Morrowind vs Neverwinter Nights

Soul Reaper · Post by **Soul Reaper** » Tue Jul 09, 2002 9:03 pm

wich game is better, worthier and delivers more fun quests and flexivility in the character creation and development?

well i had allready posted this thread in the nwn section forum
and this is the reply that i received form someone called Krimmy
please let me know whta you think about it:

"I played a little Morrowind but never really got into it, I understand it has an editor as well but I'd have a hard time believing it's as good as the NWN toolset. Morrowind might beat NWN with the single player game it comes with but NWN greatness will be told in all the modules that will be created by the user community out there over the next few years. I didn't buy NWN because of the single player game in came with, I enjoyed it to a certain extent but I had problems with some of the points of the story. It seems the creators of NWN concentrated alot more on the toolset making it as easy to use and flexiable for the mod creators out there than the story they put togther for the single player, it doesn't hold a candle to the story told in BG,SoA and ToB.

With this toolset I firmly believe the community out there can and will come up with something just as good, and I can't wait ".

please reply you opinions.

Tybaltus · Post by **Tybaltus** » Tue Jul 09, 2002 11:13 pm

As I believe I told you in a thread before(and my opinions havent changed) I believe that that response you put there basically encompasses everything that Ive heard about NWN and the way I felt when I watched it.

Obviously the BG series has beaten all the rpg's out there. But with BG aside, I think the best rpg that Ive played has been Morrowind. I think the basic conclusion to be made is that if it is multiplayer games you are after-look for NWN. However NWN failed to execute on the 1-player versions. If it is 1-player you are looking for than Morrowind beats NWN in a landslide.

That person says that they never got into Morrowind? Too bad. They dont know what they are missing. I found Morrowind addicting when I first got it and I still find it addicting-even after Ive won the game.

Soul Reaper · Post by **Soul Reaper** » Tue Jul 09, 2002 11:27 pm

i think im goig for your advice

even though i´ve just seen a post from so guy who says that morrowind doesn´t seems to have a clear and creative central plot,
i think such a vitiating game (as you descrive it) cant be only hack and slash so im going to follow yur advice

thanks

Tybaltus · Post by **Tybaltus** » Tue Jul 09, 2002 11:39 pm

For the most part, you dont have to follow the plot straigt out in Morrowind. You can wait *AGES* until you actually even start the plot. I, actually, kind of liked the plot of Morrowind. But my opinions are of my own taste. Each person shares there own side of issues and what one person likes might not comply to the likings of another.

As far as "hack and slash", Morrowind isnt really like that. Obviously if you are a level 35 character facing a rat-it wont be much of a challenge. Some fights require a tedious amount of strategy while others can be easier. It all depends on what type of character you are playing, what level you are, and what level your opponents are.

Once you start Morrowind you will have plenty of options on where you want to go with your character.

Soul Reaper · Post by **Soul Reaper** » Tue Jul 09, 2002 11:49 pm

questions

i dont understand how does birthsigns work in the game?
are allowed to have more than one? what are they? and can you change them?

Tybaltus · Post by **Tybaltus** » Wed Jul 10, 2002 12:06 am

Birthsigns:
1-Q-Are you allowed to have more than one?
A-No

2-Q-What are they?
A-They are the star sign your character is born under (in reality its called the zodiac and constallations in astrology) in Morrowind-their basic function is adding to bonuses of your character-Example-One sign is called "The Warrior" -it grants 10 points to your attack (This will make more sense when you buy the game) another example is "The Lady" which grants 25 to personality and 25 to endurance.
Basically makes your character a bit better but the advantage is up to you (choosing one of the signs)

3-Q-Can you change them?
A-No

BTW-It seems we have a good back-and-forth conversation on this thread.

Soul Reaper · Post by **Soul Reaper** » Wed Jul 10, 2002 12:13 am

uuuuuuuh

i think i´ll have to read the manual more than one time..

the game is working with d&d -like classes ?
is there monk, sorcerers, druid etc....?
and kits such as for example the kensai?

Loredweller · Post by **Loredweller** » Wed Jul 10, 2002 12:21 am

Re: questions

Originally posted by Soul Reaper
i dont understand how does birthsigns work in the game?
are allowed to have more than one? what are they? and can you change them?

