About sorcerors

ForgotenWarrior · Post by **ForgotenWarrior** » Wed Oct 23, 2002 10:03 pm

Hey guys I'm thinking of which character to play next(I'm currently playing a multiclass fighter/thief, he rocks hehe) and sorcerors sound cool, how would you play a sorceror? what spells do I pick and what strategy?

thanks

ps:my guy could take on an army hehe just hide and backstab all day long its fun.

fable · Post by **fable** » Wed Oct 23, 2002 10:33 pm

First, I would think seriously about playing some other profession, unless you've already tried out the great Kelsey and Tashia mods. Both of 'em are sorcs.

But if you really want to go that way--I suggest you do a search on this forum for "sorcerer." You'll find literally dozens of threads containing hundreds of spell recommendations.

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Wed Oct 23, 2002 11:40 pm

just be aware, most of the fun of playing sorcs is spell selection, carefully doing your homework, read xyx guide fully, you will be quizzed next monday, and then trying out the spell tables...

its not a science, but an art, and even after playing sorcs, and bun bun, for about 3 years, i still havent got it right, as xyx and alson and littiz comes out with a new cheese, or i do, and i have to reform my sorc tables...

and things become radically differnent with multiple sorcs, or mage heavy or fighter heavy party...it gets interesting, and you really have to enjoy planning the party....

and of course bun bun spell tables are much different than a regular sorc...

Screaming Johny · Post by **Screaming Johny** » Thu Oct 24, 2002 12:55 pm

As everyone else has said, it depends. Are you playing solo or with a party? Do you want him to be able to fight?

As an example, if playing solo I would highly recommend spells like Vampiric Touch, and some of the higher level summons. If you are playing with a cleric in the party, I wouldn't recommend either.

If you are playing solo and/or will be getting into fights, I recommend Tensor's Transformation and Stoneskin. If you won't be in fights directly, don't bother with Tensor's. (Personally, I would still get Stoneskin as it is the best 4th level spell.)

Lastly, it depends on how you want to play. Personally when playing wizards I like sending fodder up front while I pelt from a distance. This is directly opposite from when I play a fighter/theif (Kensai/Theif is my personal favorite class). Fighter/theives are usually the first into a fight with their mighty backstab. With many of the spells available, it is possible to play sorcerers up front, but I wouldn't recommend it.

I suggest you look at some of the links in the top post. I have downloaded 2 different sorcerer's guides, and xyx's spell reference is excellent.

JackOfClubs · Post by **JackOfClubs** » Thu Oct 24, 2002 2:17 pm

If you haven't played a Mage before, I wouldn't recommend playing a Sorceror. As the others have suggested, you really need to experiment with different spells in order to develop your personal style.

However, the following principles should help. (They work for mages as well, but spell choice is not so critical with mages).

1. Skip anything that has a negating saving throw. Monsters are too powerful in SoA (to say nothing of ToB) to bother with these. You can reduce saving thows with Greater Malison but why bother.

2. Skip anything that can be cast from a wand. Wands are usually faster and can't be interrupted. Cloudkill and Fire are the only ones I use. Monster Summoning is good if you are soloing.
The obvious exception to this rule is Magic Missile which is a must-have spell.

3. Skip anything that requires contact or close-range. You don't want your spell-caster in close-combat, even if he/she is protected. This applies even if you are soloing. Send in summoned monsters if you can.

Must have spells:
-Magic Missile L1
-Mirror Image L2
-Stoneskin L4
-Breach L5
-Abi Dalzim's Horrid Wilting L8

Obviously all of these rules are subject to personal preference, but I think most would agree that they are a good place to start.

ForgotenWarrior · Post by **ForgotenWarrior** » Thu Oct 24, 2002 8:36 pm

I'll play in a small party probably, and no I havent played a mage yet

, what other class is awesome to play in a small party(3 people)?

thanks for the info btw

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Fri Oct 25, 2002 12:16 am

Originally posted by ForgotenWarrior
I'll play in a small party probably, and no I havent played a mage yet , what other class is awesome to play in a small party(3 people)?

thanks for the info btw

If you are in the mood to power play a kensai/mage can be fun.

Littiz · Post by **Littiz** » Fri Oct 25, 2002 3:18 am

Spells with saves are still very good.
The fact is that when the save fails, the battle usually is over.
Think of area disabling spells... slow (which already has -4 to save),
Web, Symbol Stun (again -4)..
Add Greater Malison.. You can cast Domination with -6 to save, Spook with -10!
I've done the Improved Sauhagin city (damn hard) with a low level party
thanx to these spells!
I'm now experimenting with two mages, Jan casts GM, Imoen disables..
Man, too easy
I know they can be resisted, but especially a sorc may cast them multiple
times..

