2001 1:30 pm

Originally posted by frelic:

Definitely BG1 was harder. No instant kill anything - everything was a drag out fight - and if you got poisoned, it meant something.

Ive said this before and ill probably say it again

but the first bit of BG1 when you're tramping around the wilderness is the hardest part of any BG game.

That party you meet after the Nashkel mines still give me nightmares...

kopywrite · Post by **kopywrite** » Mon Mar 26, 2001 1:31 pm

well that and durlags tower (shudder)

vbarash · Post by **vbarash** » Mon Mar 26, 2001 4:35 pm

Currently started playing again after a LONG break; most characters are around level 16, which is expected in CH.6, PC: priest of Talos level 20.
As soon as I restarted I went on a "victory" run: Firkraag, Shadow Dragon, Kangaxx. The only real problem was Kangaxx (by problem I mean not a 1st/2nd try kill), and he was a problem beacuse I forgot about the slayer change.
Yet it is not these monsters that I found hard, but the infinite bugs and quirks in the game:
- random things prevent me from finishing quests (like Red cloth quest - after a while I decided its not worth it)
- most of my item parts were lost (????????) right after I left the underdark: result - no Crom Fayer, no Wave, no Vorpal sword, no Equalizer.

Suggestion to apocalypse: try playing the game without any of these god-like items
Btw, what r your characters?

TheHellion · Post by **TheHellion** » Mon Mar 26, 2001 8:36 pm

Personally, I'm getting really sick and tired of all the people stroking their egos by putting up yet another post about how easy BG2 is, as if there just aren't enough of them around. I'm not convinced.

The vast majority of these people that think the game is too "easy" are gipping themselves. BioWare's got nothing to do with it.

If you remove the experience point cap, of course the game's going to be a piece of cake. Your problem, not BG2's.
If you pick the most powerful class combination possible, equip him/her with the most powerful items in the game, and play solo (therefore soaking up experience too quickly), it's going to be easy. Isn't that a given? No reason for you to tell all of us. Over and over and over.
If you exploit the game's AI, you're probably going to find tough monsters pretty easy. I don't knock "cheaters" for using these exploits; as long as they're having fun, that's all that matters. But don't gip yourselves and then complain to us.
I'm an @$$hole. A complete and total @$$hole. And I don't believe for a minute that you people are soloing the game with beastmasters and wizard slayers with all 3s for stats. I think you're liars. I think you're @$$holes.

I realize that some people are just uber-1337, and despite your best efforts, the game just can't challenge you. If that's you, please take no offense at my flame. Otherwise, I hope Irenicus laughs in your face when your 17th level beastmaster gets swatted aside like a gnat. Provided you make it that far.

Giles the Sorcerer · Post by **Giles the Sorcerer** » Mon Mar 26, 2001 8:41 pm

If ya want a challenge. Don't use cheese tactics that exploit lack or forsight or stupidity on the programmers part. Don't use traps on dragons, don't use buffing spells in advance. Don't lure people out cause the yare too stupid to to stay together etc.

The Outsider · Post by **The Outsider** » Mon Mar 26, 2001 10:50 pm

The 'no buffing in advance' rule is a nice idea, but takes away from gameplay. C'mon, you're about to wander into a dragon's den- I think that any priest in your party would be praying heavily (thus bless and chant; others by extension)

two · Post by **two** » Thu Apr 05, 2001 9:29 am

Originally posted by TheHellion:
Personally, I'm getting really sick and tired of all the people stroking their egos by putting up yet another post about how easy BG2 is, as if there just aren't enough of them around. I'm not convinced.

The vast majority of these people that think the game is too "easy" are gipping themselves. BioWare's got nothing to do with it.

If you remove the experience point cap, of course the game's going to be a piece of cake. Your problem, not BG2's.

If you pick the most powerful class combination possible, equip him/her with the most powerful items in the game, and play solo (therefore soaking up experience too quickly), it's going to be easy. Isn't that a given? No reason for you to tell all of us. Over and over and over.

If you exploit the game's AI, you're probably going to find tough monsters pretty easy. I don't knock "cheaters" for using these exploits; as long as they're having fun, that's all that matters. But don't gip yourselves and then complain to us.

I'm an @$$hole. A complete and total @$$hole. And I don't believe for a minute that you people are soloing the game with beastmasters and wizard slayers with all 3s for stats. I think you're liars. I think you're @$$holes.

I realize that some people are just uber-1337, and despite your best efforts, the game just can't challenge you. If that's you, please take no offense at my flame. Otherwise, I hope Irenicus laughs in your face when your 17th level beastmaster gets swatted aside like a gnat. Provided you make it that far.

I am one who has complained in the past about BGII's easiness, let my explain why.
First time through, not reading any guides or anything (not any web sites either), I quickly learned the "web/cloudkill" strategy for spellcasters. It's an obvious strategy, along with the cloudkill/close door one. So I used it a lot not thinking it was "cheesy" at all since it's obvious and effective. I assumed you were supposed to; I thought the game was designed that way. When i hit the Black dragon I cast about 5 cloud kills from a distance thinking it would soften up the dragon and then I'd run in and battle. Imagine my suprise when it died! I was pleased, thinking I was very smart, not realizing I had missed a great battle.

