a question about atributes

ForgotenWarrior · Post by **ForgotenWarrior** » Mon Sep 23, 2002 6:01 pm

I'm not exactly sure how the generation of atributes works, I tried generating diff ones a few times and half the time I got diff atributes meaning if I tried to make a half orc with 19 str/18dex/19 const and 10/wis/int (3 char of course

) I got these atributes once:

19 str
18 dex
19 con
11 int
11 wis
3 char

and another time i got

19 str 18 dex 17 con 10 int 10 wis 3 char

whats the difference? How exactly are those generated? Isn't there a specific number of atributes you're given at the beginning( like for example in neverwinter nights)?

ForgotenWarrior · Post by **ForgotenWarrior** » Mon Sep 23, 2002 6:06 pm

Also, is that the highest attributes you can generate? (i mean if i try to make him 19 str 18 dex 19 con is that the best i can do?

Aramant · Post by **Aramant** » Mon Sep 23, 2002 6:08 pm

The numbers are based, as is the game, upon 2nd Edition AD&D rules. How it works in the game is that a person rolls 3 6-sided dice, adds the total, and attributes that into whichever statistic they wish. So, generally, you'd get a stat of 3 to 18. Certain races, eg. elves, have stat adjusments. An elf is more nimble than a human, but less hearty, so they get a +1 to dexterity, but a -1 to consitution. This plus or minus is added in after the "dice" are rolled.

As for the difference, essentially, the higher the stat point, the better the affected abilities are. Strength applies to accuracy with melee weapons, damage, and carrying capacity. Dexterity applies to AC, accuracy with ranged weapons, and thief skills. And so on, and so on.

Impaler987 · Post by **Impaler987** » Mon Sep 23, 2002 6:09 pm

Welcome to 2nd Edition AD&D rules, where there is no such thng as the point-buy system and all your stats are determined by the randomness of dice rolling. Luckily, here, at least you can readjust your points to where you want them. It was even more restrictive in PnP.

And the scores for each attribute mean much different things in 2nd ed than in 3rd ed as well. A 14 in strength, for example, in 3rd ed. is pretty good, but it doesn't mean jack in 2nd ed.

ForgotenWarrior · Post by **ForgotenWarrior** » Mon Sep 23, 2002 6:28 pm

hehe it seems this forums is more browsed than nwn forums lol. So, the best stats I could get are all 18's? Also I got a question about monks. I was thinkin about starting either a kensai or a monk because I love those characters, and their abilities/damage. Is the wisdom applied to a specific roll when you target enemies with, say, quivering palm? What are the best stats for kensais and monks?

thanks for the quick replies, guys

ps: I switched from neverwinter nights to bg2 lol bought bg2 before nwn played it to underdark and then bought nwn and played it , now starting over, I think bg2 is a better game.

Skuld · Post by **Skuld** » Mon Sep 23, 2002 7:04 pm

Well the numbers you get are generated by rolling dice of the twenty sided variety. And if you would care to know what values correspond to what bonuses/penalties please read the manual.

ForgotenWarrior · Post by **ForgotenWarrior** » Mon Sep 23, 2002 7:13 pm

I know what bonuses each attribute gives, know everything about, that, that wasnt my question, i was just curious abou the generation of the attributes.