No, you cannot change them, it's supposed you've born under this sign. The way they're working is the same as usually a horoscope does. In this world there's no doubt if the sign is ever working

It gives the character some additional bonuses and abilities (and sometimes disadvantages, too - to compensate bonuses if creators have counted them overpowering) to start with, that's all. I'm wondering a bit aren't there a fluctuations of luck according to date, hour and your sign, though. I've noticed while enchanting there's different luck on making the same enchantment in same conditions save but time. I've never investigated this seriously enough, so i'm not sure. There is the book in the game outlining most congenial month for every sign, it might be extended to hours, too. That's an evidence developers might have been thinking along those lines, I don't know if it's implemented, however.

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Wed Jul 10, 2002 5:10 am

Personally i am sticking with Morrowind, i enjoy the feel of the game and the constant exploration, NwN will come to fruition as an online/multiplayer game, but my access to that is 28kbps, so i am not exactly going to rule all

For the moment NwN and WC3

cjdevito · Post by **cjdevito** » Wed Jul 10, 2002 7:39 am

wich game is better, worthier and delivers more fun quests and flexivility in the character creation and development?

Morrowind, on all counts.

I played a little Morrowind but never really got into it, I understand it has an editor as well but I'd have a hard time believing it's as good as the NWN toolset

I've tooled around with the editors for both games. There is absolutely, positively no question that Morrowind's is better. Hands down. 100%. It's more powerful, more flexible, easier to use.... and not full of bugs. The NWN editor is.

Bottom line, if you want a single player game, get morrowind. If you want a multiplayer game, get NWN.

Soul Reaper · Post by **Soul Reaper** » Wed Jul 10, 2002 1:59 pm

counfusing

well, as I said in a another post, i did also posted this thread in the nwn section and some of their opinions made me doubt again

everyone agrees that morrowinds enviroments are gorgeus, you know: lanscapes, poblations, water etc.... but i´ve heard that ist character models are awful, and that they often get stuck in the enviroment.
and that would be such a drag cuz the system requirements are way to high. they say that it is merely imposible to play it at the maximum resolution too.

is it true?

is there dnd-like classes in morrowid? you know: monk, sorcerer, wizard, rogue..etc....?
is there kits? like for example the kensai or the bounty hunter?

Soul Reaper · Post by **Soul Reaper** » Wed Jul 10, 2002 2:06 pm

and

they also said that morrowind´s spell FX are shockingly bad
and tah nwn spell fx are very good

cjdevito · Post by **cjdevito** » Wed Jul 10, 2002 2:49 pm

heard that ist character models are awful, and that they often get stuck in the enviroment.

Untrue, and untrue. Clipping is an exceedingly minor issue; as far as the models, well, you tell me:

and

and that would be such a drag cuz the system requirements are way to high. they say that it is merely imposible to play it at the maximum resolution too.

I played it on an athlon 800 with 256 megs of ram, windows xp and a geforce 2 card. Performance was fine -- I didn't get the "best" animated water effects possible or texture shading, but it was still absolutely gorgeous and it performed fine. Certainly at least as good as NWN, which for some reason actually suffers from "lag" in single player.

is there dnd-like classes in morrowid? you know: monk, sorcerer, wizard, rogue..etc....?

Well, morrowind is NOT D&D. It's a skills based system. You want a monk, sorceror,wizard, rogue... no problem. There are "classes" already set that up that pick apropriate skill sets for those types. You want to mix and match, get a wizard who wields axes and wears plate mail while picking locks, you can do that do. Character generation and development is MUCH MUCH more customizable then it is in NWN or D&D in general.

they also said that morrowind´s spell FX are shockingly bad

3d rendered spell effects casting shadows as moving light sources are shockingly bad? And the pixels used in NWN for spell effects are great? Sorry - whoever told you that is clearly biased. Morrowind's spell effects are simpler and not as showy as NWNs, but are nicely implemented. NWNs are either nothing but short flashes of non-rendered, non-3D pixels... or over the top screen filling effects.

Look, I've got both games, I've finished both games, I've messed with the editors on both games. If you're after single player, Morrowind is a far better game -- and I simply can't credit another of the responses you got, that Morrowind's story isn't as good as NWNs. That's nonsense and a half, NWNs story and single player game are incredibly weak and unappealing. On the other hand, if it's multiplayer you're after, NWN is the one you want. Morrowind doesn't even offer that.

Someone else told you NWN would see single player mods, and I'm sure it will. But Morrowind has been seeing single player mods for months, and will continue to do so, as well.

Soul Reaper · Post by **Soul Reaper** » Wed Jul 10, 2002 3:44 pm

right

thanks cjdevito you clarified things for me

i think that everyone stands up for the game they bought in the first place, and they holding them in such high esteem is understandabe due to the money they expended on it,

since you have both of the games your opinion counts a lot

thanks again for explaining me morrowid´s character creation

Sirius_Sam · Post by **Sirius_Sam** » Fri Jul 12, 2002 1:09 pm

Both games are very good

Hi CJ

Glad to see you're still enjoying Morrowind...I am too, but I've become a NWN enthusiast at the moment.