Similarly when my main char (a Monk) got higher level (14) I noticed he hardly ever got hit, killed everything, was immune to lots. My well-balanced party did little else but watch him cruise around killing, giving occasional support here and there.

I did not make Crom F, I did not even know of the Guarded compound or the liches at all, no great weapons, just normal amateur gameplay. And by the underdark i was bored silly -- to easy.

That's my complaint. They took fun battles away from a newbie! I'm NOT super-brilliant, but I am a decent strategist that will maximize what spells and abilities I have. I just wish Bioware had made it tougher for a total newbie. Of COURSE it's insanely simple if you use lots of guides, get the best weapons/classes, etc. That's NOT the point. The POINT is that it was easy for somebody that knew NOTHING but did some common-sense things.

That's it. My complaint in a nutshell.

fable · Post by **fable** » Thu Apr 05, 2001 9:42 am

Two, you assumed that it was appropriate to cast Cloudkills while a dragon stood immobile, never responding? I figured it was a bug from the first. No potential enemy should simply stand there while you cast a lethal spell at 'im. And I never understood why they didn't fix this--but it seemed cheesy to me to take advantage of the thing. (No offense meant.)

I have to agree with TheHellion that the game is far less easy if it isn't being "cheesed." If a player doesn't use potions of master thievery to buy and steal the same items, or to get full wands, or apply all the strategies learned up here, or use SK to improve your character or remove the exp cap, BG2 isn't a simple skip-through. I played it the first time on the second day it hit the stores, and nobody at the time, on the boards, was scoffing about how easy the thing was.

[This message has been edited by fable (edited 04-05-2001).]

Kovi · Post by **Kovi** » Thu Apr 05, 2001 10:27 am

Interesting posts, anyway I have similar experience. From the first minute I was looking for effective strategies, but many of them proved to be "too effective" and removed the challenge. So I soon started to created "hardcore rules" for myself. When I "hit" the web I realized that others have similar problems, so I created a couple of posts in these topics.

two · Post by **two** » Thu Apr 05, 2001 11:13 am

Originally posted by fable:
Two, you assumed that it was appropriate to cast Cloudkills while a dragon stood immobile, never responding? I figured it was a bug from the first. No potential enemy should simply stand there while you cast a lethal spell at 'im. And I never understood why they didn't fix this--but it seemed cheesy to me to take advantage of the thing. (No offense meant.)

I have to agree with TheHellion that the game is far less easy if it isn't being "cheesed." If a player doesn't use potions of master thievery to buy and steal the same items, or to get full wands, or apply all the strategies learned up here, or use SK to improve your character or remove the exp cap, BG2 isn't a simple skip-through. I played it the first time on the second day it hit the stores, and nobody at the time, on the boards, was scoffing about how easy the thing was.
[This message has been edited by fable (edited 04-05-2001).]

I'm sorry, in that case BioWare owes me some serious cash. I assumed when I bought the game I was the PLAYER not the DESIGNER. I did not play BGI before BGII. I was a total newbie. How the heck am I supposed to "know" cloudkill is overpowered? Some monsters attack when hit by it (mind flayers), some don't (dragons). Isn't that part of the game design?

I didn't use the steal/pickpocket strategies at all, not liking thieves much. But I DID use the scrolls of undead and magic protection -- in fact I felt pretty smart in discovering them in the store, reading their descriptions, buying them, and saving them for the right moments (Bodhi's lair, Final Battle, etc.). Of COURSE I killed the Red dragon using cloudkill spells, LOTS of them I think 12? Worked for the black, what the heck, try it out. How AM I supposed to know it's cheesy? And NO it wasn't as much fun as when I did it straight on my second time.

Imagine my surprise to discover some of my most basic strategies were "cheese!" I had no idea. Remember, these are NOT obscure strategies. Spell, close door. Basic. Web, cloudkill, web. Basic. Maybe I just got lucky in discovering them (but another poster already said his experience was similar).

My only point is this, IT WASN'T as FUN as it SHOULD have been because it was too EASY.

Now, if they had only included a slip of paper saying "make sure to handicap yourself in various ways for more fun, don't use various spells/items legally found in the game, etc." it might be a different story.

And please stop brining up this "soloing is easier" canard (previous post not this one). Yes soloing you hit the xp max in Chapter 2-3. BUT you hit the max with a 3-4 character parties in chapters 3-4, even with a 5-6 character party you are level 15+ in the underdark, which is way way enough xp for everyone to thrash the game. Listen, if ONE character maxxed out can take on the game, obviously 3 maxxed out characters is 3x overkill. This depends somewhat on what characters you run, as long as you have a few pure characters you will maxx it.

fable · Post by **fable** » Thu Apr 05, 2001 11:39 am

I get what you mean, Two. I don't necessarily agree, but...I see where you're coming from, especially if you hadn't played any of the Bioware games before. And I do think they should have put in a mode that removed most of the potions, ward spells, and wands from the game. They really unbalance things.