Is SYM dying?

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Mon Jun 30, 2003 11:15 am

Sorry for the depressing topic, but the question needs to be asked..... And I didn't want to risk turning Enchantress's thread into a death knell....

Over the last half year or so, maybe longer, things have changed around here... I have spoken about this with many people... My own feeling is that the polarisation that occurred over Iraq had a great deal to do with this... Friendships were ripped apart.... opposing camps were estbalished... and what had been a fun place to hang out in became a virtual war zone.

Maybe some of it is that we have often all come here in part to escape "the real world," so the darkness we were all witnessing on daily news reports came crashing into what had been a largely happy universe. So many, upset by the strife and angst on the board, began to drift away.. posting less and less...

Or perhaps events in Iraq simply amplified a natural progression... Maybe a virtual community can only be sustained for so long... I don't know... and I hope that this is not the case...

But regardless... there have been deep changes around here.... and the question is.. what do we do about it? Do we simply allow things to follow what appears to be a natural course or do we try to remember what brought us all in the first place? Do we try to save what has been a very special place?

This thread is not intended to cause anger or bickering, nor is it meant to point fingers or alot blame... its purpose is very much the reverse... So please.. let's not relive the nastiness that has occurred over the last number of months.. Rather.. I am hoping that some collective soul searching can be constructive....

From my own point of view.... I have met many people here whom I care about a great deal..... Some of you have changed my life... This is not something I say lightly...
While I recognise that sometimes things must simply follow their course... I would be deeply saddened if SYM became a memory....

CM · Post by CM » Mon Jun 30, 2003 11:24 am

Well i brought this up in a post before. It is dying. These are my views. SYM is now a club of people who are close in real life and over the net. Plus the age group is older. The reason i dont post is because i dont relate to the people who post here. I am 21 i get along really well, with Tybs, Kid, Mar, E-man and the slurrs etc. But either they post somewhere else or they dont post at all. So if the people i get along with arent here, i have no reason to post.

Second of all if you notice that posting has stopped, 2 reasons in my opinion. The kids or the spammers have moved and the older group is left who spend more their time pming or talking or debating than spamming.

SYM was fun because it was easy going, you could spam and just not do much. People would log on and just do stupid things. Not anymore. People rather debate than spam, and those who create spam threads see their threads go down while other serious issues go up.

Now the age group is like 10 years older than me, they have different interests and frankly this site is no longer fun or diverse. It is always the same old people posting in politics, one reason i dont post in politics anymore, because my views are over looked, not out of spite or anything, but just that people wish to discuss with those who are older and know more.

An example sleep opened a thread about Neitzhe or whatever. I post there with 1 line. Some 15 or 20 posts later CE basically says i make a point and only then do people start discussing the issue. It is because CE brought up the idea that it was discussed further. It isnt a problem with SYM, it is just an issue with real life. You listen to those you respect and those you know, know something. Anyway that is my 2 cents.

Zelgadis · Post by **Zelgadis** » Mon Jun 30, 2003 11:31 am

SYM has seemed to have become more serious than it used to be. Seems like most the threads are labeled no spam, are a quick rememberance of someone who died, or a quick question that falls off the page after five or so posts. Gone are the threads that would set us giggling as we scrolled through the pages. I think maybe we have all become a little to intellectual, trying to one up each other with our arguments and opinions.

Maybe we need some new blood, spamming blood

. All the old rivalries seemed to have puttered out, and our wit just falls into the same patterns. Really, you can ussually make a general prediction on what will happen to a thread.

Enchantress · Post by **Enchantress** » Mon Jun 30, 2003 11:38 am

I don't know what to say because I never really saw the real hey-day of SYM a couple of years ago. I've heard how great it was though and re-reading old posts, I wish I'd been here then.

But I guess all things change. I don't know what can be done to inject some life into it again. But I've met some wonderful people here by and large so I'm grateful for that at least.

KidD01 · Post by **KidD01** » Mon Jun 30, 2003 11:47 am

*Sigh* Since i'll be rarely posting due my RL stuff and several factors, I'll be blunt. If some of you got offended, then take it or leave it.

From my observation, the forum starts getting too serious (in term of the topics - too much politics yet some of the members are youth who don't can't stomach such topic) In the discussion members sometime oversteping the rules boundry in several factors especially in those serious threads. (There are several posts which I was surprised not edited or the poster being warned due his/her post) I've seen one argument getting countered by almost the same argument over and over again by same person - more like shoving his/her point of view right into other throat. Is that healthy discussion ?*shrugs*

If you think I posted some murmur about Discussion or etc etc in my Thoughts of the Day thread for nothing, so be it. I've try to remind fellow SYMers for not getting too emotional in the discussion. Seems like the effort fail somehow

Some of you who read this will say "hah, you don't even active in discussion and dare to comment on us ?" I've seen how bad flame wars is. Which is why I'd rather stick in the side line and read the replies - besides my English vocabulary are limited

I do participate sometime though - I'm very picky on the topics.

