Who else is p.o'd about the limited NPC class selections.

Mythalos · Post by **Mythalos** » Tue Mar 27, 2001 9:28 am

I found it very frustrating having Imoen duel to mage when she was only a seventh level thief. Especially since I never dueled her, though I planned on it in BG2(she would be a level ten thief). Not to mention the fact that I had raised her intelligence to eighteen in BG1 so that she would make for a better mage.
I understand that the programmers had to weave her into the plot, but I don't see why she had to "lose" levels or abilities. Then there is the question: why is there only one "true" cleric that happens to be evil? I feel that there is not enough options(with respect to NPC class variations) to make a well rounded group.
I would appreciate any comments on the subject, however please don't be blatantly rude.

sigurd · Post by **sigurd** » Tue Mar 27, 2001 9:57 am

Anomen is a cleric, fighter from the start, but that is just a good thing, as all he will loose is one exp level.

True though, it is unbalanced, especially with thieves, Jan is always needed in most teams, probably in all teams in expansion since Imoens skills wont do.

Ajax · Post by **Ajax** » Tue Mar 27, 2001 10:03 am

I'm not PO's about anything in this game. I think the logic of Imoen was to have both skills available at the start of BG2. That meant she had to dual at seven. I however do not understand the logic of Nalia's dual or Yoshi's kit without any skill points.

And what is wrong with Anomen? I think he makes a better character than Vic anyday since he has those fighter skills. OK, 65% MR makes up for limited combat skills, but I think you have a valid choice for both good and evil. Sure Ano can be annoying voice wise, but who cares when he calls on his god to give him supernatural powers to go wack evil. (am I beinging to sound like Minsc *shudder*) Pick pocket the ring of regeneration for your healing.

I hope no one chimes in about Arie. I only reason why I pick he up is for the quest, and the bickering with Jaheira. But as for as a class the C/M just stink imho. No where else is the advantages of a single class so counter active than with a C/M. No Arie only spends a short time in my parties.

In BG1 I got use to NPCs not being maximized stat wise to match their classes. In BG2 its no different. For me the reason why I bring the NPCs along is for the extra quests and the extra dialog that usualy brings a smile to my face several times during the game.

Mythalos · Post by **Mythalos** » Tue Mar 27, 2001 10:11 am

You don't quite understand my point. I am saying that "I" CHOSE to have Imoen as a level 10 thief and that I would have dueled her in BG2. They "took" my "plan" away when they MADE her a level 7 thief.....that's what I'm upset about. I feel that I should have HAD more control over what I want my characters to be that rolled over from BG1. Of course I shouldn't complain about the characters that you meet in BG2. I didn't have the option(obviously) in BG1 to develop them.
As for Anomen....he is a perfect example. I don't care if he's tuff(that's not the point) I want a "true" cleric that is of good alignment, and I didn't want my main to be a cleric.

Mythalos

Ajax · Post by **Ajax** » Tue Mar 27, 2001 10:37 am

I have three options for you.

1. Hack Imoen or any of the NPCs to the class or level that you want.

2. Make a entire party of PCs that match your idea of the perfect party.

3. Deal with it and enjoy the bonuses you get from the NPCs dispite their sometimes pathetic levels, skills, or class selections.

Cheers

Drakron Du´Dark · Post by **Drakron Du´Dark** » Tue Mar 27, 2001 10:51 am

I can only give the same advice that Ajax have given you.
Now Bioware could not take every path that we made in to consideration in BG I into BG II, I have killed Edwin in BG I now he show up in BG II.
Also the skills that I chose to Jaheira in BI was the staff, she lost those in BG II (were she now uses a shield and a cub)
Bioware was forced to make the Characters like TOSC was never Played in XP terms because of the people that never buy TOSC and install those.
Acording to Imoen history after the end of BG I she dual to a mage.
Now Nalia as a thief is easy to understand, under the keep quest she does say that she sneak out of the keep at night, now the mage path that she took can be explained as something that she either undertake on her own or her family inposed that on her.

Mythalos · Post by **Mythalos** » Tue Mar 27, 2001 11:26 am

Well I do not want to use editors to change Imoen around as I have "dealt" with it. I wanted to see what others felt about the transition from BG1 to BG2.
This is why I usually stick to pen-and-paper RPG's. I am not limited to the technology available. The imagination and old fashioned "physical" record keeping allow me the ability to progress my character as I see fit.

Mythalos

Mythalos · Post by **Mythalos** » Tue Mar 27, 2001 11:26 am

Well I do not want to use editors to change Imoen around as I have "dealt" with it. I wanted to see what others felt about the transition from BG1 to BG2.
This is why I usually stick to pen-and-paper RPG's. I am not limited to the technology available. The imagination and old fashioned "physical" record keeping allow me the ability to progress my character as I see fit.

Mythalos

Quitch · Post by **Quitch** » Tue Mar 27, 2001 3:06 pm

They "took" my "plan" away when they MADE her a level 7 thief.....that's what I'm upset about. I feel that I should have HAD more control over what I want my characters to be that rolled over from BG1

And in doing so created a situation where they could actually balance the monster load by havign some idea of what you'd be able to throw at them.

