Baldur's Gate bashing?

ZeggyZon · Post by **ZeggyZon** » Sun Sep 30, 2001 12:45 am

Been a Fan of the series for a while and have lurked here since the release of BGII.

Now that Pool of Radiance2 is out and there are some major technical issues with it, it seem fans are taking their anger out on Baldur's Gate. See here:

[url="http://www.sonic.net/~shawn/poolrad/Forum1/HTML/001925.html"]baldurs gate 2 was overrated and overhyped[/url]

I just thought I'd make you guys aware of it so you can defend the game since I think it really revolutionized modern RPG. In fact PoR2 was probably inspired by the whole Baldur's Gate series or Infinity engine powered games.

ZZ

Classic · Post by **Classic** » Sun Sep 30, 2001 1:29 am

Hmm, he is taking it a bit far, isn´t he?

Actually I kind of agree with him. Both IWD and PS:T had prettier graphics and a better storyline. That´s just my opinion, though.

ZeggyZon · Post by **ZeggyZon** » Sun Sep 30, 2001 1:54 am

Actually after reading the thread for a little while it appears the author actually was a former GameBanshee forums member that liked to troll quite a bit. Don't know if he was banned but it wouldn't suprise me.

After reading other topics about PoR2 whenever someone compares PoR2 to BG he immediately chimes in and bashes the BG series.

Oh well once a troll always a troll.

ZZ

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Sun Sep 30, 2001 2:20 am

Originally posted by ZeggyZon:
Actually after reading the thread for a little while it appears the author actually was a former GameBanshee forums member that liked to troll quite a bit. Don't know if he was banned but it wouldn't suprise me.
<snip>

Well all I seem to find is that he has been a member of "Black Isle boards".

Quitch · Post by **Quitch** » Sun Sep 30, 2001 3:35 am

Icewind Dale better than BG2 in almost every respect? LOL! Better dialogue??

Icewind Dale had dialogue??!

As for how he can argue PST (640x480) had better graphics than BG2 (800x600), lord only knows.

He is certinally off his rocker

Aegis · Post by **Aegis** » Sun Sep 30, 2001 8:31 am

@Xan: I'm pretty sure he was a GB member at one time. Don't recall what happend to him though.

This Roshan is very laughable. His arguements lack sustainance, and reliability. His arguement is that PS:T AND IWD are better then BG2. In others words, they need to be combined to be better, there not better just on there own. My advice, don't take anything he says to heart. As Kangaxx already said, he is a moron Troll who thinks he knows the most about RPG's around. We should introduce him to Fable, C E, T, Sleep, and myself. See how well he does then...

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Sun Sep 30, 2001 9:09 am

In many ways PS:T was better at being an RPG game than any of the others. There was a great plot and an excellent character generation, but it did lack a good graphics engine IMO and suffered from a lack of customisation.

Part of BG2's replayability and charm comes from the amount of options it gives you. You can play as any number of classes that drastically change the style of play. However the story suffers from what appeared to be a lack of time. It is good at first but degrades and becomes increasingly cliche.

IWD had a plot line of sorts, but it was more to facilitate the dungeon hack than the main principle of the game.

We are discussing 3 games which are at the opposite ends of the RPG spectrum.

Planescape was entirely story and character driven.

IWD was concerned with combat.

BG2 seems to tie the two ideas together having good combat with a decent enough plot.

Saying that any are better than the other is purely opinion based. it would be better if he was to categorise them and say they were better for certain reasons, not just make blanket statements that have no solid bases.

I shall return to my slumber and give back the soapbox

[ 09-30-2001: Message edited by: Mr Sleep ]

Aegis · Post by **Aegis** » Sun Sep 30, 2001 9:23 am

@Sleep: You are absolutely right. Each one of those games were build for a different type of gamer, namely Dungeon Scrawlers, Story fanatics, and middle roaders. Each has strong points, but each also has down points. It's all a matter of interpretation, and personality. I picked up PS:T when it was first realeased, and loved it. Thats not to say I didn't like the BG series, because I loved those two (In fact, It was either BG or PS:T that I would've bought that day, and it ended up being PS:T). For oine person to come up, and make such a blatently biased discussion is very fool hardy, and laughable.

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Sun Sep 30, 2001 9:33 am

It is the nature of forums to provoke such conversations, quite often people make statemtents without knowledge of the subject, either that or they are being trolls. I was interested to see the amount of people that disagreed and agreed with him. That is just more proof of how opinion based the subject is.

His comments actually had some merit, but there is a way of making these statements that he obviously is not aware of. Making categorical statements and expecting everyone else to aquiesce to your will is extremely short sited.

If he had merely made it a discussion and invited everyone to post their views and then put his point across, then people would be more resceptive to his point of view.