hwttdz · Post by **hwttdz** » Mon Sep 23, 2002 7:57 pm

Attributes are actually generated by rolling 4 6 sided dice and dropping the lowest score. You do this 6 times once for each attribute and that's how many points you have. For a human the max and min attributes for any given stats are 18 and 3. If a race has a modifier +1 it implies 19 and 4 if they have a -1 its 17 and 2 and half-orc int is 16 and 1. Monks really do not get any bonuses from wisdom that most classes do not get. You can look at the tables in the back to learn all the numbers. It turns out that all values for modifiers are based on the assumption of a (0 1) gaussian transformation, or a normalized or bell curve. It is assumed that most characters will have stats near the middle so thats where the modifiers make sense. Towards the end (where you want your character) is where it gets good. If you could not redistribute points this would make perfect sense, but you can. For example say I'm a fighter, the difference between 6 and 14 dex is nil, i.e. there is no difference in modifiers. So having a 14 dex is just a waste of 8 points. However the difference between 14 and 18 buys you 4 armor class levels, not too shabby. For strength with the exception of weight limit (which is important) an 8 is the same as a 15 (but for the weight 8 and 9 are the same 10 and 11 and so on). For constitution for a monk because they are not a fighter class they do not reap the benefits of 17 or 18 con so a 16 is the same modifier wise. Assuming you are on a setting where you can ressurect characters a 6 and a 14 are the same. So forgetting the other 3 stats for a moment we have a Fighter, fighter A, who has 15 str, 14 dex and 14 con or 43 total points. This seems pretty good, right? Fighter 2 on the other hand has 18/51 str (about average for a str 18 fighter) 18 dex, and 6 con. You'd think this illogical to distribute points as such. But looking at it fighter 1 has no modifiers. Fighter 2 on the other hand has +2 thaco, +3 damage and -4 ac, and he also does not miss out on any hit points all this while having one less point to distribute. So all his weapons act like +2 thaco and +3 damage and all his armor acts like +4 and he can wear more magical stuff because of the lack of magical armor. The system obivously pays juggling the numbers.

I think I just answered a much more complicated question than you asked.

ForgotenWarrior · Post by **ForgotenWarrior** » Mon Sep 23, 2002 9:20 pm

gotcha

so the 2nd edition adnd rules are better than 3rd ed, or so it seems

I mean of course you got a one in a hundred million chance of getting your attributes to 18, all of em, but also you can make a very good fighter/melee pretty easily if you try generating stats for even a lil while, i got 19 str 18 dex 19 con 11 wis and 11 int and it didnt take me that long to do it, thats nice

my character will be such a tank hehe

thanks a lot to those who responded

oh and yes, you have answered even a more complex question than I asked, thanks for the insight though.

ps: bg2 attribute generation rule kick nwn's generation butt hehe. I am much more pleased even in the beginning of the game, and the weapons, that cant even be compared nwn has NO good weapons whatsoever( ok a +5 dagger oooh), while bg2 is full of awesome weapons, also the random item drops really makes the game more like d2, which has little or no story whatsoever, BG2 RULES!!!

OH and yea, how was the transition from baldurs gate 2:shadows of amn to throne of bhaal? I'm thinking of passing bg2 first and then get tob, you think thats a good idea?

heh

Baked Goods · Post by **Baked Goods** » Mon Sep 23, 2002 9:34 pm

Yeh, I know how all the stats work but I'd never give my PC a stat of less than 10, it just doesn't see, right- The're a child of Bhaal!!! a God!, no way I'm givin im stats that my nana would have if she was in BG.

So I just end up rolling for agessssss. Ctrl+8?, is that the cheaty way? doesn't work for me.

or SK, but that also feels like cheating (its sooo easy to give 25 con. 25 strengh hehe)

No Nana stats in BG Please!!!!

kopywrite · Post by **kopywrite** » Tue Sep 24, 2002 2:06 am

OH and yea, how was the transition from baldurs gate 2:shadows of amn to throne of bhaal? I'm thinking of passing bg2 first and then get tob, you think thats a good idea?

The game carries on straight away with ToB, after a little cut scene. I'd recommend getting it and installing as soon as you can -- although ToB changes a few things (like the cloak of mirroring and wizard slayers), it enhances the original SoA a great deal (TAB highlighting is great) and you can carry on as normal. You can also visit Wacher's Keep in SoA for some phat loot

although many people would recommend not going to WK before the end of SoA as it really piles on the XP.

Thrar · Post by **Thrar** » Tue Sep 24, 2002 2:27 am

there are some things about the attributes that have not been implemented as the manual says:
the chance of resurrection is always 100% no matter what CON.
the highest spell level is always 9, however the chance to scribe a spell and the max number per level is correct.
the modifier on saves vs spells and the failure chance on cleric spells both dont exist.

Now, I use to decide beforehand roughly which stats I want, then limit my number of rolls to not too many (for my last char I rolled a d6 and got 1) and try to make the best out of it.
If u want stats that are much higher than your average dice roll, use SK, saves a lot of time and nerves ("damn was that an 18/00? where is the back button??"). Dont make your stats go too high, make sure that it is a character u build up instead of just a set of numbers, and u will be cheating the game, but not yourself.