Am I hooped? (spoiler)

Screaming Johny · Post by **Screaming Johny** » Thu Nov 21, 2002 10:06 am

I started a new game with a Sorcerer and am (attempting) to get my stronghold as my first quest. After defeating Valygal's uncle he was very hostile towards me. (Maybe because I just kicked his ***.) I left the room and cleaned out his basement and came back, and now he has a red circle and he still wouldn't talk to me.

I have just saved before fighting a demon (okay I quicksaved before he killed me), but I am wondering, once I get the heart can I still use it to get out of the sphere, or am I hooped?

fable · Post by **fable** » Thu Nov 21, 2002 1:32 pm

If you followed the dialog, Lavok ceased to be possessed just as he was seriously wounded. While you can still return to your homeworld after getting the demon heart, had Lavok survived, he would have given the mage stronghold (the Planar Sphere) to any party led by a mage or sorc.

I don't recall if his corpse actually contains the Ring of Acuity (very nice, allows a mage to memorize 1 extra 2nd, 3rd and 4th level spell), or whether he has to give this to you of his own freewill, after you return the sphere.

As to Valygar, I'm not sure why he's angry at you. It has nothing to do with Lavok, since Valygar is all in favor of his destruction, as his dialog indicates. Perhaps you accidentally targeted him during an attack. Note, though, you don't need Valygar in your party to do the Planar Sphere quest. You just need him to open the front door. Typically, I've gotten him to do this, then moved outside, removed him from my party, and put back in whomever I previously dropped.

garazdawi · Post by **garazdawi** » Thu Nov 21, 2002 1:33 pm

I think so, never actually tried it but he sais that he will set the destination and u have tyo get the power. If u put the heart into it u should return to the plane u came from.

Why don't u try and tell us what happens?

Screaming Johny · Post by **Screaming Johny** » Thu Nov 21, 2002 1:40 pm

Thanks for the replies. My first post was a little rushed, so I will ellaborate.

Valygal isn't mad at me, Lavok is. When I defeated Lavok I didn't get the thanks for killing the demon within me speach. Instead I got something like 'you haven't defeated me, this body is only a vessell', then he ended the dialogue and turned red. Now he won't talk to me. This leads me to beleive I didn't kill the demon possessing him. I tried to whack on him some more, and after about 1,000 damage I just stopped.

As I mentioned in my first post, I just went to get the heart anyway and then I had to get ready for work (where I am typing this.) I won't get a chance to play again until tomorrow night. If I don't get any other replies, I will see if I can figure it out and post my results.

Has anyone else gotten the 'this body is only a vessel' speech?

fable · Post by **fable** » Thu Nov 21, 2002 1:50 pm

Valygal isn't mad at me, Lavok is. When I defeated Lavok I didn't get the thanks for killing the demon within me speach. Instead I got something like 'you haven't defeated me, this body is only a vessell', then he ended the dialogue and turned red. Now he won't talk to me. This leads me to beleive I didn't kill the demon possessing him.

Oh, that. It's the thing Lavok says just as he finds you, right before you're supposed to fight him. Once you get him down to seriously wounded, the possession should cease. I can't say I've tried to bring the sphere back without first disposing of the lich; I don't know whether it would work, or not. In any case, since you have to crisscross the room a few times, you'd still have to avoid the lich. Best to dispose of it.

I tried to whack on him some more, and after about 1,000 damage I just stopped.

Huh? Lavok's body is pretty weak. His only weapon is his magic. A Pierce and a Breach should take care of that, then just send in a warrior or two to whap him a few times. He's pretty easy to defeat.

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Thu Nov 21, 2002 3:45 pm

its likely a unkillable bug....sounds like this is identical to the damaged to death before dialog initiated bug to me....

certain chars become unkillable if you whaled on them before you talked to them, and made them hostile so their dialogs dont trigger...a variant of this is making whole party protected from undead before attacking kangy...

reload is the only solution i can think of....

a exploit with the sphere is if you pickpocket lavok before you meet him, you end up with two rings of acuity...

Skooter327 · Post by **Skooter327** » Thu Nov 21, 2002 4:03 pm

Originally posted by fable
...he would have given the mage stronghold (the Planar Sphere) to any party led by a mage or sorc.

Does the leader have have to be the protagonist? If a MP, PC char. works, will an NPC leader (like Jan) work as well (in a single-player game)?

fable · Post by **fable** » Thu Nov 21, 2002 4:06 pm

Originally posted by Skooter327
Does the leader have have to be the protagonist?

It only looks at the PC's class. You can have a party NPC in charge of your group, but it doesn't affect the stronghold that's available.

