Apathy/Cynicism (no spam)

[Mr Sleep]

As many of you will no doubt know i have a tendancy to be cynical, it has devolved(evolved?) to the point now where i have formed the cliche "i don't really care" policy on most things, it's amazing to see my philosophy change over the last few years.

I used to be somewhat of an artistic fellow, i painted, i wrote stories and poetry, i was an architypal teen angst kind of guy for a while, the world is against me yadda yadda yadda.

My question i guess is, how many people out there have turned cynical and what was your main reason, do you think there is a cause in society or is the reasoning more personal. Is there a single incident that made you the way you are or has the cynicism simply developed over time?

Also, is it such a bad thing?

[frogus]

you mean stereotypical, not archetypal BTW...

anyway, I have not yet turned cynical (is that the right spelling? it looks very odd )...and yes, I reckon it is a bad thing. Even being a teen angster is probably better - at least that way you have a passion which could conceivably motivate you to do good things...

but anyway, I haven't noticed any great cynicism in you Sleepy You always struck me as a cheerful and motivated person, as they go...

[CM]

hmmm....i wouldnt say i am cynical.
Rather untrusting.
Dont trust anybody more than i have to.
I have only 1 friend who i trust, the rest dont know much about my life and i dont care to tell them.
Family tends to be the only entity i trust on anything.
I also untrusting on peoples motives.
If some one comes up to me and asks lets go out for a drink, i would most likely say yes, be very skeptical of him or her.
Usually suspect that they want something or want to take advantage of something.
I have met very few people who are genuine.

Plus i agree with frogus, you aint that cynical, rather more practical.

[Mr Sleep]

Your right i did mean stereotypical.

Originally posted by frogus
but anyway, I haven't noticed any great cynicism in you Sleepy You always struck me as a cheerful and motivated person, as they go...

Really? I guess you haven't heard my withering thoughts on all things media related?

I was having a long conversation last night with someone about a related issue, so my thread is kind of spill over.

I look at it like this, i am normal, i have no super power, i am not going to change the world in any dramatic way, so i am resigned to being who i am.

I suppose it is related to definition of cynicism, i see it as a reaction to certain events, i am defiantely in the half-pint-glass empty camp. For instance Diana dies, i say on the same morning "Well i bet all this becomes abused by the Media and her memory becomes tarnished" lo and behold it is! That is what i mean as cynical, i suppose by proxy it is pessimism.

[Tamerlane]

You are a bit of a cynic aren't you. I tend to have a similar attitude although it comes and goes based on a variety of factors.

If I have to pick on one thing, its the shows on TV. Seinfeld taught me to question everything, Black Books taught me to have a disregard of all things deemed acceptable in todays society. Simpsons has showed me that if something isn't strange then it doesn't justify in gaining my attention. Unfortunately most things aren't 'out of this world', so I don't pay attention to them. I should stop whilst I'm ahead.

[CM]

Originally posted by Mr Sleep
...*snip*

I look at it like this, i am normal, i have no super power, i am not going to change the world in any dramatic way, so i am resigned to being who i am....*snip*

Actually that is why i say you are practical.
And with the Diana example more realistic.
My dad and I had the same reaction.
The press will eat this up like hungry wolves and they did.

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

Cynicism in me has come as a result of being an independently thinking, liberal minded reasonably intelligent person who has been raised in a Western society.
It is simply a mechanism in response to many of the injustices around the world, when I was younger I simply didn't see pictures of starving children in developing nations while certain corporate CEOs have billion dollar fortunes, for example.

[Mr Sleep]

Originally posted by Ode to a Grasshopper
Cynicism in me has come as a result of being an independently thinking, liberal minded reasonably intelligent person who has been raised in a Western society.
It is simply a mechanism in response to many of the injustices around the world, when I was younger I simply didn't see pictures of starving children in developing nations while certain corporate CEOs have billion dollar fortunes, for example.

That is what i had considered, it struck me that it is becoming more and more of a sociological reaction, my age group seem particularly glued to their cynical natures. Either that or they are overly hedonistic and try to kill themselves regularly with booze

@CM, i suppose this discussion is going to devolve to semantics You are possibly right though.

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

It's a case, by my guess, of having a generation that has better and more access to information than previous generations.

[Mr Sleep]

Originally posted by Ode to a Grasshopper
It's a case, by my guess, of having a generation that has better and more access to information than previous generations.

However that information is so often controlled and contrived to say exactly what the media want's it to say. Maybe that is also a reason behind the more cynical aspects of society?

[fable]

Originally posted by Ode to a Grasshopper
It is simply a mechanism in response to many of the injustices around the world, when I was younger I simply didn't see pictures of starving children in developing nations while certain corporate CEOs have billion dollar fortunes, for example.

I think we might want to make a distinction between a response to widespread justice, and a world-view or philosophy that sees all human activities as degraded. I believe the political game in most countries (including the US) is completely "fixed," but I find human beings in all walks of life capable of the most remarkable acts of self-sacrifice, internal courage, and genuine love. Maybe it's a matter of striking a balance?

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

Originally posted by Mr Sleep


However that information is so often controlled and contrived to say exactly what the media want's it to say. Maybe that is also a reason behind the more cynical aspects of society?

