Hah! Hah! The Irish will be sad!

[RandomThug]

A new law to be passed within Ireland will surely bother the whole lot of them irishmen. Hah!

Go Coors Light!

[Georgi]

The question is, will it actually cut down drinking by that much? Doubtful. I mean, you take away the drinks promotions - does that mean people aren't going to head down the pub for a few pints anymore? Yeah, right. I don't think the Irish will be all that bothered.

Maybe the English will be more bothered. Ireland, our neighbour with the relaxed drinking laws, you had to love it...

Whatever happened to that proposed legislation to extend pub licensing hours in the UK, anyway?

[fable]

Exactly as Georgi says. The Irish aren't known as a nation who pays attention to promotions, but a nation that drinks. Bit of a stereotype, I know, but still, it's the pub atmosphere and alcohol that sell the stuff. It's an old, old cultural trait predating the arrival of all those annoying saints in Ireland, and they've got their work cut out for them if they expect to change the drinking habits of the nation. A nuclear bomb might do it--but I don't guarantee that. I have a feeling that the Irish would be following an altered Maslowian hierarchy of needs, with shelter, warmth and food being joined by liquor in the top two tiers.

[Grendel]

Poor bastards!
Now who has a police state? A little too much intervention for my taste. Perhaps a public awareness health initiative would be more effective, TV ads etc. I mean, come on the government gets to decide if there is a happy hour or not?

Can't imagine current gov will get re-elected.

Oh well, have as many happy hours as possible until implementation.

[Gwalchmai]

But aren't the Irish always sad? Oh, no. Wait. That's the Scots I'm thinking of....

[Georgi]

Originally posted by Grendel
Poor bastards!
Now who has a police state? A little too much intervention for my taste. Perhaps a public awareness health initiative would be more effective, TV ads etc. I mean, come on the government gets to decide if there is a happy hour or not?

Well, if it causes a problem, then why not? If "Alcohol-related problems cost Ireland about $2.7 billion in costs for health care, crime, road accidents and lost productivity", then I guess it is a problem. However, like I said, I don't think it's happy hour that is causing the problem. If they could prove people were drinking considerably more because of happy hour, then it might be fair enough.

In New South Wales, Australia, they have a scheme called Responsible Service of Alcohol (RSA), which means anyone working in pubs (supposedly) has to do a one-day certificate learning about it. They teach you about the relevant legislation, such as how much you and/or the pub you're working in can be charged for serving alcohol to a minor, or to an intoxicated person. They teach you how to tell if people are intoxicated (heh ) and what to do about it. Officially, it is illegal to have an intoxicated person on your premises.

In theory it's a good idea - put more responsibility on drinking establishments to make sure their customers don't have too much to drink. However, it's not so easy to put into practice. To start with, there's the matter of that grey area - how do you tell who's "intoxicated" and who's just having a good time? In practice, bars just don't want to curtail their profits, so people are allowed to keep drinking unless they actually become aggressive.

Another part of the RSA is about marketing alcohol responsibly - happy hour is allowed, but only supposed to last for one hour a day. You're not supposed to promote getting hideously off your face as though it's a good thing. Promotional nights where ladies drink free aren't really considered responsible. But that doesn't stop people from going out and getting drunk if they're on a night out. I've spent quite a few nights out drinking in Sydney, and I haven't really noticed any difference from any other place when it comes to the number of drunk people. Nobody ever refused me service because I was drunk. (And I was, make no mistake. )

So I guess the point that I'm leading up to is that as long as people want to drink, publicans are going to provide the drinks. IMO if you want to change people's drinking habits, the government and the pubs can only do so much... you have to change people's attitude.

[Grendel]

Exactly my point. Attack it as a public health issue via awareness etc. Making it more expensive will have a marginal effect (the truely nicotine addicted continue to pay for hideously overpriced - read taxed - cigarettes). All this poorly thought out policy does is to eliminate happy hours and reduce promotional advertising and sales.

Happy hours do not per se induce heavy drinking - all they really do is lure people in to have cheaper drinks. The vast majority tend to drink what they would normally have drunk even if there hadn't been a happy hour. Some minority no doubt take it to excess, but probably would have done so regardless of whether there was a happy hour or not.

All publicans have a responsibilty to stop serving to obviously drunk people. It stops puking in the restrooms (we all appreciate that) and makes it easier to shut up shop at the end of the evening (jjhhust one morrre...). And they shouldn't be serving to underage persons anyway..

@Gwalchmai the Scots are ANGRY not sad...

[Latro]

It has not stopped Swedes from drinking so i do not think it will be noticable in ireland either!

[nael]

@Georgi-
the same is true for Texas, and I think for all of the US that it is illegal to have a drunk person in your bar and so of course illegal to sell to someoen who is intoxicated.
In a case against El Chico Mexican restaurant in Houston, Texas it was determined that the restaurant was liable for the havoc wreaked by the drunk driver who visited their establishment, even though the person had several drinks before comign to El Chico.

