another odd problem

Odonatathrope · Post by **Odonatathrope** » Thu Jun 06, 2002 5:55 pm

I was so looking forward to maxing my assassin's agility. But here's the problem--something seems buggy with the level multiplier. I'm at 95, so I went looking to raise ten agility skills. Ended up raising light armor twice, marksman once, and practicing sneak for seven levels. Should get the X5, as I have through the entire game, right? Wrong -- no multiplier at all. Perplexed, I ended up raising endurance and tried again the next level. Same problem. I thought maybe this was something to do with maxing abilities, but speed maxed from 95 to 100 with a X5. Other multipliers in other attributes (i.e., X2, X3) are showing up. Any ideas? Should I (justifiably) console this up?

Sirius_Sam · Post by **Sirius_Sam** » Thu Jun 06, 2002 9:45 pm

If you know that you should get the increase and didn't, I really don't see a problem with justifiably using the console for that

If you feel bad about it, then just give yourself +2 or +3 and max it next level.

S_S

A3GiR · Post by **A3GiR** » Thu Jun 06, 2002 11:39 pm

i had same king of problems..
sometimes i get x5 bonus for a few level..then for some unknown reasons i dont get it for 1 level..while i did exactly same things as before..and i wasn t at 100 in my capacity i wanted to raise..(agi,int,str ect..)

also i got a x5 bonus in personnality when i paid a trainer to gain 5 levels in Illusion..weird again..i didn t raised other skillz involving personnality..
bugs?

Odonatathrope · Post by **Odonatathrope** » Fri Jun 07, 2002 9:35 am

Ended up using the console, figuring it was justified. Didn't think it would be fair to lose 4 levels (and twenty attribute points) for something that seemed to be a bug. Of course, some would say that exploiting "practiceable" skills amounts to the same as consoling in bonuses, but I don't buy that. The way I see it, if I was in Morrowind and I wanted to be better at sneaking, I'd find some harmless soul and try to sneak up on 'em until I got good at it. If I wanted to be better with a shield, I'd find a stupid little kwama forager, sheath my sword, and let the little bugger try and get by my blocks. Same goes for practicing spells, etc., IMHO. Seems true to roleplaying form to me.

fable · Post by **fable** » Fri Jun 07, 2002 9:55 am

I'm wondering if your level doesn't affect the multipliers. In each character I've started, it took very little early in "their life" to get a 5x or 4x. Later on, 3x and 2x were much more common, and then 3x vanished.

Odonatathrope · Post by **Odonatathrope** » Fri Jun 07, 2002 10:00 am

@fable - I don't think so. Since I began the game, I was levelling agility and speed in tandem. Since most of my major/minors were agility skills, I would level up on agility (eg., 10 advances in light armor/sneak/marksman) and also get 10 advances in speed (generally through stripping off the armour and going hand-to-hand with weaker foes). Thus, each level I would get X5 in each (the third point always went into luck). I would just tick off the number of level-ups in agi and spd skills, made sure I had 10 spd before I hit the last agi and leveled (sometimes I had to stand with a shield blocking (miscellaneous) to up agi if another skill like security had gone up and pushed me closer to leveling). This worked perfectly until I was at 95 in spd and agi. On the last level-up, I got x5 spd and NO multiplier for agi. Nothing I could do could get me any multiplier. So, alas, console.

Sirius_Sam · Post by **Sirius_Sam** » Fri Jun 07, 2002 10:31 am

I did the 'correct' thing with my last character and got the x5 END every early level until I had it maxed-out, for the HP boost. I also remember I had some problems getting the x5/4/3 multipliers for some stats later in the char's career unless I actually trained them up (just couldn't seem to get the x5 *shrug*). I guess I thought that training fixed it or I didn't worry too much about getting the higher mods...

BTW: <rant> It's kinda stupid for an RPG to base a primary stat (END) on skills that you would never actually use if you were trying to RP a non-fighter/hunter character. It's worked out ok for me with the assassin (because I'm now wearing Med. armor), but my future Breton Mage is gonna feel like a dork wandering around in full plate, carrying a big knife-on-a-stick...all so I can have a few extra HP to cover my butt in a firefight

</rant>

S_S

Odonatathrope · Post by **Odonatathrope** » Fri Jun 07, 2002 10:49 am

I agree somewhat. Athletics would have been a good choice for endurance for those who don't wish to don the heaviest armor or fight with a knife on a stick. That being said, haven't mages always been the intellectual bookworms rather than the high-HP juggernauts (i.e., is this so much different from a d4 vs. a d10)?

