Long term help needed!

Littiz · Post by **Littiz** » Mon Jun 24, 2002 2:05 pm

I seek the help of those who beared my posts in the past, so that
they somehow know my style of play!

Problem: the usual, party composition!
At the moment I'm running three "parellel" parties, one in ToB
already... They proceed VERY slowly of course!
I'm planning a run through the game (definitive I think, for a while...unless the
Imoen mod comes out too!

) again with my Neutral-SuperGood,
female, Kensai/Mage!
I'd want this as the "perfect run", with all the mods installed,
when Return to Windspear will be ready (this seems really a golden
mod...)
I want to be as heavy as possible on roleplay, but also have some
needs... so I don't know for the life of mine who to take along.
Needs: Has to be a FOUR men (or women..) party, in ToB they'll become
five with the new NPC...
Imoen will replace Yoshimo.
So TWO NPCs remain......

Some examples of my doubts....

Viconia: being an outcast, my char would probably take her along,
to help her survive and finding her way, or to watch her actions..
BUT, I know I won't convert her to neutral without the romance!
Also one of the two slots for a cleric is a bit wasted, IMHO.

Keldorn: Never had him till the end of ToB... They all talk wonders
about him and his own ending.
My char (a goody goody girl) may effectively want the help and the
guidance of an older paladin...
BUT, this would mean taking him from his family....

Anomen: naaaaaahhhh

Nalia: naaaaaaahhhh... let's just leave her SAFE with her Auntie.

Aerie: really redundant in any case. But it breaks my heart
everytime to leave her in that tent!!!

It's clear that that isn't her place.
Again, I could say that it is for her "safety"...

Jan: there could be some merit. But I don't need him.
For my char probably it would be simply a funny encounter
(where she protects him from guards of course... he's only trying
to survive)

Mazzy: Never taken her. I free her, so it would be somewhat
fitting to take her with me.. also she really wants to fight evil,
and, unlike Nalia, she seems prepared to it.
BUT.. I rescue Imoen immediatly so I would find her too late...
also I won't need another straight fighter!

Hmmm as you see I'm confused..
I've already played with only Me + Imoen + Npc in ToB, so nobody
is really needed for my play, in the end I can choose any
of them... so who???
I'll be glad to receive your suggestions!!!

Of course a LITTLE contrast in the party would be fun...

VonDondu · Post by **VonDondu** » Mon Jun 24, 2002 4:09 pm

I think you're worrying too much about your party composition. As far as I'm concerned, every NPC is worth taking along, if only for their dialogue. You need to make a decision, stick with it, and enjoy the game.

Having said that, here are some suggestions.

You've got a Kensai/Mage and Imoen in your party, and you want to add two more NPCs, right? (When Imoen is kidnapped, you'll have Yoshimo in your party, but you'll replace him with Imoen after you rescue her. That's a good plan.) Well, that gives you two Mages and enough thieving skills to get by, so I suggest that you add one "tank" (your Kensai is going to be casting spells some of the time, right?) and one Cleric to your party. Let's see who could fit the bill.

If you want two characters who will be with you until the end, you should consider Minsc and Jaheira. Jaheira is a good Fighter, and don't forget that Minsc can cast some cool spells, including Cure Light Wounds, Insect Swarm, Call Lightning, Doom, Armor of Faith, etc. Imoen, Minsc, and Jaheira would make a great set of companions, and if you added the "TOB NPC" to your group, it would really spice things up. An alternative to Minsc and Jaheira is to have Minsc and Aerie--they make a great pair.

You might also consider taking Keldorn and Anomen. Anomen would provide you with an interesting role-playing opportunity because of the romance (your character is female, right?) as well as his personal sub-plot. Both of them are powerful warriors as well as spell-casters.

I know what you said about taking Keldorn:

Originally posted by Littiz
Keldorn: ...They all talk wonders about him and his own ending.
My char (a goody goody girl) may effectively want the help and the guidance of an older paladin... BUT, this would mean taking him from his family...

I rationalized taking him away from his family like this: my main character has Charisma of 18 (natural, unmodified), so she can use her incredible powers of persuasion to convince Keldorn and his wife that her quest is worthy of his involvement. She can also convince Keldorn to stay by his wife's side when the quest is over. Keldorn's presence is a tremendous comfort to my character, and he's a great guardian who makes sure she never strays from the path of righteousness. One alternative is to dismiss Keldorn when you're finished with Irenicus and replace him with the "TOB NPC" (keeping only four members in your party). Or if you want five party members in TOB, you could replace him with Jan for some great dialogue.