Anyway, Breach is useful but you can do without it

I've got Kelsey now, I've decided to avoid the most powerful spells, which with
a sorc kill the game (Time Stop, Project Images...), so I've taken so far
all elemental spells... Fireshield (both), Sunfire, Delayed Blast Fireball...

Believe it or not, it's fun

ForgotenWarrior · Post by **ForgotenWarrior** » Fri Oct 25, 2002 7:53 am

btw I dont have Tob, should I still try kensai/mage? what level should I dual at?

Screaming Johny · Post by **Screaming Johny** » Fri Oct 25, 2002 11:44 am

There are two main choices as to when to dual. Level 9, or Level 13. Level 9 gives you your 6th proficiency slot, and +3 to hit/damage. By level 13, you have 1 more proficiency slot, another .5 attacks/round, and an additional +1 hit/damage.

If you aren't planning on getting ToB, I suggest level 9. It takes quite a bit of SoA to get your Kensai abilities back.

In a previous post, you asked what to have in your party. Like everything else this is personal choice, but here are my thoughts.

Others have suggested you need each of the four major classes represented - fighter, mage, theif, and cleric. With a theif being able to pick-pocket a regenerating ring very early in the game, I don't think clerics are a must. I do agree that you need a fighter, mage, and theif.

With a Kensai/wizard, you have two of those covered. The Kensai is an offensive warrior though, so I suggest you pick up someone that can wear some decent armour with good hit points. I usually give this person the items that grant immunities and/or resistances as well. This person can then take the hits for you.

Now that you have an offensive warrior, a warrior with good defenses, and your mage, you should look towards your theif. Theifs are great to combine with other classes, but you already have a wizard and 2 front line warriors. So I suggest you have your theif be able to use a short bow. This could be a fighter/theif or a swashbuckler.

The above is assuming you are playing multi-player. You have a few choices with single player. For your defensive, you can pick just about anyone that can use plate armour. Minsc, Jaheira, Keldorn, Anomen, Mazzy, or Korgan. I suggest either Minsc for dialogue, Keldorn for resistances, or Korgan if you are evil.

For your thief, Jan is the best theif and he is Neutral so he can work in any party. If you are good you can get by with Imeon as your theif and she is a good mage as well. Imeon also has a slot in short bows and makes the most sense from a story point of view. This gives you two mages, but you can use Imeon for all the range spells, and your PC to buff and be a blendor. So I would suggest Jan if you are evil, or Imeon if you are good, your choice if you are neutral. Oh, and if you pick Imeon, use Yoshi for chapters 2 and 3.

Hope this helps.

ARcheR_S_ · Post by **ARcheR_S_** » Fri Oct 25, 2002 2:02 pm

Whats actually so "must-have" about magic-missles?

I barely use it, only at the very low levels, but when I am at the medium of SoA I allways got the magic missles left when im starting 2 rest.

They just arent that great IMO...........yes of course it is a lvl 1 spell...and the best lvl one spell, but since everyone is saying its SOOOO great....

I allways have a mage in my party......but the MM just dont get my attention.....I can cast better spells in a battle, in which I really need other spells of greater imporatnce then MM

Bloodmist · Post by **Bloodmist** » Fri Oct 25, 2002 2:19 pm

Three MMs in a Spell Trigger and WHAM! 3*25 dmg

Screaming Johny · Post by **Screaming Johny** » Fri Oct 25, 2002 3:34 pm

MM are great because you get one every two levels. Each missile counts as a hit. The great cheese is for removing stoneskins, since each missile removes a stoneskin you remove quite a few in one round. The hits also disrupt spell casting. Other than that, it is just a pretty good damaging spell. At high levels, all the other level one spells aren't useful anymore since most (I think all) other level 1 offensive spells have a save.

JackOfClubs · Post by **JackOfClubs** » Fri Oct 25, 2002 7:25 pm

Originally posted by Littiz
Spells with saves are still very good.
The fact is that when the save fails, the battle usually is over.
.
.
.
I know they can be resisted, but especially a sorc may cast them multiple
times..

Anyway, Breach is useful but you can do without it
.
.
.

I agree, but for a Sorceror spell slots are precious and should not be wasted on spells that might fail. Of course there are ways around this, as you suggest, but taking advantage of those strategies requires experience which I was assuming FW did not have. (An assumption he confirms).

My primary suggestion was that he play a mage first in order to get the feel for which spells he preferred, advice I stand by. The remainder of my post was in case he decided to ignore that advice.

All rules are subject to qualification, of course. I know a guy on another board who fervently maintains that Shocking Grasp and Larloch's Minor Drain are the best spells in the game! Go, figure...

