Mage Combos!!!

Gorgan · Post by **Gorgan** » Thu Aug 22, 2002 5:18 pm

I thought up some pretty cool mage combos (i think). The first one is a berserker/mage. He gets all of the cool immunities and the ac bonus. Another one is the assassin/mage. He would be pretty cool. I would use the assassin/mage to backstab then run back behind fighters then provide support for them. If you got anymore just post them.

Gorgan · Post by **Gorgan** » Thu Aug 22, 2002 5:25 pm

oops i didnt really know this subject was beaten to death. Sorry

If you want to post anything else go ahead

Skuld · Post by **Skuld** » Thu Aug 22, 2002 5:49 pm

I'm in the process of soloing a Berserker/Mage and he's the most powerful character created yet. After playing a Sorceror I'm reluctant to use mages again, but a Berserker/Mage is definately the way to go. Thief/Illusionists(Jan) are also up there on my list of fav classes because they're so damn useful.

Xyx · Post by **Xyx** » Fri Aug 23, 2002 3:52 am

You missed the Kensai-Mage!

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Fri Aug 23, 2002 5:29 am

How on earth do you defend a Berserker/Mage RPG-wise? From where would a Berserker suddenly get the idea to become a Mage? And how would someone throw spells while enraged?

Arrrggh, that hurt, you bastards! You wanna meet my RAAAAGE?!! (avoids Charm, Hold, Fear, Maze, Imprisonment, Stun, and Sleep, gets extra HPs and bonuses to To Hit and AC). Hmmm, why not start off this pleasant fight with a cosy Fireball? Nope, to bad, didn't memorize that one yesterday evening. Why was that, it is one of my favourites after all... Maybe a Skulltrap could do the trick just as well? I wonder if they may not have some magical resistance, though... FEEL MY WRATH! Oh, I remember, I do have this nice wand as well. I'M COMING FOR YOU WITH A GREAT AXE! VERY SOON! Only two charges left, but - what the heck! - you only live once and I can buy a new one later. Everybody in the party clear out, please! I'M STILL MAD AT YOU! And off you go, little one!

At least the Kensai/Mage makes some sense...

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Fri Aug 23, 2002 7:14 am

Originally posted by UncleScratchy

I agree, a berserker/mage doesn't make that much sense but I guess its plausable. When I think berserker I envision Viking barbarians in a killing frenzy. A berserker/shaman would be more appropriate but all the barbarian shaman (as in IWD) are 90 weaklings too. Okay, heres the story line: a son, we'll call him Binky, is born to a great shaman (we'll call him Biffle, the 90 lb chump) and his barbarian wife (a Red Sonja type) from the Clan of the Bear somewhere north of Icewind Dale, Binky follows in dad's footsteps, but as he grows into a 220 pound, 6'6" hulk Binky realizes that he'd rather rampage with the other kids instead. Binky begins to learn hand to hand fighting from his mom and takes anger management training so he can funnel and focus his rage. Over time, Binky becomes Beserko-mage, the fighting shaman of the north. Of course if this were your main character you'd have to throw in the surprise that Biffle wasn't Binky's real dad afterall - IT WAS BHAAL !!!!! It works for me.

Great story Scratchy!

However, and correct me if I'm wrong, that would make a multiclass character, no? The question was rather how little Binky could have become a dual class Berserker(say 9)/Mage? (And off you go - back to the writing board!)

gnomethingy · Post by **gnomethingy** » Fri Aug 23, 2002 8:55 am

A Preist of Helm / Mage can be vere nice, even low lvl clerics can be very impressive spellcasters when your not stacking on healing spells and can cut down on casting time with the likes of Amu o' power and Robe o' vecna

The nice thing about this guy is the animate dead / innate true sights, both of which come from very tight lvls of mage spells with many other good things you could be casting (Death spell, cloudkill, sunfire, mislead, prot from magic weaps, cloudkill, chaos, etc)

Littiz · Post by **Littiz** » Fri Aug 23, 2002 9:20 am

You have a point, Astafas!

Why don't you write another little story about kensimages and explain that "some sense"???

(to me they have of course... a self-trained warrior that decides to learn the Art... in BG2 world, I see no contrasts...)

Skuld · Post by **Skuld** » Fri Aug 23, 2002 5:03 pm

Well for all you folks who have a problem justifying playing a Berserker/Mage, here's how I play mine. Almost purely offensive. When facing a group of enemies I'll usually throw a Fireball/Skull Trap in the middle of 'em, Rage, then run in and cast Sunfire and bludgeon everyone to death with my big ol' Staff of Rynn/Staff or the Magi(if I'm feelin cheesy) while they're still burning. I almost never use Hold/Charm spells over damage spells because there's always a posibility of a save and therefore a wasted spell. I also rarely use Cloudkills(only when it's absolutely necessary) and summons, only Mordenkainen's Swords(when going up against dragons). And if it's an extra large group of enemies I'll cast some buffs after the first Fireball/Skull Trap and before the Rage. If you look at the way I play 'em it makes a little more sense.

