I need more experience for my PC

Derrin · Post by **Derrin** » Sat Sep 13, 2003 5:27 pm

I'm relatively new in BG II: SoA. It's my second try thru and it seems I'm not good enough to get further than I did on my first attempt (which was a terrible failure and disappointment).
Anyhow I don't want to give up and I hope I'll be able to make it with a liittle help.
There are so many questions that would need an answer but alright here's the most pressing one.
1. Is there any place where I can put to death some monsters and get experience for my fighter and his companions? (I should probably specify I'm not referring to quests but random monsters, hopefully respawning from time to time). The only place of this kind I noticed it was in Irenicus' Dungeon (those mephit portals; but of course it's not worth it the XP killing them)

I find the game extremely attractive and full of resources but kind of difficult. For me at least. I would have expected to be something of Morrowind type but it's not.

2. Why are the monsters so strong? (it's more than a rhetoric question). In my first game they tore me to pieces several times (the lych at the city gate, a Cowled Wizard in the Docks area and later on, a bunch of vampires in that place -forgot the name- where you go to meet The Elven Queen). I also got Anomen killed in the Temple Sewers, then I was too afraid to return and recover his stuff; frustrating, isn't it? I mean how is it possible for those goddam evil wizards cast lvl9 spells while my mage (Aerie) was merely lvl7? There's something I miss in this picture, that's for certain.

If anyone is willing to help me somehow, I assure you any opinion is more than welcome.

Thank you in advance!

Derrin

adventurerkilly · Post by **adventurerkilly** » Sat Sep 13, 2003 6:07 pm

Uhm.. actually, many people get the feeling that the game is too easy.. that's why they even make mods to increase the difficulty (just as they do in Morrowind).

So, as to your problem, I know this sounds stupid, but do you play on insane difficulty level? If yes, try reducing it to normal, or easy if you feel so weak. Again something stupid: Are you totally familiar with the interface? If not, you may want to read the manual again or do the tutorial mission. (Sounds weird, but a friend of mine didn't know you could use 'pause game' during battles... ouch!)

Liches and Vampires are some of the strongest monsters you can find, don't be bothered if they kill you from time to time. As for defeating such fiends, there is one essential thing: TACTIC!!

Especially mages can be very easy to kill sometimes. The cowled one in the Docks (wasn't that Rayic Gethras?) for example can be dealt with instantly; just let him speak, position your fighters around him, and once he attacks immediately use breach on him. Once his protective spells are removed, your fighters turn him to goo. This is generally the tactic for most enemies, rush them with your tanky chars and have the spellcasters support (ie. weaken the enemy, strengthening your party or direct damage).
If that doesn't help, consider restructuring your party. You should have at least 2 tanks (such as Minsc or Keldorn for example), a thief and a mage (e.g. Imoen or Edwin). If you have trouble dealing with heavy critters, such as vampires, you may want a cleric to cast protective spells. If you have your tanks hit the monster and your casters standing behind and protecting, you should get along fine.
Oh, and one last thing: some things you shouldn't try and some places you shouldn't go if your level is not that high. The sewers, e.g. can be a dangerous place if you go there right at the beginning and encounter the thugs in the northern region... or if you start getting mad at Firkraag at charlvl 10 or below.... Try leveling your party before venturing to places you find rather hard!

As for lvling up, if you do most of the quests, it should be a nice basis. Have you looked for additional quests? Talk to people, loot all houses, travel everywhere you can. Some quests can give you loads of xp!
If you want monsters to lvl, I think the generic ones are based on your level. I know you can even get generic liches in places like, say, the Shadow dungeon. Just go there, rest, and hope to be attacked!

Don't give up! We all had our trouble in the beginning, but you get used to it very quickly!

Derrin · Post by **Derrin** » Sat Sep 13, 2003 8:29 pm

Yes, you're right about levelling the party, that's what I'm trying to do, I hope having more luck this time. I'm on my way to Shadow Dungeon (though I got no ideea where this might be but hey I hope I'll find it sooner or later

)
About tactic, well, my favourite one was 'hit and run for your life' but soon it proved to be a bad ideea...

