Losing many users
Losing many users
Wow, anyone else thinks the subscription thing sucks? Every damn website i go to ends up doing this trash. Oh well, i guess i can understand why, but this website is gonna lose very many users i think. Oh well, guess time to go to a different site :-(
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HighLordDave
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TANSTAAFL: There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch
While I appreciate that some people cannot (or will not) afford to pay subscription fees to visit webpages, the fact of the matter is that operating a website costs money. There are domain name registration fees, server costs, hosting, bandwidth and all sorts of other associated costs, which up until Buck's announcement, came out of his pocket.
Frankly, I'm surprised he could afford to maintain the site at no cost to its users this long. I don't like paying subscription fees myself for "premium" content, but I also accept that GameBanshee could not raise enough money through advertising and donations to break even. If it were me, GameBanshee would have gone belly up many, many months ago because I cannot afford to pour thousands of dollars per year into a website that is essentially a labour of love.
This is a fantastic site with high-quality content and a tremendous community behind it. While some casual users will no doubt leave once the premium areas are cordoned off, I think that many of us hardcore GameBanshee members will remain.
While I appreciate that some people cannot (or will not) afford to pay subscription fees to visit webpages, the fact of the matter is that operating a website costs money. There are domain name registration fees, server costs, hosting, bandwidth and all sorts of other associated costs, which up until Buck's announcement, came out of his pocket.
Frankly, I'm surprised he could afford to maintain the site at no cost to its users this long. I don't like paying subscription fees myself for "premium" content, but I also accept that GameBanshee could not raise enough money through advertising and donations to break even. If it were me, GameBanshee would have gone belly up many, many months ago because I cannot afford to pour thousands of dollars per year into a website that is essentially a labour of love.
This is a fantastic site with high-quality content and a tremendous community behind it. While some casual users will no doubt leave once the premium areas are cordoned off, I think that many of us hardcore GameBanshee members will remain.
Jesus saves! And takes half damage!
If brute force doesn't work, you're not using enough.
If brute force doesn't work, you're not using enough.
Yes, chances are that we will lose quite a few viewers, and I hate to see them go. But please look at things from my perspective. If you spent several hours a day working on something, yet it cost you hundreds of dollars a month out of your own pocket, how long would you continue working on it? Like I said in my announcement, what started out as a hobby for me has become an expense that costs far more than my house payment each month. My only other choice was to shut down the site... do you really think that would have been a better solution?Originally posted by Nicholi
Wow, anyone else thinks the subscription thing sucks? Every damn website i go to ends up doing this trash. Oh well, i guess i can understand why, but this website is gonna lose very many users i think. Oh well, guess time to go to a different site :-(
There are a few other ways to join Flashlink other than credit card. You can find the details here.Originally posted by Kyi'bllik
i loved Gamebanshee much, yes, yes, but now.... i have no credit-card, how can i get to walktroughts?
The way I see it, I've been here almost since the very begining of GB. There's only a handful of people who have been here longer (and are still around). I have played almost all the games featured on this site, and have spammed the forums for a year and a half now. I may not need the walkthroughs personally, but that is not going to stop me from trying my hardest to convince my folks to loan me the card in order to stay a member of the site. Besides, you never know when I may forget something, and need the walkthrough. 
BTW Buck, these prices, I assume, are American, right?
BTW Buck, these prices, I assume, are American, right?
Volunteer or paid?
Although it's probably really none of my business, I'll ask anyway. With the move to parts of this site being subscription only, will the cash flow coming in be applied only to the actual costs of running the site, or will some be applied to the administrator's cost of living? (ie, mortgage, food, etc)? If I'm to subscribe, I'd like to know what my money is being used for. I've seen far too many web sites lately with their collection baskets extended to not become a little cynical in my dotage. Thanks.
crowbraid
0 is not a letter, it's a number
Although it's probably really none of my business, I'll ask anyway. With the move to parts of this site being subscription only, will the cash flow coming in be applied only to the actual costs of running the site, or will some be applied to the administrator's cost of living? (ie, mortgage, food, etc)? If I'm to subscribe, I'd like to know what my money is being used for. I've seen far too many web sites lately with their collection baskets extended to not become a little cynical in my dotage. Thanks.
crowbraid
0 is not a letter, it's a number
Re: Volunteer or paid?
