Dualed Kensai/Thief
Dualed Kensai/Thief
I want to try a dualed kensai/Thief, but I'm not sure which level to dual over at. Any advice?
I would dual at 13, since you are dualing into a theif and theives level up quickly.
If I asked, would you answer? Its your problem. Its a deep, deep problem. I have no way to ask about that... I have no elegant way of stepping into your heart without tracking in filth. So I will wait. Someday, when you want to tell me, tell me then. -Bleach
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Screaming Johny
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This question has been asked many times. You can find answers by searching. But here is my answer anyway.
Beneftis:
Level 7 Dual as soon as you start the game & you get your Kensai abilities back by the time you leave Jon's dungeon.
Level 9 Max hp before it goes linear (3hp per level after this) Also get +3 hit/dam (+1 every 3 levels) & your 7th weapon proficiency.
Level 12 +4 hit/dam (+1 every 3 levels) & your 8th weapon proficiency.
Level 13 extra 1/2 attack. If you don't have Grand Mastery patch, this is the maximum number of base attacks (2/round) you can get in the game.
My recommendations.
If you don't have ToB or any patience, Level 7.
If you don't have ToB, but do have some patience, Level 9.
If you have ToB, and some patience, Level 13.
Oh, & if you don't know put 5 points in Katana or Staff(if you have ToB), they are the two best backstabbing weapons.
Beneftis:
Level 7 Dual as soon as you start the game & you get your Kensai abilities back by the time you leave Jon's dungeon.
Level 9 Max hp before it goes linear (3hp per level after this) Also get +3 hit/dam (+1 every 3 levels) & your 7th weapon proficiency.
Level 12 +4 hit/dam (+1 every 3 levels) & your 8th weapon proficiency.
Level 13 extra 1/2 attack. If you don't have Grand Mastery patch, this is the maximum number of base attacks (2/round) you can get in the game.
My recommendations.
If you don't have ToB or any patience, Level 7.
If you don't have ToB, but do have some patience, Level 9.
If you have ToB, and some patience, Level 13.
Oh, & if you don't know put 5 points in Katana or Staff(if you have ToB), they are the two best backstabbing weapons.
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Baked Goods
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Katana & staff (this is from my expirience, i'd like to hear what Screaming Johny has to add here):
base damage by a katana is 1d10. this means that kensai's "kai" (max damage on hit) ability will do wonders, as this damage is multyplied on a backstab. katana also has low speed factor (4) which of course decreases as you get magical katanas. my suggestion here would be for a 1-handed style (for AC bonus and improved critical chance, which adding up with *5 backstab and max damage will produce unbelievable amounts of damage) or duel-wielding for just over-powered playing style... try it you'll see.
quaterstaff is the only two handed weapon you can backstab with. thus, if you plan on making a 2-handed weapon using kensai (a very viable option, maxing out in 2-handed style for extra damage and -4 in weapon speed, making a two-handed almost as fast as a longsword in your hands) quaterstaff is the weapon of choice for him, not to mention other great two-handed weapons, which he can very effectievly use, as he will most probably have GrandMastery in two weapons.
a general suggestion i have on kensai-thief is this: after you dual-class, advance some levels as a thief (up to level 3 or 7), then STOP levelling up untill you have enough XP to re-gain your kensai abilities. this way, you won't have to waste precios proficiency slots on weapons you will never use, but you can add them to the weapons you are already specialised in. here's an example (a char i actually ran once):
level 13 kensai:
two-handed sword +++++
two-handed style ++
spear +
dual-class, level 1 thief:
dagger + (for the throwing daggers, as this is all this char did for some time)
1-handed style + (had to put it somewhere!)
level 4 thief:
quaterstaff +
stop levelling at lvl 7 thief
level 14 thief/13 kensai (two slots to add, from lvl8 and 12)
quaterstaff ++++
level 16 thief/13 kensai:
quaterstaff +++++
(some item spoilers):
there is a +3 katana that stuns on a hit (save vs. spell) that you can get Very early in the game. this is arguably the best weapon in SoA without ToB. it is defenatly THE weapon for a kensai.
there is a staff in ToB whic is the MOST damaging weapon in the game (1d6+12 crushing, +1d4 piercing) plus 15% chance opponent is kncoked back and stunned on successful hit. this is an upgraded item, but even it's +4 version (1d6+10, 10%) is agreat weapon, and you can get it while still in SoA, as it is in Watcher's Keep, which is accessable before mooving to ToB.
from my expierience this may be a somewhat frustrating weapon, as your opponents (beginning from the second one, as the first is blown to pieces, as you can emagine by a backstab with this monstrous weapon) tend to fly over the screen, sometimes into areas you do not want them to. this can be used to your adantage, but requires a some micro-management (such as alligning your thief to backstab like thus:
rest of the party enemy your thief
* * 0 0 <- *
* * * 0 0
so that when he fights, the opponent s will "fly" in the direction of the rest of your party, that can quicly finish him off.
this item can be OBUSED with "assassination" high-level ability.
also, with "use any item" you can use "staff of the magi" giving you unlimited undispellable invisibility (assuming you use the cloak of non-detection, but you probably are anyway) that can be re-aqured after a hit is made, + a "dispell magic" that actually works, unlike that of the Holy Avenger
base damage by a katana is 1d10. this means that kensai's "kai" (max damage on hit) ability will do wonders, as this damage is multyplied on a backstab. katana also has low speed factor (4) which of course decreases as you get magical katanas. my suggestion here would be for a 1-handed style (for AC bonus and improved critical chance, which adding up with *5 backstab and max damage will produce unbelievable amounts of damage) or duel-wielding for just over-powered playing style... try it you'll see.