When I worked as a bouncer, we threw more people out for being drunk (asleep, puking) then for fighting or things of that nature.

[Tamerlane]

Question...

Originally posted by Georgi
In New South Wales, Australia, they have a scheme called Responsible Service of Alcohol (RSA), which means anyone working in pubs (supposedly) has to do a one-day certificate learning about it.

Is your certificate thingy recognised in the UK. You did do a course here in WA didn't you? Georgi the bar girl seems like a reputable job to me

[Georgi]

Re: Question...

Originally posted by Tamerlane
Is your certificate thingy recognised in the UK. You did do a course here in WA didn't you? Georgi the bar girl seems like a reputable job to me

Not AFAIK. And no, I did the course in Sydney - you know, in NSW, where they actually have laws. The pub I worked at in WA... well, let's say they couldn't care less how drunk someone was as long as the money kept rolling in.

One night, I was waiting to close up, and three drunk women came in. They told me how they had already been chucked out of a pub in the neighbouring town (so yes, one of them was driving...), and the one down the road. My immediate reaction (and this was before I had even heard of the RSA certificate) was that they'd really had enough to drink. Still, I was pretty certain that if I refused to serve them I'd get in trouble with the boss. As it turned out, he came in at that point and served them himself - and not only that, but encouraged them to buy some take aways before they left.

In fact, pretty much every night, we had the regulars who came in, took a seat at the bar and stayed there until closing. They put their money on the bar - they didn't even have to ask for more beer, you just automatically refilled their glass when they finished. By the end of the evening, they were pretty drunk. But you'd never dream of telling them they'd had enough. The only time I ever had a good reason (by the boss's standards) to cut a guy off is when he was abusive and offensive to just about everyone in the pub. That was one of two people I ever saw cut off, and the pub was full of drunk people every night. If the RSA scheme was running in WA, you could probably fine that pub a lot of money.

@Nael sure, but that is when people are noticeably drunk, when it actually becomes anti-social, like when they're falling asleep or puking or whatever. What about all the rest of the people in the place? I mean, you can be pretty damn drunk without falling asleep or puking. Theoretically, you're supposed to stop serving people alcohol before they reach that state of drunkenness. As if.

[Minerva]

Originally posted by RandomThug
Go Coors Light!

You sad b@stard... Coors Light? It's just make you want to go to pee more often than actually making anyone getting p!ssed. I don't regard that as alcoholic drink. Alcopop, maybe.

I agree with Georgi. I don't think this law would actually bother people much... Not as much as the smoking ban law, anyway. Okay, it might cut people drinking during happy hour, hence a pint less than they had been drinking, but that's about it. They drink regardless the ad or promotion. And, it's the English who's got worse attitude towards than the Irish, in my opinion. (sorry Georgi)

[nael]

@Georgi- we would also look for the swaying, red faces, slurring, etc.
we had $1 pint nights on Monday and Tuesday so we would get over 1,000 people in there, all getting plastered for less than $10. so, you get to know the signs REALLY fast in an environment like that.

we had oen guy who would come in every evening, drink till we closed, then go sleep in his truck. we would all hang out after the bar closed, drinking and eating leftover food that didn't get served, when we would leave around 4 or 5 AM, he would be waking up, and he would drive home and get ready for work. he was the vice president for commercial lending for a bank. every now and then he would get obnoxious and we would have to throw him out early, but for the most part we kept on serving him throughout the night (he tipped well), mainly because we knew he wouldn't go out and hurt anyone.

[Georgi]

Originally posted by nael
@Georgi- we would also look for the swaying, red faces, slurring, etc.
we had $1 pint nights on Monday and Tuesday so we would get over 1,000 people in there, all getting plastered for less than $10. so, you get to know the signs REALLY fast in an environment like that.

That's why it makes sense to legislate to stop pubs doing that kind of promotion... Essentially, you're saying "Come here tonight and you can get drunk really cheap", but at the same time "It's illegal for you to get drunk here, and if you do then we'll throw you out"... it's presenting two conflicting messages at once. But curbing promos isn't going to help too much without trying to change attitudes.

@Minnie no offence taken, I think a lot of English people do have a problem with drinking. Personally now, I go out for a few social drinks, but I don't like getting totally wasted. I used to: alcohol is a great uninhibitor, useful for someone who's shy and has no self-confidence. But I spent a couple of years getting really drunk, and by my second year at uni I was kind of bored of it. Getting so drunk you do stupid stuff, or stuff you regret later, or you spend ages vomiting, or feel like crap the next day... in my book, it's not really worth it. So it's only on the rare occasion that I get really drunk these days. However, I know so many people my age who would be out getting totally wasted every weekend (and sometimes on weekdays ) all through uni, and they haven't changed. And so many people are like that - they go out, and if they drink, then they're going to get wasted. It's not pretty.