I can't blame anyone for the state of SYM now or point fingers who the guilty one on the recent incident. It's just an effort by a member trying to revive SYM spirit by posting un-ortodox thread which some how gone sour and drags down a member which happen to be a mod also.

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Mon Jun 30, 2003 11:55 am

Well i brought this up in a post before. It is dying. These are my views. SYM is now a club of people who are close in real life and over the net.

I think this is actually quite true... Many people here have now met one another in real life.. and I am wondering if this has, in a way, also caused them to drift from SYM... Because if you see one another regularly, phone one another.. chat on icq/msn.. suddenly the reasons for spamming/chatting/meeting on SYM are perhaps less compelling. For one thing, when you get to know somebody beyond a superficial level, your topics of conversation are not necessarily something appropriate for public viewing.

However, that being said, I know well that even a year ago I was having intensely personal conversations with people over icq/msn... but we still spammed on SYM...

Or maybe it is just that you can only go so far, and then the social needs of meeting in real life to sustain a friendship become more significant. If this is the case, it is quite depressing from my own perspective because in terms of location I am quite remote from nearly everyone on this board...

I am also wondering if part of what caused the open fighting and hostility is, ironically, related to the fact that people did become quite close.. to the point where SYM felt like visiting family..... And as we all know.. we feel comfortable releasing aggression and so forth around those with whom we are intimate... The only problem is that in a virtual environment the normal coalescing factors that usually help to hold a family together do not really exist...

Enchantress · Post by **Enchantress** » Mon Jun 30, 2003 12:03 pm

Originally posted by dragon wench
I think this is actually quite true... Many people here have now met one another in real life.. and I am wondering if this has, in a way, also caused them to drift from SYM... Because if you see one another regularly, phone one another.. chat on icq/msn.. suddenly the reasons for spamming/chatting/meeting on SYM are perhaps less compelling. For one thing, when you get to know somebody beyond a superficial level, your topics of conversation are not necessarily something appropriate for for viewing.

This is an interesting point but I guess whenever I've chatted to people on the internet, I've always had the goal of meeting those friends in real life. It just seems a natural progression to me. Meeting people has made spamming with them more fun, in my opinion.

Tybaltus · Post by **Tybaltus** » Mon Jun 30, 2003 12:09 pm

Well Im not sure exactly what could have culminated in the quiet nature of the site. I think it IS a bunch of different things adding up to one thing. The ICQ/MSN conversations, the political drifts, the heavy debate feel, the formation of new forums, the real life meetings, and yet all of this happens at the same time, roughly the same time.

I know I can say why *I* drifted away, initially. I started to feel more comfortable posting at another forum. There are many reasons why I feel more comfortable at another forum, and I wont name them, if you want to know why, feel free to pm me. So I drifted away from here, but was lured back by a good friend who posts here (AC).

So, with that said, I hardly ever threw in my hat in the debates, I dont like IMs so much, I never met anyone here in RL, and I only was annoyed at the political threads if they invaded the forum.

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Mon Jun 30, 2003 12:14 pm

Some of you have mentioned that the spam topics have been looked over in favour of the more serious political ones....

Again.. I think Iraq has had much to do with this... Prior to the war a blend of spam-oriented and serious threads happily co-existed, and the same people would often post in both. And age was not a factor... we were all united by a shared interest in fantasy/rpg... in essence shared interests were a levelling factor that pulled together all ages....

But serious global events overwhelmed us I think... Those of us whom are older, who perhaps know more of global history, could not shut out our fears and worries..

However.. as I said in my original post.. this thread is not about allotting blame or engaging in bitter recrimination.... I think the factors are multifaceted and very complex...

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Mon Jun 30, 2003 12:21 pm

Originally posted by Enchantress
This is an interesting point but I guess whenever I've chatted to people on the internet, I've always had the goal of meeting those friends in real life. It just seems a natural progression to me. Meeting people has made spamming with them more fun, in my opinion.

I agree, and I have long wanted to actually meet people that I have encountered in SYM. Maybe it is just that if realising meeting is nearly impossible.. something happens... I don't know.

btw, If I sound conflicted or confused it is because I have the flu and am running a temperature... so please forgive my somewhat convoluted posts

RandomThug · Post by **RandomThug** » Mon Jun 30, 2003 12:35 pm

I dont know about you all but I wouldn't consider the board "maturing" into a debate thread a viable cause of death. For instance I have had fun posting in the Hangmen threads and the goof off crap and even though I am relativly new I can remeber it being a little different. But call me odd when I say I LOVE the political threads, I think logging onto this forum and see'ng important threads like "What happened in Iraq" or "Someone who held importance but wasn't really known died" is a lot better than "Look howmany times I can fart in a row".

I have learned a lot from SYM and perhaps thats why I love it. Knowledge. Perhaps the solution to the "death" of the SYM isn't removal of the more serious threads but perhaps a new forum that isnt SYM (Speak your mind) but DYAO (Debate your ass off)?