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Fri Aug 23, 2002 8:06 pm

Originally posted by Skuld
If you look at the way I play 'em it makes a little more sense.

Actually no, it doesn't. On the contrary, you seem rather strategic ("I almost never use Hold/Charm spells over damage spells because there's always a posibility of a save and therefore a wasted spell").

Skuld · Post by **Skuld** » Fri Aug 23, 2002 10:34 pm

In reading the definateion of a Berserker in the manual it says that most tend to be barbarian-like, but for some it is a conscious choice. I believe that learning the ways of magic can be just as much a conscious decision as is going into a rage during battle. For example a warrior trained to be a berserker, and after a length of time he felt he could gain no more from this training. So he began to study under a mage learning deadly evocation spells and protective abjurations to make him even more devastating in battle. I think this is no less believable than a Ranger/Cleric. Now that one makes no sense to me at all.

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Fri Aug 23, 2002 11:42 pm

i like to modify may party, and it was not cool dragging aerie into the bhaal transmogrifier....

aerie: "no, bun bun, no!!!! please dont transmogify me!!! bad, bad bunny...."

so aerie is cleric of lathander mage, jahiera is fighter totemic druid, immie has spike traps...its too hard to change immie, for some reason....have to change race...and sola is berserker mage...

should have made him kensai mage, since the most useful aspect of berserker mage is enrage, which doesnt last that long, and i simply dont use it much.

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Sat Aug 24, 2002 4:34 am

Originally posted by Skuld
I think this is no less believable than a Ranger/Cleric. Now that one makes no sense to me at all.

Why not? I find a character (of any class) getting called by his or her god to be one of the most understandable dual combos. According to Player's Handbook 3rd Ed. rangers often worship Ehlonna, goddess of the woodlands, and Obad-Hai, god of nature. And then there is Mielikki, of course.

Skuld · Post by **Skuld** » Sat Aug 24, 2002 10:09 am

OK. So you can't justify a Berserker/Mage, and I can't justify a Ranger/Cleric... now we're even.

Littiz · Post by **Littiz** » Sat Aug 24, 2002 11:17 am

All classes are easily justyfiable, in the end.
For the protagonist berserker/mage, you could consider the rage ability as something made possible by your blood...
The only thing I keep consider strange is the total access to druidic spells granted to ranger/clerics.....
None of the two classes of the combo are allowed to use high level druidic spells...

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Sat Aug 24, 2002 1:59 pm

Originally posted by Skuld
OK. So you can't justify a Berserker/Mage, and I can't justify a Ranger/Cleric... now we're even.

If you say so. I had no idea the aim of this discussion was to "get even", though...

Skuld · Post by **Skuld** » Sat Aug 24, 2002 8:45 pm

I didn't mean it that way. I meant that we each have our own points of view and in this case arguing will get us nowhere, so we might as well give it a rest.

gnomethingy · Post by **gnomethingy** » Sun Aug 25, 2002 5:58 am

I think all legal combos are viable, theres a just some minor hangups the the implementation...

If a bezerker mage couldnt cast spells while raging, i doubt anyone could complain, likewise the use any item kensai wth armour or Ranger clerics getting druid spells...

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Mon Aug 26, 2002 2:30 am

Originally posted by Littiz
You have a point, Astafas!
Why don't you write another little story about kensimages and explain that "some sense"???
(to me they have of course... a self-trained warrior that decides to learn the Art... in BG2 world, I see no contrasts...)

The Kensai is a most disciplined and focused warrior (contrary to the Berserker with his Rage). A Mage has to be disciplined and focused as well, so I find it perfectly logical for a character so inclined to assume both roles.

The Kensai/Mage's largest problem RPG-wise lays elsewhere IMO: Kensais are supposed to more or less despise magic (ruling it revolting to use in honorable combat) and to devote their entire life to the practise of swordplay, nothing else.

Astafas · Post by **Astafas** » Mon Aug 26, 2002 6:41 am

Originally posted by UncleScratchy
He's essentially given up being a kensai warrior and his swords for the pursuit of magic (the way Elminster gave up thieving to become a mage) but he can't just forget his fighting skills or that he knows how to focus his kai, and so he retains those abilities but uses the more traditional weapon of the magi.

Actually I think Binky, the berserker/mage, is starting to make more sense now. I'm getting a headache thinking about it.

So you actually put all profs into Swords then, and later equipped a Staff instead?

Didn't think so...

For your own sake: stop thinking about it before it's to late! You don't wanna become Binky now, do you?

Another thing that doesn't make good sense is that most Kensai/Mages we play dual wield despite the fact that they actually need at least one hand free for spellcasting (this is why Bladesingers only use one one-handed sword). Here the Staff seems like a better choise...