True, but that encourages a different type of cynicism, and often only from independent thinkers. Many people I know are quite happy to accept the way the media portrays things as the absolute truth, and in fact prefer it that way.
Sad but true.

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

Originally posted by fable


I think we might want to make a distinction between a response to widespread justice, and a world-view or philosophy that sees all human activities as degraded. I believe the political game in most countries (including the US) is completely "fixed," but I find human beings in all walks of life capable of the most remarkable acts of self-sacrifice, internal courage, and genuine love. Maybe it's a matter of striking a balance?

What? And admit that the world we live in is a place of extremes in many ways?
Where's the fun in that?

In this case I was just demonstrating why I am considered somewhat cynical, in other ways I have been called naive, ideallistic or accused of having a foolishly romanticised view of the world.
Not claims that I can truthfully deny, either.

[CM]

Originally posted by Ode to a Grasshopper
True, but that encourages a different type of cynicism, and often only from independent thinkers. Many people I know are quite happy to accept the way the media portrays things as the absolute truth, and in fact prefer it that way.
Sad but true.

I know those type of people.
They believe the media is completely objective and prints for the overall good.
Idiots...

Fable rather wouldnt it be that the media, movies or whatever overplays the other qualities of a person who is couragous or self-sacrificing to make him or her more than human.

Say a person saves a kid from a burning house. The person isnt normal anymore. The media makes him out to be some modern day hero, with a quality that is 'supposedly' very rare, when it truly isnt. Rather media and social thought protrays these ideals as missing from todays society.

[Mr Sleep]

Originally posted by fable
but I find human beings in all walks of life capable of the most remarkable acts of self-sacrifice, internal courage, and genuine love. Maybe it's a matter of striking a balance?

That is another point that refers to Diana, Mother Theresa died in the same week as Diana, Diana has memorials, gardens, all kinds of celebration. Now here is a woman like Mother Theresa, she works her entire life for others (to my knowledge) she helps out she lives in destitute conditions and we get maybe a couple of minutes of coverage that whole week...now if i wasn't annoied with the media before that, i certainly was after...do we have memorials for one of the most important nuns to grace society in my lifetime, no we dont....

[CM]

Originally posted by Mr Sleep


That is another point that refers to Diana, Mother Theresa died in the same week as Diana, Diana has memorials, gardens, all kinds of celebration. Now here is a woman like Mother Theresa, she works her entire life for others (to my knowledge) she helps out she lives in destitute conditions and we get maybe a couple of minutes of coverage that whole week...now if i wasn't annoied with the media before that, i certainly was after...do we have memorials for one of the most important nuns to grace society in my lifetime, no we dont....

That is actually politics.
And that is never moral or right.
Agreed she deserved more of a spot light.
But then again the indian media covered her death impecabbly (SP??) while BBC and CNN did not.
That i guess would be because of who is watching.
Brits rather hear about Diana than Mother Theresa, or so the media thinks.
Honestly i was throwing up during the whole kennedy incident.
The kid goes missing, whoa 5 whole days of just that bloody thing.
People died during that time in Bangladesh.
Had to check Pakistani media for World news

Oh yeah semantics would be a major problem...but consider yourself lucky that you aint a cynic.

[Mr Sleep]

Originally posted by CM
Agreed she deserved more of a spot light.
But then again the indian media covered her death impecabbly (SP??) while BBC and CNN did not.

I am glad to hear someone did.

The media shouldn't be centered around giving the people what they want to hear, it should be concerned with giving us news; things that actually matter.

[fable]

Originally posted by CM
That is actually politics.
And that is never moral or right.

Your comments remind me of the remarks made by my favorite composer, Gabriel Faure, on his deathbed. According to his two sons, he turned to them and said, "After I'm gone, they'll say, Well, after all, there was nothing to him. They did this to Saint-Saens [his friend and teacher], and they'll do it to me. Don't worry about it. What they say means nothing. Live your lives."

...meaning, as I take it, live to the best of your own abilities, having regard to individuals, and setting aside the valuations created by an insane culture.

[CM]

Now those are words of wisdow fable.

Sleepy only in an ideal world.

[Silur]

Hmmm, Mr Sleep, this reminds me a lot of me some years ago. It's easy to be cynical, desillusioned and paraniod - all you have to do is watch the news. I was doing a lot of work on network security at the time, which made the paranioa a lot worse

All things left on their own, anyone with intelligence has to become cynical in the light of world affairs, right? It's the easy way of life, you don't have to do anything since it all reeks anyway, and you're always right. Sad thing is, it makes you passive and resigned, so you're less likely to try to do something about anything. So the end result is you do equally much as those sheep who believe everything media feeds them, and thus the status quo is maintained (for those paranoically inclined)...

Personally, I work very hard not to fall back into cynicism and resignation. It's hard work, and things like Dubbya, Megacorps and their CEOs, wars and famine, fanatics of all colours, etc, etc don't make it a least bit easier. At times I still think the earth would be a better place without Homo Sapiens Sapiens, but you have to work with what you've got. Wishful thinking, which is another topic entirely, is equally pacifying and destructive.

So, Mr Sleep, fight that disease and get back up there on the barricades! That's an order! Now, were you to take orders this easily, you no longer qualify as a cynic and are demoted to the sheep category.