And for goodness sake, most people lost entire NPCs, having Imoens levels played with is the least of the editing

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Quitch, being the Ranger known as Skyhawk, is a proud member of The Brotherhood of the Woods

mizuno · Post by **mizuno** » Tue Mar 27, 2001 4:14 pm

it is IMPOSSIBLE for bioware to make anyone happy. and IMPOSSIBLE to let all the players' BG1 NPCs to be rolled over to BG2. bioware already said that.

i am hapy with imeon's level. and a lot of ppl on this board forgot probably the most important potion, -- potion of master thievies, there are enough for you in the game, that you can do whatever u like, except backstapping, but if you like backstap, u should use a thief for ur pc anyway. and i don't like Jan cos he is mult-classed, nothing wrong with him but just lvl up a lot slower, aerie and jaheira already has low rate of lvl up, don't want another one.

anomen, of course can't compare with viconia in terms of his clerical skills, but in melee attacks, he is a lot better. but his personality really upset me, especially befor he got knighted. thus now i am using rander/cleric which is a lot better than anomen

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Mizuno is a Proud Member of the Brotherhood of the Woods

whitelight666 · Post by **whitelight666** » Tue Mar 27, 2001 6:08 pm

i have to say that personnally, i found the npcs in bg2 to be fine in their level balance and such, the only thing that bothered me was the Lack of npcs...i really wouldn't have minded not having my npcs from bg1 transfer over if i had a nice selection to choose from in bg2, that just wasn't the case. what npcs were there were well thought out and what i have come to expect and applaud from the BG series of games, but there just aren't that many of them!!!
thats my 2 zhents worth....

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Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and start slitting throats.
-H.L. Mencken

Stryfe the Sorcerer · Post by **Stryfe the Sorcerer** » Tue Mar 27, 2001 6:41 pm

In my humble opinion, I think Bioware did a great job on creating the current set of NPCs. Although we have to admit that something is lacking, I think we are intelligent enough to counter these problems.

MOST of the *ordinary* gamers (like me) are quite pleased with Baldur's Gate 2. But as they say, you can't please everyone, some of those are the *hardcore* i-have-been-playing-roleplaying-games-for-ages-and-i-know-everything-about-it kind of gamers.

We don't have to give ourselves problems just because NPCs sucks or such and such. We're just happy and having fun playing it.

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Stryfe, mighty (kickass) member of the Council of Mages

fable · Post by **fable** » Tue Mar 27, 2001 7:10 pm

I have to weigh in on the side of those who have been very pleased with the NPC choices made by Bioware. They were done sparingly, and show a care to prevent unbalance in the game. If you don't like the results, as Ajax pointed out, you can always use SK to craft yourself an uber-Imoen.

Weasel · Post by **Weasel** » Tue Mar 27, 2001 11:27 pm

Anti-Flame shield on.....<sneaks in> I would have liked a class of Anti-Paladins <sneaks back out>....

Jalios · Post by **Jalios** » Tue Mar 27, 2001 11:55 pm

i dunno...imoen can handle any thieving that she NEEDS to..she can find/disarm any trap, she doesn't need hide in shadows, she doesn't need high stealing (a mizuno pointed out, master thievery potions rock) there are also items in the game that will help imoen's ability's, gloves of pick pocketing, ring of danger sense, mercykiller ring.

BTW, i used SK after my third time through to change some characters..i made Valygar an assasin (made more sense to me anyway, he assasinated mages, would of made a good stroyling for him.), i made Aerie a Sorcerer and made Yoshimo a Kensai/Thief.

It was quite challenging making sure my parties were still 'bad' enuf to make the game challenging.

whitelight666 · Post by **whitelight666** » Wed Mar 28, 2001 12:40 am

i didn't say that bioware did a bad job with the npcs...its just that maybe they spoiled us in BG1 with the selection available... Personally i don't really mind that much, i usually play multiplayer and create at least half my party so it doesn't bother me as much, but say you wanted to create an evil party...how many choices do you really have? not many. or say you are a good party, and you want a single class npc mage...only one choice, and he's evil.
don't get me wrong, i love BG2, its just that part of the situation that bothers me...

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Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and start slitting throats.
-H.L. Mencken

Radek · Post by **Radek** » Wed Mar 28, 2001 4:08 am

BG2 is not a mission disc. BG2 is a new game with new Imoen, Anomen and so on. You are importing only YOUR OWN character, not Imoen or Anomen. That's why it doesn't matter what you did to Edwin or how you improved Imoen in BG1. Consider Imoen, etc., as completely new characters, well, with the same names you already know and with the history you have already met.

Loredweller · Post by **Loredweller** » Wed Mar 28, 2001 4:08 am

Well, IMHO, the selection of NPC in BG II is not bad, it is only thin. If you have rep. 20, you do not have a true (single) mage, for example. You do not have single classed thief for the second part of the game. Almost any class (save rangers) is represented by a single NPC, esp. in light of rep and alignment (oh yes, there is a pair of druids, too). BG I, IMHO, was far richer (25 NPC, i believe) and more variable.
Of course, it is quite a challenge to win with what we have, but i feel some sorrow for Dynaheir and Branwen, no match for them here ... it is discrimination, after all, if that worsest of males Edwin is raised and pop up here, while those beautiful females are lost forever

May your Protection form Evil never wear out,
L.

sigurd · Post by **sigurd** » Wed Mar 28, 2001 5:06 am

Well, Edwin is better than dynaheir anyday!

True that it is somewhat thin, especially for the evil parties. If they didnt take away yoshimo and added another neutral fightertype i would be happy, now being good is overrepresented, with more than twice as many than evil, as well as all classes possible.

The only big problem i really see is having a thief however, as Jan is just a multiclass thief, i would prefer Yoshimo, even if jan is good too

Loredweller · Post by **Loredweller** » Wed Mar 28, 2001 6:01 am

Originally posted by sigurd:
Well, Edwin is better than dynaheir anyday!

May i disagree? He might be more potent mage, i admit, but that's all - in terms of *roleplaying* save if you're evil.
L.