quaterstaff is the only two handed weapon you can backstab with. thus, if you plan on making a 2-handed weapon using kensai (a very viable option, maxing out in 2-handed style for extra damage and -4 in weapon speed, making a two-handed almost as fast as a longsword in your hands) quaterstaff is the weapon of choice for him, not to mention other great two-handed weapons, which he can very effectievly use, as he will most probably have GrandMastery in two weapons.
a general suggestion i have on kensai-thief is this: after you dual-class, advance some levels as a thief (up to level 3 or 7), then STOP levelling up untill you have enough XP to re-gain your kensai abilities. this way, you won't have to waste precios proficiency slots on weapons you will never use, but you can add them to the weapons you are already specialised in. here's an example (a char i actually ran once):
level 13 kensai:
two-handed sword +++++
two-handed style ++
spear +
dual-class, level 1 thief:
dagger + (for the throwing daggers, as this is all this char did for some time)
1-handed style + (had to put it somewhere!)
level 4 thief:
quaterstaff +
stop levelling at lvl 7 thief
level 14 thief/13 kensai (two slots to add, from lvl8 and 12)
quaterstaff ++++
level 16 thief/13 kensai:
quaterstaff +++++
(some item spoilers):
there is a +3 katana that stuns on a hit (save vs. spell) that you can get Very early in the game. this is arguably the best weapon in SoA without ToB. it is defenatly THE weapon for a kensai.
there is a staff in ToB whic is the MOST damaging weapon in the game (1d6+12 crushing, +1d4 piercing) plus 15% chance opponent is kncoked back and stunned on successful hit. this is an upgraded item, but even it's +4 version (1d6+10, 10%) is agreat weapon, and you can get it while still in SoA, as it is in Watcher's Keep, which is accessable before mooving to ToB.
from my expierience this may be a somewhat frustrating weapon, as your opponents (beginning from the second one, as the first is blown to pieces, as you can emagine by a backstab with this monstrous weapon) tend to fly over the screen, sometimes into areas you do not want them to. this can be used to your adantage, but requires a some micro-management (such as alligning your thief to backstab like thus:
rest of the party enemy your thief
* * 0 0 <- *
* * * 0 0
so that when he fights, the opponent s will "fly" in the direction of the rest of your party, that can quicly finish him off.
this item can be OBUSED with "assassination" high-level ability.
also, with "use any item" you can use "staff of the magi" giving you unlimited undispellable invisibility (assuming you use the cloak of non-detection, but you probably are anyway) that can be re-aqured after a hit is made, + a "dispell magic" that actually works, unlike that of the Holy Avenger
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JackOfClubs
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I must say, this is brilliant. Although it could put your thief in some tight places while he's lying fallow.Originally posted by Mirk
a general suggestion i have on kensai-thief is this: after you dual-class, advance some levels as a thief (up to level 3 or 7), then STOP levelling up untill you have enough XP to re-gain your kensai abilities. this way, you won't have to waste precios proficiency slots on weapons you will never use, but you can add them to the weapons you are already specialised in.
Resistance to Tyrants is Service to God.
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Screaming Johny
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Katana & staff (this is from my expirience, i'd like to hear what Screaming Johny has to add here):
(slight Spoilers)
Mirk, you have it covered. The Katana that stuns (Celestial Fury) is the best SoA backstabbing weapon. The staff that knocks back (Staff of the Ram) is the best ToB backstabbing weapon. Staff also has the Staff of the Magi. Although you can't backstab with it, it is pretty darn powerful.
By the way, did you get that level up idea from me? I posted it about a month ago, and have never seen anybody else mention the idea.
(slight Spoilers)
Mirk, you have it covered. The Katana that stuns (Celestial Fury) is the best SoA backstabbing weapon. The staff that knocks back (Staff of the Ram) is the best ToB backstabbing weapon. Staff also has the Staff of the Magi. Although you can't backstab with it, it is pretty darn powerful.
By the way, did you get that level up idea from me? I posted it about a month ago, and have never seen anybody else mention the idea.
@ screaming johny:
while the credit is due, i'm afraid i thought of tthis about... a year ago or so, and even then when i enthusiasticly posted it i all the "been there, done that" replyes by those heavy posters with the post counts in the thousands... this game is so immense, that every half a year or so it spours a new community, while the old one moves to the next. i mean, the bg1 boards are STILL active... the bad thing about this is - some hard-corder has probably already tried that super-original thing you just found out at 3:45am last night... still, the fun of descovering a new way to make a powerful char - that's the recepie for staying up with souring mouse-fingers and leeking red eyes... ah, the memories...
while the credit is due, i'm afraid i thought of tthis about... a year ago or so, and even then when i enthusiasticly posted it i all the "been there, done that" replyes by those heavy posters with the post counts in the thousands... this game is so immense, that every half a year or so it spours a new community, while the old one moves to the next. i mean, the bg1 boards are STILL active... the bad thing about this is - some hard-corder has probably already tried that super-original thing you just found out at 3:45am last night... still, the fun of descovering a new way to make a powerful char - that's the recepie for staying up with souring mouse-fingers and leeking red eyes... ah, the memories...