Since you ran into the same kind of thing, I'm wondering if maybe fable is right -- perhaps the game alters multipliers once you max an attribute? I know 5x multipliers are still possible (I tested that out), but perhaps it begins to limit the number of attributes that can have multipliers, starting with the highest? For example, on level-up, a player has 10 skill-raises in agility, 10 in speed, and 4 in strength. If no attribute is maxed, than that player has X5 multipliers in speed and agility plus a x2 multiplier in strength. However, perhaps if another attribute is already at 100, he now only gets the lower two multipliers (the x2 plus one x5)? Anyone know about this?

Sirius_Sam · Post by **Sirius_Sam** » Fri Jun 07, 2002 11:18 am

It sounds possible, we know it's already coded to detect highest/lowest stats (ie. Bittercup). It would be nice to know for sure if it's a feature or game bug, though. Character planning has to be altered to accomodate this info.

And I agree that the END thing is sorta like d4 vs. d10, but the lack of a party forces almost every character created in Morrowind to be a J-O-T or a 'cheesemeister'. If you are your own tank, then you need the HP. I really wish Bethsoft would have, at least, allowed retro HP gain with higher END after it was increased instead of forcing all early characters to pump the stat with skills they won't even use later...

S_S

fable · Post by **fable** » Fri Jun 07, 2002 11:19 am

BTW: <rant> It's kinda stupid for an RPG to base a primary stat (END) on skills that you would never actually use if you were trying to RP a non-fighter/hunter character.

I try not to think about the attribute-based system too much. Agility effects how much you avoid attacks, and how well you attack. So what attributes are raised by Axes, Spears and Tantos? Strength, Endurance, and Speed, respectively.

Odonatathrope · Post by **Odonatathrope** » Fri Jun 07, 2002 11:28 am

@S_S:

Well, Bethsoft has sort of accomodated those who feel the need to be tanks with the Lady birthsign--I certainly took advantage of it!

Sirius_Sam · Post by **Sirius_Sam** » Fri Jun 07, 2002 11:41 am

Heh...yeah, my brother took that sign too, for his character

I still feel it's a compromise, though. *shrug* I'll get over it

S_S

Sirius_Sam · Post by **Sirius_Sam** » Fri Jun 07, 2002 11:43 am

@Fable:

>>>I try not to think about the attribute-based system too much.<<<

That's probably the best way of dealing with it...I'm gonna give that a shot

S_S

Crosswind · Post by **Crosswind** » Fri Jun 07, 2002 1:15 pm

I'm not entirely sure why everybody feels the need to have 100 endurance...my assassin has about 45 and has never had trouble.

Granted, he's not an ungodly, game-dominating, I'm-going-to-go-complain-that-this-game-is-too-easy character either.

Maybe there's a connection...ya think?

-Cross

cjdevito · Post by **cjdevito** » Fri Jun 07, 2002 1:53 pm

I've said it before, I'll say it again. You're going to make at least level 50 in this game, if not 60. Even at 4 hp per level, that's 200-240 HP. Honest, that's plenty enough for anyone.

Sirius_Sam · Post by **Sirius_Sam** » Fri Jun 07, 2002 2:27 pm

Originally posted by Crosswind
I'm not entirely sure why everybody feels the need to have 100 endurance...my assassin has about 45 and has never had trouble.

Granted, he's not an ungodly, game-dominating, I'm-going-to-go-complain-that-this-game-is-too-easy character either.

Maybe there's a connection...ya think?

-Cross

Well...Duh!

Thanks for the judgement and feedback, Cross. Your two cents regarding the 'proper' way to RP Morrowind is terribly refreshing. I stand corrected. Why I or others would ever want to maximize the efficiency of our characters through the accumulation of HP by gaining END is beyond me

. I should just be happy to 'never have trouble'.

Thanks for opening my eyes to good roleplaying. I'll just take my 'ungodly, game-dominating, I'm-going-to-go-complain-that-this-game-is-too-easy' mindset and go play DiabloII

.

It's natural to want to fully realize the potential of a character, at least the first time through any game. Those of us who haven't finished the game yet because we're having fun exploring the gameworld and trying to maximize our character builds are just now discovering how easy the game is at higher levels, yet still want to adventure with a character we've spent weeks identifying with. Forgive us for our non-purist, blasphemous, anti-RP beliefs...we should've just asked you first since you've made some sort of 'connection' between sloppy character development and the fun-factor of role-playing games.

S_S