?

Gwalchmai · Post by **Gwalchmai** » Mon Jun 30, 2003 12:37 pm

Originally posted by Tybaltus
The ICQ/MSN conversations

*Tyb puts finger on it, IMO*

Galuf the Dwarf · Post by **Galuf the Dwarf** » Mon Jun 30, 2003 12:40 pm

Originally posted by dragon wench
I agree, and I have long wanted to actually meet people that I have encountered in SYM. Maybe it is just that if realising meeting is nearly impossible.. something happens... I don't know.

btw, If I sound conflicted or confused it is because I have the flu and am running a temperature... so please forgive my somewhat convoluted posts

Yeah, I kinda know how you feel about wanting to meet some of the people here. Of course, I myself live out in the sticks of my community, so I don't have alot of people to communicate with. Yeah, I do have a job, and I'm plannning to go to go college this fall, but that doesn't mean I'm tied down. I thought I would be at first, but now it doesn't fully seem to be the case.

SYM, as well as the rest of GameBanshee, has been an interesting experience. If I got a chance to meet you all, I bet it would be interesting, though I bet I live pretty far from alot of you as well. I still hope the best for this place and for us all, from this point on. It takes alot of guts to come to grips with reality, especially with war, and I do not doubt that you have had alot of courage too, DW.

You're not the only one that feels like their alone, if that's how you feel right now, dragon wench. I may have family, and I may know the people around me, but I feel a greater need to meet somebody special. My time will come, eventually.

Oh, you... uh, have the flu and a high temp? Ouch.

Hope you feel better and all,
Galuf the (Hopefully, Inspirational) Dwarf

Nippy · Post by **Nippy** » Mon Jun 30, 2003 12:40 pm

Originally posted by RandomThug
I have learned a lot from SYM and perhaps thats why I love it. Knowledge. Perhaps the solution to the "death" of the SYM isn't removal of the more serious threads but perhaps a new forum that isnt SYM (Speak your mind) but DYAO (Debate your ass off)?

?

You think exactly the same way I do Thug, excellent idea. Perhaps we should have a debate folder within SYM, where all the "serious" threads go.

As it stands, I'm not too sure about it dying, I can see it going either way...

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Mon Jun 30, 2003 12:42 pm

@Thug,
I love the debate threads too... I think that unfortunately what happened though is that they started to go beyond debate... People began slinging veiled personal insults or flames at one another.... rather than simply focusing on the topic at hand and just agreeing to disagree...

I think that in some cases our emotions stemming from a the way we felt about particular topic caused something of a blinding effect... and we lost sight of the human threads between us.

The Z · Post by **The Z** » Mon Jun 30, 2003 12:45 pm

I love spam, don't you?

BTW - this is one of those times where the "Blame Canada" song will not work...as far as I know it's not us Canadians' fault for the falling of the board.

On the other hand we could blame Willie Shatner...

Maybe we should start a massive RPG story with everyone in SYM involved as a character.....hell, we could have the Nameless One being a child of Bhaal, walking around with super mutants from Fallout while wandering the streets of Arcanum, all the while a rogue planar general plans his downfall in Easthaven......

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Mon Jun 30, 2003 12:45 pm

Originally posted by Nippy
You think exactly the same way I do Thug, excellent idea. Perhaps we should have a debate folder within SYM, where all the "serious" threads go.

I am of two minds on this. I think it is a really awesome idea, because it would satisify the divergent interests in SYM...

My only fear is that it could further polarise the community...

On the other hand.. we would just be formalising what already exists anyway....

Thoughts?

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Mon Jun 30, 2003 12:47 pm

Re: I love spam, don't you?

Originally posted by The Z
BTW - this is one of those times where the "Blame Canada" song will not work...as far as I know it's not us Canadians' fault for the falling of the board.

On the other hand we could blame Willie Shatner...

Maybe we should start a massive RPG story with everyone in SYM involved as a character.....hell, we could have the Nameless One being a child of Bhaal, walking around with super mutants from Fallout while wandering the streets of Arcanum, all the while a rogue planar general plans his downfall in Easthaven......

ROFL!

That would take quite a lot of coordination, but hey it might be fun

RandomThug · Post by **RandomThug** » Mon Jun 30, 2003 12:47 pm

@dragon

I understand that whole heartadly. I have walked away from threads in the past because like the farewelled gruntboy my emotions get the best of me at times. Which is sometimes a good thing for debates (emotion not insults). Perhaps we should concentrate on making new threads rahter than continuing to post in "Is sym dying" "this place is so dead"
etc. etc.

RandomThug · Post by **RandomThug** » Mon Jun 30, 2003 12:49 pm

Oh @Z there is NEVER a time in which one can not use the song "blame canada" for it is canadas fault in everything wronging that appears on this globe. The plauge that is canada is a horrid horrid thing.