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Sat Oct 26, 2002 12:14 am

Larloch's Minor Drain can be used to boost hp over max for a short duration, shocking grasp used with poison weapon, via assassin mage dual, provides elemental and poison damage...good for spell disruption....

but yeah, both are fairly sucky...you know, i think i recall reading in xyx guide that magic missile bypasses stoneskin, does not flay it....

but the real reason magic missile is such a killer spell, is its multiple attacks per cast...much the same reason flame arrow is the best level 3 offensive spell, period,,,,

say you use magic missile against dragons, which have a 60% magic resistance,,,,one cast at high level, say it generates 6 missiles...each missile has a 40% chance of getting thru and doing some damage..

times 6!!!!

....so magic missile is one of the few ways to punch thru magic resistance at low spell caster levels...until you get implosion, dragon breath, and earthquake, the classic ignore magic resist spells...besides a few specialty spells, like telly field, strength....

"Spells with saves are still very good.
The fact is that when the save fails, the battle usually is over.
Think of area disabling spells... slow (which already has -4 to save),
Web, Symbol Stun (again -4)..
Add Greater Malison.. You can cast Domination with -6 to save, Spook with -10! "

spook is the winner, by far the best level one spell, if you can spook a dragon, for the spell duration, it litterally cannot wing buffet, cannot breath weapon, cannot attack or spell cast...and spook is a level one spell....

can you say attack with all hands!!! doom it, and then feeble mind it, using multiple trys and lower resistance, then you have this huge bag of flesh, drooling and doing nothing....have aerie bash it to death with a stick, so she gets the kill credits....

or even jan, or immie or even cernd...

i personally have been experimenting with lower resist lower resist bigby in a chain, that combo is lethal against magic resistant dragons and major demons...the one round of unsavable hold gives you time to unload a lot of spells by rest of party, and time for the multiple chaos attacks to get thru...breaks scripts....

magic is fun, and requires a lot of knowledge and study, not by the avatar, but by YOU, the player......

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Sat Oct 26, 2002 3:10 am

"The first level spell. Good damage, fast, eats up Mirror Images, not many enemies are resistant to this and it ignores Stoneskin (though skins are not lost). "

magic missiles do not eat stoneskin, it bypasses them.....

"Shocking Grasp
Slightly less horrible than Chill Touch. You must still roll to hit and the item disappears after your first attempt, hit or miss. Pathetic.

Damage: 1-8 +1 per .
Item: SGRASP01 to SGRASP20. +6 enchanted, +4 To Hit."

pretty bad, but the item it creates is +6 magic weapon with thaco bonus of +4, which would be acceptable if it hung around for more than one attack, like black blade or melf.....

both quotes from xyx....the resource to read....

Littiz · Post by **Littiz** » Sat Oct 26, 2002 3:27 am

SoA only Kensai/Mage dual at 9, unless you play solo or with one or two
companions only.
Offensive fighter?
Well, while you are building the char, maybe , but then the mage part
takes care of defense..

I was playing a kensimage particularly devoted to defense (spell choices and
contingencies), through the game I had to reload for roleplaying reasons or
for the "chunked" death of companions..
Then finally my char died once against Improved Abazigal (ToB mod)
and many times in Ascension (ToB mod)
I'd say the kensimage knows its own in defense...

My primary suggestion was that he play a mage first in order to get the feel for which spells he preferred, advice I stand by.

That's wise

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Sat Oct 26, 2002 5:00 am

the way i learned spells was by running a sorc with spells added by sk....

about 8 spells per level, i read xyx guide and sorc guides, and added spells that sounded good, like fireball, and lightning bolt, and in combat they showed their flaws...

learning how to setup a spell selection for the next day and memorizing and resting does not give you the real feel a sorc has,,,,,its a lot more interesting and different playing a sorc compared to a mage, instead of finding out how to use a single spell to take care of a particular situation, you learn how to use multiple instances of a spell to duplicate the effect of a single spell, like instead of using protection from magic energy for abu defense, you learn to get by on protection from energy and belt of inertial barrior....

you learn to use only spells with good save bonuses or ignores magic resistance, and avoid spells that have a flashy effect but has a cap....

like using skull trap instead of fireball as the skulls are level capped at 20, but fireballs are capped lower...

overall, i definately feel a sorc is NOT a kit for mages, but is in fact a completely different spell caster than both mages and clerics...

JackOfClubs · Post by **JackOfClubs** » Tue Oct 29, 2002 7:25 pm

Oh, I agree. But whether you study the spells by using SK or by the "legal" method, you can't play a sorceror effectively if you don't have a thorough knowledge of the what the spells do.
Most people will not use your methods of study, <you can insert the appropriate *sigh* here, if you like> so I generally recommend that they try the spells out by using a mage before tackling the sorceror. Once they advance to that level, you are right that it is a whole different world.

Koveras · Post by **Koveras** » Tue Oct 29, 2002 7:56 pm

You can try Edwin for a bit of the feel of a sorceror.

Well, not divination spells. He's a great mage, although I liked his BG voice.