Well, in the event that things go very well and monthly revenue exceeds what it costs me to run the site, it will still take a *long* time for me to recover the money I've already invested in the last two years. After that, a vast majority of the money would be invested into things like a professional GameBanshee logo, a few more web-based programs to help manage the site, and maybe even pay an editor or two to develop daily content. Only time will tell how profitable Flashlink turns out to be for the site.Originally posted by crowbraid
With the move to parts of this site being subscription only, will the cash flow coming in be applied only to the actual costs of running the site, or will some be applied to the administrator's cost of living?
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Ode to a Grasshopper
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I said this over at SYM, but maybe it should have gone here. I'd just like to thank Buck for not making the forums subscription-only as well, it'd be a shame if members like myself and Vicsun who can't afford a subscription had to lose touch with the friends they've made here.
Losing the use of the site is a bit of a blow (though I can see why it was necessary, and frankly if it had been me I doubt I would've gone for this long with the expenses Buck's been footing), but I'd really have hated to lose contact with the people here, IMO they are what makes GB truly stand out.
Losing the use of the site is a bit of a blow (though I can see why it was necessary, and frankly if it had been me I doubt I would've gone for this long with the expenses Buck's been footing), but I'd really have hated to lose contact with the people here, IMO they are what makes GB truly stand out.
Proud SLURRite Gunner of the Rolling Thunder (TM) - Visitors WELCOME!
([size=0]Feel free to join us for a drink, play some pool or even relax in a hottub - want to learn more?[/size]
The soul must be free, whatever the cost.
([size=0]Feel free to join us for a drink, play some pool or even relax in a hottub - want to learn more?[/size]
The soul must be free, whatever the cost.
buck satan and co.,
your site rocks! been lurking on here for about 3 months. and while I'm sorry to see the site go "for pay," the sheer amount and quality of content that's here is well worth the money. given the plethora of dead links and useless crpg sites out there I hope others who feel the same would contribute as well.
best of luck,
catofnine
your site rocks! been lurking on here for about 3 months. and while I'm sorry to see the site go "for pay," the sheer amount and quality of content that's here is well worth the money. given the plethora of dead links and useless crpg sites out there I hope others who feel the same would contribute as well.
best of luck,
catofnine
we hatesssss them they stole our preciousssss.
I agree, GameBanshee Sold Out...
Please,
Do you think we are all stupid? DNS registration costs $35 for a two year submittal (@Netsolve). A robust server like a Compaq Proliant Series runs $3,900, depreciated as a capital asset over 36 months like any good businees is a net cost of just over $100 a month.
A SDSL business account from almost any provider is only $49 a month, giving GameBanshee a broadband bandwidth stream of 3-8mbps (3-8 T1s).
The only way this site costs more than a house payment is if it is being run fiscally poorly, or it is a real small house.
This would make GameBanshee profitable by establishing a few links to premier game sites rather than selling out to Internet capitalization.
Personally, I like the site, but I won't be back. And I will be telling several people and local game shops that the site has commercialized and sold out.
Jim...
Please,
Do you think we are all stupid? DNS registration costs $35 for a two year submittal (@Netsolve). A robust server like a Compaq Proliant Series runs $3,900, depreciated as a capital asset over 36 months like any good businees is a net cost of just over $100 a month.
A SDSL business account from almost any provider is only $49 a month, giving GameBanshee a broadband bandwidth stream of 3-8mbps (3-8 T1s).
The only way this site costs more than a house payment is if it is being run fiscally poorly, or it is a real small house.
This would make GameBanshee profitable by establishing a few links to premier game sites rather than selling out to Internet capitalization.
Personally, I like the site, but I won't be back. And I will be telling several people and local game shops that the site has commercialized and sold out.
Jim...
But why make that sort of comment? I can guarantee that you have used some of the walkthroughs for free which Buck and many other people have subscribed too. By telling everyone else that the site is bad, not only do you affect Buck's possible revenue to recoup his losses, you also ruin the effectiveness of the site's provision of resources. Rather than buying that beer of packet of ***s that you may smoke, donate it to something that has been provided to you for free.
Don't be such an arse about it, I didn't hear anyone complain when Buck made the site available for all the people that were stuck at one point.
Don't be such an arse about it, I didn't hear anyone complain when Buck made the site available for all the people that were stuck at one point.
Perverteer Paladin
Fiscal Facts?
There's certainly other sites that have decided to charge for some of their information. Logicool brings out some data that seems to indicate that the actual cost (not counting salary) of running a site is really pretty minimal. Is this true? It would sure seem to me like the bandwidth would be rather spendy, but I don't know.
Now, please note, before I get replies that this person spends x% of long hours slaving over a hot computer to bring this fine site to the web, I said not counting salary. Hours spent in a hobby are done for the pleasure of the doer, not for business.