I don't want to create any more dilemmas for you by making any more suggestions. So here's a recap:

Kensai/Mage
Imoen (Yoshimo)
Minsc
Jaheira or Aerie
plus "TOB NPC" (later)

-OR-

Kensai/Mage
Imoen (Yoshimo)
Keldorn (can be dismissed at end of Shadows of Amn or replaced with Jan)
Anomen
plus "TOB NPC" (later)

JackOfClubs · Post by **JackOfClubs** » Mon Jun 24, 2002 7:20 pm

@Littiz
I would have to concur that Minsc and Jaheira seem to be the best fit for your specifications. Besides all of the excellent reasons given above, you pretty much have to rescue them in from Irenicus' dungeon if you are role-playing a good character. It just makes sense to keep them in the party afterward.

I know just what you mean about leaving Aerie behind. I usually solve the problem by getting her involved with the Haer'Dalis romance and leaving them in the theater just before she decides to come back to my main character. I am not sure if this would work with a female PC but you could justify it on the basis that they look like a good couple even if they haven't got around to realizing it yet...

Aubrey · Post by **Aubrey** » Tue Jun 25, 2002 1:20 am

Littiz,

Keldorn is one of my favourite NPC's -- I believe you know it

And his True Sight is a very handy ability you can't easily overlook.

Good luck with your choice -- whatever this will be

Cheers

serjeLeBlade · Post by **serjeLeBlade** » Tue Jun 25, 2002 4:07 am

If you like Aerie, don't want Viconia, and don't want Anomen, you should just take Aerie! What's the problem? Clerics are useful in many ways, any party should have one imo. ("Turning undead anyone... ?")

Plus, the very idea of playing SOA without Minsc gives me a weird feeling...

You, Yoshi/Imoen, Aerie and Minsc sounds a well balanced and fun to play party in my opinion.

Alternatively, aren't you interested in some of the npc of the mods?
(You say you want all the mods installed but mentions none of them... like Solaufein etc, I mean...)

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Tue Jun 25, 2002 4:58 am

As for Mazzy, you could free her and leave the rest of the Shadow Lord quest til after the rescue of Imoen.

Littiz · Post by **Littiz** » Tue Jun 25, 2002 7:07 am

Thanx for the replays guys!

Hmmm, the point is, I'm looking for something really credible
but also new... Maybe I'm getting close!

-Minsc is a little boring for me (though I love his last line
when you face Irenicus in Hell!! Great!!)
But he's totally stupid and unwise, so I think my char wouldn't
take him along, bringing the good old pal to certain death!

-Jaheira is another one I don't want so much in this game, though
leaving her behind is more difficult to justify (of course I free
them both from the dungeon, anyway..)
Maybe I'll be forced to take her...

I admit I'd like a party with both Viconia and Keldorn,
as I'm always trying to redeem people... also I'd want to
calm down Keldorn, who's too much Lawful and unmercyful!!!
With the ToB-NPC, this would perfect!
So three questions:

Is it true that with a high Charisma I can prevent the fight between them?
@Aubrey, you like him so much, so how do you justify the fact that you force him out of his home? (I read what you said VonDondu, but I'm speaking about the PC who makes the choice..)
@Astafas: if I take Mazzy and go for Imoen, won't she complain about terminating the Shadow Lord quest? Same question for Keldorn... I would finish the Eye only after the Underdark!

I'm trying Sola right now, but he's another fighter/mage and a bit
too powerful...
Following the story though, I should really take him!
Damn, if I was TRULY roleplaying I'd end with a party of 30 people!!

Oh, and welcome to my "comrade" serje!

serjeLeBlade · Post by **serjeLeBlade** » Tue Jun 25, 2002 7:42 am

Originally posted by Littiz

Is it true that with a high Charisma I can prevent the fight between them?

@Aubrey, you like him so much, so how do you justify the fact that you force him out of his home? (I read what you said VonDondu, but I'm speaking about the PC who makes the choice..)

@Astafas: if I take Mazzy and go for Imoen, won't she complain about terminating the Shadow Lord quest? Same question for Keldorn... I would finish the Eye only after the Underdark!