Quitch · Post by **Quitch** » Sun Sep 30, 2001 10:05 am

Dang, been trying to put a reply in the thread, but it's not taking it.

@Mr Sleep. I think your comments reflect the problem, that cliche is immediately thought to be bad. Things become cliche because of use, and they get used because people like them. The BG series may not have a plot that twists every five seconds, but then that's the appeal. You know what you're doing, who's the bad guy, and that you're changing the world. It's what makes it all so enjoyable.

I liked PST myself, but I know that some people have been put off because its plot and world are not as immediately accessable as the BG one. Don't knock cliche

Mr Sleep · Post by **Mr Sleep** » Sun Sep 30, 2001 10:21 am

You are correct, cliches give us a basline with which to work from. Without cliches every movie or book ever written would be arthouse and barely understanable, could you imagine sitting through Eraserhead every night of the week

Seriously though, the cliches in BG2 are just dissapointing since most of the plot is so inspirational and intersing

ThorinOakensfield · Post by **ThorinOakensfield** » Sun Sep 30, 2001 10:56 am

Originally posted by Aegis:
 We should introduce him to Fable, C E, T, Sleep, and myself. See how well he does then...

You?? One can't do much with just a fish. What this guy needs is a good big tank in his face aiming at his privates.

Anyway even though this fool is wrong, i guess we should respect his opinions.

Aegis · Post by **Aegis** » Sun Sep 30, 2001 11:03 am

@thorin: I'm not sure if your seen these, but when the lot of get into a discussin about almost anything, we are the ones spearheading most of it, and the ones who know what were talking about. When it comes to RPG's I have written tons of articles concerning their future, the decline of the actual genre, how people play, and what people are doing to the industry (Although, Buck has never responded to any of my attempts to post them on the site). Awhile back in the RPG forum, there was a huge discussion concerning D2, and whether or not it's actually an RPG. It's debates like that where I, and others on this board really shine.

Nightmare · Post by **Nightmare** » Sun Sep 30, 2001 7:00 pm

I haven't play PS:T, but I have to say that the story in IWD was the best. The scale of BG2 was excellent. IWD was great at following a story and completing it. BG2 had great elements that added on to the story. BG2 was "epic". IWD had better graphics, though.

The dialogue in IWD was better than BG2, though...

[ 09-30-2001: Message edited by: Gaxx_Firkraag ]

fable · Post by **fable** » Sun Sep 30, 2001 7:47 pm

Originally posted by ZeggyZon:
I just thought I'd make you guys aware of it so you can defend the game since I think it really revolutionized modern RPG.

No offense, but why should we scream at somebody whose opinion differs from our own? I've always thought that people who get angry whenever somebody differs with 'em are pretty insecure. I figure my life isn't threatened just because somebody has a strong disagreement with me over a game.

ZeggyZon · Post by **ZeggyZon** » Mon Oct 01, 2001 12:45 am

Originally posted by fable:
No offense, but why should we scream at somebody whose opinion differs from our own? I've always thought that people who get angry whenever somebody differs with 'em are pretty insecure. I figure my life isn't threatened just because somebody has a strong disagreement with me over a game.

Er because it pertains to something that you guys like. Since I figured people love this game sooo much here they might want to discuss it. I figured whats better discussion than this? Opinions are like *******s, everyone has one.

ZZ

fable · Post by **fable** » Mon Oct 01, 2001 5:08 am

Originally posted by ZeggyZon:
Er because it pertains to something that you guys like.

Sure, we like it a lot. But the fact that somebody else doesn't hardly rates a yawn.

After all, am I worse off because someone disagreed with me?

@ZZ, I worked for several years managing public radio stations in the US, back in the 1980's. I regularly attended Citizens' Advisory Board Meetings, where even our most fervent supporters occasionally disagreed with our policies, and anyone who showed up was entitled to speaking time explaining how terribly we were accomplishing our mandate.

I just listened. If you ignored the rhetoric and looked at the facts, I was the one in control: I made (with some excellent public help) the decisions. The only way I could lose control was by doing it, myself: by losing emotional control.

Everybody has opinions. I learn from those that disagree with me, if the opinions are well-reasoned enough. Sufficient?

Loredweller · Post by **Loredweller** » Mon Oct 01, 2001 6:22 am

Originally posted by Quitch:
[QB]

As for how he can argue PST (640x480) had better graphics than BG2 (800x600), lord only knows.
QB]

BTW, i'm even playing 1024x768

Bruce Lee · Post by **Bruce Lee** » Mon Oct 01, 2001 12:04 pm

I don't care which is better. I enjoy playing bg2 and that is enough for me.

Craig · Post by **Craig** » Mon Oct 01, 2001 12:29 pm

me too