There's certainly other sites that have decided to charge for some of their information. Logicool brings out some data that seems to indicate that the actual cost (not counting salary) of running a site is really pretty minimal. Is this true? It would sure seem to me like the bandwidth would be rather spendy, but I don't know.
Now, please note, before I get replies that this person spends x% of long hours slaving over a hot computer to bring this fine site to the web, I said not counting salary. Hours spent in a hobby are done for the pleasure of the doer, not for business.
Re: I agree, GameBanshee Sold Out...
If you look at this page, you'll see Verio's exact prices. $395 startup, plus $395/month is the cheapest server they even offer. After I upgraded the server (about a year ago) and bumped it up to 512 MB of RAM, I can assure you it is much more than that. And keep in mind that these prices are for 50 GB of bandwidth per month, which we exceed easily.
Additionally, I've had to purchase licenses for Ultimate Bulletin Board, vBulletin, Webdata Pro, and other web programs that we use. All of these programs cost hundreds of dollars *each* and cost more money if you want continued support after the first year. Don't believe me? Check out Webdata Pro's $599 price tag right here.
Revenue from banner ads, tower ads, popups, etc is calculated in three different ways: CPA (Cost Per Action), CPC (Cost Per Click), and CPM (Cost Per Mille). Cost Per Action advertisements require the viewer to click on the ad and make some sort of action at the other website - sign up for something, buy something, etc. If the viewer doesn't perform the required action, you are paid nothing for displaying the ad. Cost Per Click is just that - a certain amount (usually 5-10 cents) is paid to the site every time a viewer clicks on the ad. These types of ads are very rare and are almost completely extinct, at least from general ad agencies. Cost Per Mille means that the site gets paid a certain amount for every 1000 ad impressions, regardless of how many times the visitor clicked on the ad, etc.
Years ago, most gaming sites went with UGO (Underground Online) to do their ad serving. Back when rates were good, sites were paid $2 CPM. If your site served five million ads a month, you were paid $10,000. Needless to say, people made a lot of money. GameBanshee was not around during these rates, however.
Somewhere in the middle of 2000, the banner ad market crashed and continues to go downhill to this day. For example, before we joined Flashlink, I was running two popups, 468x60 banners, 120x600 banners, button ads, and selling games through Chips & Bits. To maximize revenue, I used the best of each ad from a multitude of different agencies - UGO, Gorilla Nation, Adtegrity, Advertising.com, etc. We served several million ads every month and revenue ranged from $200-$400 total. Compare that to the many costs I told you about above, and I think you can see how the site continually lost money.
I really wish it was that easy. To get the amount of bandwidth GameBanshee needs is far more expensive than $49, at least in the area of the country that I live. It is because of this that I finally went with a dedicated server through Verio, rather than try to run the server myself.Originally posted by Logicool
Please,
Do you think we are all stupid? DNS registration costs $35 for a two year submittal (@Netsolve). A robust server like a Compaq Proliant Series runs $3,900, depreciated as a capital asset over 36 months like any good businees is a net cost of just over $100 a month.
A SDSL business account from almost any provider is only $49 a month, giving GameBanshee a broadband bandwidth stream of 3-8mbps (3-8 T1s).
If you look at this page, you'll see Verio's exact prices. $395 startup, plus $395/month is the cheapest server they even offer. After I upgraded the server (about a year ago) and bumped it up to 512 MB of RAM, I can assure you it is much more than that. And keep in mind that these prices are for 50 GB of bandwidth per month, which we exceed easily.
Additionally, I've had to purchase licenses for Ultimate Bulletin Board, vBulletin, Webdata Pro, and other web programs that we use. All of these programs cost hundreds of dollars *each* and cost more money if you want continued support after the first year. Don't believe me? Check out Webdata Pro's $599 price tag right here.
Profitable by establishing a few links to other game sites? I'm sorry, but that just isn't the case. I have spent a great deal of time working with the internet ad market for the past several years (since my GameZNet days), so I'm going to give you some information on exactly how ad revenue works.Originally posted by Logicool
This would make GameBanshee profitable by establishing a few links to premier game sites rather than selling out to Internet capitalization.