I'm trying Sola right now, but he's another fighter/mage and a bit
too powerful...
Following the story though, I should really take him!
Damn, if I was TRULY roleplaying I'd end with a party of 30 people!!

Oh, and welcome to my "comrade" serje!

Grazie

And ... bye bye Korea we'll just miss you soooo much

Speaking of the 30-people party, in my first game of SOA i actually kept swapping some 10 characters in and out of the group, including Aerie, Keldorn, Viconia, Jaheira, Minsc, Jan and Nalia. I had Nalia's Keep, just "invited" people there, gave them rooms, and went to ask for their help from quest to quest choosing the ones who best fitted the quest at hand.
I found it to be very fun, and very satisfying from the rpg point of view. The characters suffered a little in xp and level gaining... but I'm no power-gamer, I'm a pnp rpg veteran!

(I would be glad to hear any comments abaut this approach)

About the Viconia/Keldorn problem, I read somewhere that they won't fight each other in TOB. So, you may consider summoning one of the two just once you get to TOB.

(ehm.. another example of my silly approach to experience levels, I suppose...)

Aubrey · Post by **Aubrey** » Tue Jun 25, 2002 7:52 am

@Aubrey, you like him so much, so how do you justify the fact that you force him out of his home? (I read what you said VonDondu, but I'm speaking about the PC who makes the choice..)

My dear friend, Littiz,

The very first time I played the game I left him at home to keep company to his wife. But, imagine my surprise when I discovered that instead of being at home, he was standing in the quarters of the Order of the Most Radiant Heart waiting... for something more interesting, perhaps?

So, since he can't really stay at home, why not taking him along? I'm telling you again: his True Sight and Dispel Magic abilities rock! Not to mention what a nice comrade he is.

@ serjeLeBlade --

And ... bye bye Korea we'll just miss you soooo much

He he he he!

Cheers

Ode to a Grasshopper · Tue Jun 25, 2002 8:46 am

Take Aerie and do the Haer'Dalis triangle thing. He will at some point ask you to 'step aside', so to speak, when he asks you to let him have Aerie just agree to stay out of it, and ditch them both in the same place so that they can be together, keep Minsc around and have him accept Aerie as his witch, then you can leave him to look after his witch and know you did the "right' thing.

Nomer · Post by **Nomer** » Tue Jun 25, 2002 9:47 am

I used Mazzy all the way through SOA and ToB. She is good with her bow. I also gave her the boots of Phasing, with two swords. That worked very well. I did keep Yoshimo, til I got Imoen back. Tried Jan for a bit, but he bugged me. Used Aerie, most of the time too.

Littiz · Post by **Littiz** » Tue Jun 25, 2002 2:09 pm

And ... bye bye Korea we'll just miss you soooo much

Come on pal, we have to be fair and honourable in such moments!

Highlight for Littiz's TRUE words after South Korea-Germany:
AH AH AH!! BEN VI STA, brutti @#!&$%#!!!!!
Vi piacerebbe un arbitro che segnasse per voi, eh?!?!?!
GODO GODO GODO GODO GODO GODO GODO !!!!
AH AH AH AH AH AH AH!!!!!!!!!

Er, Ah-ehm,

, *cough*.... back on topic...
Problem almost solved, this is what this char REALLY would do!
Every friend, good pal, or whatever, left home...this is a personal
and dangerous thing!
Viconia taken to save her and guide her!
Keldorn, well, it is HE, being so honourable, who will want to
protect a goody girl so terribly in danger, no matter what!

I'll try to turn him to Neutral-Good, you know
Imoen, there are countless plot reason to keep her.
New NPC in ToB, in line with the others!
Eheheheheh

I'll have some problems with quest timing, and I hope Keldorn
and Viconia won't fight to death!
I'll try with very high Charisma... Someone can confirm it works?
Reloads may also help

Anyone knows if Keldorn complains about terminating the Unseeing Eye quest?

@Ode: takin' a female, I won't be romancin Aerie or another chick!
Though yes, I know, we could HACK our way through this, shame on us!

Aubrey · Post by **Aubrey** » Tue Jun 25, 2002 3:42 pm

Littiz,

First of all I'd like a translation of your Italian outburst -- by sending a pm possibly?

(It was about time...)