NWN is actually what I expected from DS (and was very disappointed with GPG's take on Diabloesque roleplaying). I think you summed it up beautifully in an earlier post on this thread...if you want SP, play Morrowind...if you want MP, play NWN (my apologies for paraphrasing).

I've only had NWN for a week or so, and I've only had a chance to install and play around with some characters last night...it seems to be a lot of fun and the online community will probably keep both games on my HD for quite a while.

I think it's a good thing that there's even a discussion about "which game is better" when we are talking about 2 very good RPGs...it's about time. Long Live Morrowind AND Neverwinter Nights !!!

BTW: I noticed the Lizard picture and was wondering how the 'ol "Kung-Fu Lizard Project" was going...Eats-Crow still doing well?

S_S

cjdevito · Post by **cjdevito** » Fri Jul 12, 2002 2:29 pm

Hiya SS

Glad to see you're still enjoying Morrowind...

I haven't touched it in about a month, actually

Waiting mostly for some more involved mods to be released. Right now I'm mostly playing Warcraft 3.

I've only had NWN for a week or so, and I've only had a chance to install and play around with some characters last night...

NWN's single player game starts off with a lot of promise. In the end, I didn't feel it lived up to that promise.... but again, the hope is that as mods are released it will be truly worthwhile.

BTW: I noticed the Lizard picture and was wondering how the 'ol "Kung-Fu Lizard Project" was going...Eats-Crow still doing well?

Too well, actually -- I dropped it because my most deliberately-gimped character turned out to be, if not uber-powerful, still more then capable of taking care of himself.

fable · Post by **fable** » Fri Jul 12, 2002 3:22 pm

NWN's single player game starts off with a lot of promise. In the end, I didn't feel it lived up to that promise.... but again, the hope is that as mods are released it will be truly worthwhile.

This has been my reaction, and I'm not sure that any mods will change it, because of the time and knowledge required to build 'em. I suspect that for the most part, we're going to be hit over the head by tons of inept quickees and carefully thought out Diabloesque mods which concentrate on nothing but fighting. But who knows...?

The singleplayer game dies quickly for me, killed by tons of small disappointments:

1) Endless tiny pieces of treasure in boxes, crates, etc. Very un-RPG (you know anybody who lives anywhere in a district hit by disease would get those 10 or 12 healing potions spread out all over the place before you did). Very time-consuming.

2) Attractive but dead-feeling 3D backgrounds. Morrowind has it all over any other RPG I've seen for environment, and NWN's 3D actually feels almost like 2D.

3) Playing one character, moving from room to room in search of monsters and boss monsters, the game simply comes across like a modified action game, not an RPG.

In sum, if they wanted to show me what they could do with a new RPG engine, they should have created an RPG game. What they created was an action game with RPG backgrounds. Yes, I know it has stats and weapons--but I still feel that it pales from an RPG perspective next to the BG series, Morrowind, Gothic, PS:T, Arcanum, the Fallouts, and the latest Wizardry. Just my POV.

Tybaltus · Post by **Tybaltus** » Fri Jul 12, 2002 3:25 pm

It sounds like NWN is Diablo II with a little more plot. Or am I missing the point?

fable · Post by **fable** » Fri Jul 12, 2002 3:46 pm

Originally posted by Tybaltus
It sounds like NWN is Diablo II with a little more plot. Or am I missing the point?

It is interesting to recall that Bioware for a long time wasn't going to include a stop/pause function for combat even for singleplayer games. (They changed that after the beta testers screamed.) This would seem to provide evidence that yes, they'd thought of NWN as a sort of super-Diablo, at least, in a sense. Personally, I think there's just too much to handle for the game to be completely action-oriented.

I never thought I'd find that NWN had me looking forward to IWD2, but it does. In other words, I'm willing to settle for a simple, good dungeon crawl, since I find that NWN doesn't deliver the RPG goods. And with Lionheart currently taking a similar action-oriented route (on stop/pause), I suspect we'll have some time to wait before the next major RPG shows up after Morrowind.

cjdevito · Post by **cjdevito** » Fri Jul 12, 2002 4:34 pm

NWN's 3D actually feels almost like 2D.

NWN's 3D feels very 2D to me. Not really a problem in itself, as I -like- a well done 2d game just fine. But NWN's lackluster 3d looks more like a poorly done 2d then anything else.