Revenue from banner ads, tower ads, popups, etc is calculated in three different ways: CPA (Cost Per Action), CPC (Cost Per Click), and CPM (Cost Per Mille). Cost Per Action advertisements require the viewer to click on the ad and make some sort of action at the other website - sign up for something, buy something, etc. If the viewer doesn't perform the required action, you are paid nothing for displaying the ad. Cost Per Click is just that - a certain amount (usually 5-10 cents) is paid to the site every time a viewer clicks on the ad. These types of ads are very rare and are almost completely extinct, at least from general ad agencies. Cost Per Mille means that the site gets paid a certain amount for every 1000 ad impressions, regardless of how many times the visitor clicked on the ad, etc.
Years ago, most gaming sites went with UGO (Underground Online) to do their ad serving. Back when rates were good, sites were paid $2 CPM. If your site served five million ads a month, you were paid $10,000. Needless to say, people made a lot of money. GameBanshee was not around during these rates, however.
Somewhere in the middle of 2000, the banner ad market crashed and continues to go downhill to this day. For example, before we joined Flashlink, I was running two popups, 468x60 banners, 120x600 banners, button ads, and selling games through Chips & Bits. To maximize revenue, I used the best of each ad from a multitude of different agencies - UGO, Gorilla Nation, Adtegrity, Advertising.com, etc. We served several million ads every month and revenue ranged from $200-$400 total. Compare that to the many costs I told you about above, and I think you can see how the site continually lost money.
I have spent several hours a day and a lot of money to keep this site running for two years. For the site to continue, something had to change. If joining Flashlink to ensure the survival of GameBanshee for years to come is "selling out", then I guess I'm guilty.Originally posted by Logicool
Personally, I like the site, but I won't be back. And I will be telling several people and local game shops that the site has commercialized and sold out.
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KidD01
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Buck Sir,
I don't mean to be rude here but I don't think you should listen to those negative posts. I agree it's not easy running this awesome site, especially maintaining it in such a great performance with such bandwidth.
As for those who want to know the details I think it's best to ask via PM to Buck before and rather than posting such a provoking post.
And posting such post like :
<EDIT> Let's see :
User Name : Logicool
Registered : Jul 2002
Total Post : 1 on 5 Jul 2002
Is this fella register just to post such provoking post only ?
I don't mean to be rude here but I don't think you should listen to those negative posts. I agree it's not easy running this awesome site, especially maintaining it in such a great performance with such bandwidth.
As for those who want to know the details I think it's best to ask via PM to Buck before and rather than posting such a provoking post.
And posting such post like :
is definately not a nice comment.Personally, I like the site, but I won't be back. And I will be telling several people and local game shops that the site has commercialized and sold out.
<EDIT> Let's see :
User Name : Logicool
Registered : Jul 2002
Total Post : 1 on 5 Jul 2002
Is this fella register just to post such provoking post only ?
I'm not dead yet
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Ode to a Grasshopper
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On the other hand @KidD01, this is a thread for discussing Buck's decision, and if people have negative comments they wish to make then they too should be able to post them. As far as I can tell Buck has easily justified his move in the face of logicool's objections, and that answer's that particular concern.
It's all good.
It's all good.
Proud SLURRite Gunner of the Rolling Thunder (TM) - Visitors WELCOME!
([size=0]Feel free to join us for a drink, play some pool or even relax in a hottub - want to learn more?[/size]
The soul must be free, whatever the cost.
([size=0]Feel free to join us for a drink, play some pool or even relax in a hottub - want to learn more?[/size]
The soul must be free, whatever the cost.
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KidD01
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The way that fella write on his/her post clearly shows hostile attention toward GB and I doubt he/she try to open a discussion with such post. Yet, I'm glad Buck can shove all the answers into his/her face. Way to go All Mighty One !Originally posted by Ode to a Grasshopper
On the other hand @KidD01, this is a thread for discussing Buck's decision, and if people have negative comments they wish to make then they too should be able to post them. As far as I can tell Buck has easily justified his move in the face of logicool's objections, and that answer's that particular concern.
It's all good.
I'm not dead yet
Have to say that I am quite disappointed in GB's move to paid access for the game help sections. There is just far too many more sites that offer the same information for free....I really don't see why anyone would want to pay money when they can just find it somewhere else. It's just a classic example of competition, and I'll tell you people something...there is such thing as a free on lunch on the internet. It's a world of free information and I'm not about to go about paying for it!
Buck if you are having troubles affording this server you should really just look for a better solution. You can find colos out there with plenty of bandwidth for less than $100/mo.
I do enjoy the forums thanks for not making them pay only!
Buck if you are having troubles affording this server you should really just look for a better solution. You can find colos out there with plenty of bandwidth for less than $100/mo.
I do enjoy the forums thanks for not making them pay only!