EDIT: Lavok's health will be in an awful state after the battle with you. Personally, I suggest a few healing spells. Otherwise, he might die before you can return with the heart.

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Fri Nov 22, 2002 3:38 am

fable, lavok has a minhp undroppable item, like a troll, the item does not delete itself until the last dialog is complete...this is in fact the way trolls work, the first form is unkillable until you apply enough damage, then the item disappears, and the final form can be killed...i am explaining this badly, wes explained it to me some months ago, and i am just trying to pass on the gist...

Screaming Johny · Post by **Screaming Johny** » Fri Nov 22, 2002 8:48 am

Results

I said I would let you know.

As user suggested, I was able to use the heart, but I was not able to initiate any dialogue with Lavok resulting in not getting my stronghold.

I don't have any saves but for some reason using a Sorcerer wasn't as satisfying this time anyway. So I started over going solo again with a Kensai/Mage/Theif. Having fun again.

Thanks everone for the help.

fable · Post by **fable** » Fri Nov 22, 2002 9:25 am

Originally posted by UserUnfriendly
fable, lavok has a minhp undroppable item, like a troll, the item does not delete itself until the last dialog is complete...this is in fact the way trolls work, the first form is unkillable until you apply enough damage, then the item disappears, and the final form can be killed...i am explaining this badly, wes explained it to me some months ago, and i am just trying to pass on the gist...

I know from experience that if you get Lavok down to the point where he's unpossessed, and he passes along the quest of the demon heart, it's quite possible for him to die before its completion. Or put it this way: in the first two of five completed games, by the time I made it back from the ice and fire chambers, Lavok's body was gone from where I'd left him.

So I backtracked, healed him up a bit from near death, went off and fought the interdimensional nasties, and came back to find him in the same gruesome shape he'd been, before. Didn't take any chances after that. You make it sound like a bug, and frankly, it seemed like a poor concept at the time; a quest giver shouldn't die at that point. But he did.

garazdawi · Post by **garazdawi** » Fri Nov 22, 2002 12:54 pm

Originally posted by fable
I know from experience that if you get Lavok down to the point where he's unpossessed, and he passes along the quest of the demon heart, it's quite possible for him to die before its completion. Or put it this way: in the first two of five completed games, by the time I made it back from the ice and fire chambers, Lavok's body was gone from where I'd left him.

So I backtracked, healed him up a bit from near death, went off and fought the interdimensional nasties, and came back to find him in the same gruesome shape he'd been, before. Didn't take any chances after that. You make it sound like a bug, and frankly, it seemed like a poor concept at the time; a quest giver shouldn't die at that point. But he did.

his never happened to me.......strange

I've played through it like 20 times and never did Lavok die before I got out of the sphere. Maybe u had some poinson running in him after the battle or a mod installed that changes this?

fable · Post by **fable** » Fri Nov 22, 2002 1:14 pm

Originally posted by garazdawi
his never happened to me.......strange I've played through it like 20 times and never did Lavok die before I got out of the sphere. Maybe u had some poinson running in him after the battle or a mod installed that changes this?

No mod, no poison. It was weird--I even asked about it on these boards at the time. He was missing when I came back from dealing with the ice and fire elementals. I finished the rest of the quest, and he never appeared when I returned to the city.

So as I said, I backtracked, and healed him up. Then when I returned, he was still around. This happened in my next run-through, too.

JackOfClubs · Post by **JackOfClubs** » Fri Nov 22, 2002 2:41 pm

Hmm. He does say he doesn't have much time left and you have to hurry. I wonder if there is a timer so that he dies if you take too long?

I always go downstairs and clear out the all of the engine room areas before I even talk to Lavok, so this has never happened to me. But as you say, it is strange...

garazdawi · Post by **garazdawi** » Fri Nov 22, 2002 4:58 pm

Originally posted by JackOfClubs
Hmm. He does say he doesn't have much time left and you have to hurry. I wonder if there is a timer so that he dies if you take too long?

I always go downstairs and clear out the all of the engine room areas before I even talk to Lavok, so this has never happened to me. But as you say, it is strange...

I always rescue Lavok first then, kill the deamons and then start the engine and then take Lavok outside. I once did this quest very early in the agme with a solo mage/theif (IIRC) and slept for like 12 days in one go inorder to regan life I lost and Lavok was still there when I came back. This major slumber festival was done after I met the deamons and was on my way to Tolgerias (or what the cowled wizard's name is), so I had already rescued Lavok when I slept......and as I said nothing happened.

did any1 have the same problem as @fable?