Secondly, I'm a little skeptical about Viconia and Keldorn being in the same party; especially if your pc is a female, which means no romance to trigger some kind of change in her. I don't know about the Charisma Theory, but you should be quite sure before you try it. Otherwise you are risking, all of a sudden, to find yourself with no cleric at all, or losing Keldorn for good.

Moreover, Viconia is of evil alignment: won't this affect your confrontation with Bodhi and her gang? Maybe Bodhi's vampires would be more than happy to discover that your only cleric is ...Viconia! A drow!

Cheers

serjeLeBlade · Post by **serjeLeBlade** » Wed Jun 26, 2002 2:00 am

My personal experience about K. & V.:
Spoliers ahead -- be warned

I played the whole final battle against Bodhi with Keldorn AND Viconia in my party and faced no problem at all (We also got the help of the Paladins of the Radiant Heart AND of Drizzt's party).
(I think the "fight" between Keldorn and Viccy is timer-related and I skipped it just swapping them out of the party at times).
Anyway, I've had Viconia in the party about 80% of the time and kept Keldorn for the Unseeing Eye quest, all Firkaag-related quests, and Bodhi final battle.

ARcheR_S_ · Post by **ARcheR_S_** » Wed Jun 26, 2002 2:28 am

I never used Keldorn in one of my parties......but I did use Viconia.
I think she is a great Cleric.
But when you try to get her aligment to change....wouldnt u be a male and have to romance her (????)

Maybe you could take Jan along........just to spice up things in ure party.

-Ohh yeah......am I the only one here who really, REALLY, liked Korea??............I think they were great (enthousiasm, dicipline, etc.........+ the great support from there fans!!!!)

-ARcheR_S_

Littiz · Post by **Littiz** » Wed Jun 26, 2002 9:33 am

@Aubrey: not really worth a translation, but I've just pm'ed it to you!

am I the only one here who really, REALLY, liked Korea??............I think they were great (enthousiasm, dicipline, etc.........+ the great support from there fans!!!!)

...

you mean, + great support from... ok, ok, I'll shut up!

Anyway, thanx for the help guys, this will be the party, I'll be in charge of the Charisma Theory Experiment!!

Of course, I won't be able to redeem Viconia without the romance, but I thought, the fact that I know it doesn't imply that
I shouldn't even try....

serjeLeBlade · Post by **serjeLeBlade** » Thu Jun 27, 2002 3:31 am

Originally posted by Littiz
[B
Anyway, thanx for the help guys, this will be the party, I'll be in charge of the Charisma Theory Experiment!!

Of course, I won't be able to redeem Viconia without the romance, but I thought, the fact that I know it doesn't imply that
I shouldn't even try.... [/b]

"This" will be the party?

Should have missed something.... (lost the link to the "this")
Do you mean Keldorn+Viconia+Imoen/Yoshimo+wait for TOB for the fourth man?

And... If you feel like you could be interested in... ahem... "unusual" romances (in SOA i Mean, not real life)

I think I know a trick that could come in handy.
(no spoilers attached so just ask)

Littiz · Post by **Littiz** » Thu Jun 27, 2002 10:43 am

Yes, exactly (Yoshimo included 'cause strongly suspected of knowing more than he says... the first encounter is strange...
Maybe he could lead me to Immie...)
Oh, ok, I need a thief!

Abut the "strange" romances, I know what you mean, but no thanx!

Not for this char at least!
Today instead of playing I started writing a bio for her, then I'll have to search the net for the most fitting portrait ever
(this will be a real challenge I fear..

), and then I will try to edit a couple of things to make this char more "special"...
eheheheheheh
But, I'm no good at editing

Aubrey · Post by **Aubrey** » Thu Jun 27, 2002 1:59 pm

I have buried many fallen comrades...let us endeavour to remain hale this day."

Keldorn Firecam, Inquisitor

I think you're going to like this guy. And he doesn't need any editing.

Cheers

serjeLeBlade · Post by **serjeLeBlade** » Fri Jun 28, 2002 6:05 am

Originally posted by Littiz
Today instead of playing I started writing a bio for her, then I'll have to search the net for the most fitting portrait ever
(this will be a real challenge I fear.. ), and then I will try to edit a couple of things to make this char more "special"...
eheheheheheh
But, I'm no good at editing

How would you spell "In bocca al lupo" in correct english or slang or whatever language comprehensible netwide?

Anyway, please call me whenever I could be of any help!