Those baddies kept always chasing me.

garazdawi · Post by **garazdawi** » Sun Sep 14, 2003 5:46 am

fleeing from a battle is VERY hard.... theonly way you can get away is if a large monster gets stuck ina doway.... or you change area via the map (not through a door tjough as monsters can follow you through doors). A good tactic when facing partyies of enemies is to take out there mages first and then focus on the heavy physical damage monsters..... when facing vampires you kinda have to cast protection again negative energy on your fronliners and then just charge..... when you egt rid of the level drain the vamps are not really all that though (IMO)

highlight for an XP finding SPOILER De'Arnise's keep and Umar hills are really good places to get some great XP as is Trademeet..... you don't have to kill the hardest ppl when you go there the first time as they see you as too weak to bother them and they hence wont kill you.... you can ofcourse beat them but without cheese this is very hard....as for cheese you can ofcourse use it but I find it to be spoiling the game (no offence @User

)

IHateUsernames · Post by **IHateUsernames** » Sun Sep 14, 2003 6:26 am

Originally posted by garazdawi
as for cheese you can ofcourse use it but I find it to be spoiling the game (no offence @User )

Ye of litle faith, thou shall be struck down by my 3 Ring of the Ram, with the Gembag trick, and surrender to my 25 charisma.

And be slayed by the Bunny Nuke, while i stay unharmed.

Derrin · Post by **Derrin** » Sun Sep 14, 2003 6:55 am

I never take advantage of spoilers, never cheat. Thank you anyway, garazdawi

As for you, IHateUsernames, continue on this path, and you'll soon fall on my blade,
you deviant one!

Sulik · Post by **Sulik** » Mon Sep 15, 2003 5:51 am

what i usually do is replay the introduction atleast twice....
if u have a fighter, just pick up imoen and go all the way through the first dungeon (until imoen gets picked up and sent to the asylum) and then i do the circus quest... then save ur character, export and start a new game normally... that should get u a 150,000 exp or so boost, which is VERY useful early on

then the rest is about strategy... when facing badass undead (lich and vampire) never ever just go rushing in... +2 arrows and spells, traps, etc, to weaken them first, and lure them out one by one if u can.... and definately leave the lich until last, until ure level 14-15 or so atleast

nephtu · Post by **nephtu** » Mon Sep 15, 2003 9:08 am

Well..

Without using cheats, fiddles or spoilers, here's what I'd suggest.

1) Save often
2) Think about your party makeup - wander around town a bit and see who you can pick up for party members. You'll want to try to find the right party for YOU
3) Plan your fights a bit. If you lose, rethink the fight. Remember there are more options available to you than just dashing in - sometimes you can split a few enemies off and ambush them, which is a perfectgly legitimate tactic. You can use throwaway pets to make the enemy waste their best spells, etc.
4) Pick your fights. There are encounters you're just not ready for yet - for example, Trenor and friends in the sewer can be a pretty tough fight unless you have the right gear and abilities. Unseeing eye is a very tough quest, unless you have the shield/cloak of cheese (you'll know them when you see them) I tried that one early first time, and got my head handed to me on a platter.
5) Talk to a lot of NPCs - get a bunch of quests and see which ones you can do. Remember, you don't have to finish one before starting another.
6) Think about vulnerability. Use your opponents weaknesses.
7) Make sure your casters have decent spells. The spellbooks & choices most NPCs come with are pretty lame.

I personally use a lot of somewhat cheesy tactics - especially traps, fog-of-war, zone splits, and the inability of NPCs to open doors

The early part of the game can be frustrating, so hang in there and soon you'll be a godlike avatar of destruction, or at least able to kick Trenor's butt pretty handily

Good luck!

IHateUsernames · Post by **IHateUsernames** » Mon Sep 15, 2003 9:46 am

Well, the above tricks are very usefull, with or without cheese, cheats and so on.

And the cheese I use is (mostly) for the incredible hard fights (were talking Irenicus here) and the 25 charisma and my natural 20 rep for shopping (DISCOUNT!!)

Besides, many tricks you use can be wieved as cheaing by someone. If its your first time through, no guides or anything, not talking to anyone about it you are not using any kind of "cheat" (for a lack of better word)

After your initial runthrough you know some enemies location and such, and use this naturaly.

Well, after typing that it does seem a bit stupid. Just forget that.

(cheaters)

Derrin · Post by **Derrin** » Mon Sep 15, 2003 2:39 pm

Thank you all guys. I've learned a lot from you and I'm sure there are still many secrets to be discovered.
"Use your opponents weakness"? Alright, this would be ideal but how? There's no way to find out more about all those critters and that makes me feel blind during the encounters. It's probably one of the bad aspects of this game...

nephtu · Post by **nephtu** » Mon Sep 15, 2003 3:22 pm

Weaknesses

Enemy weaknesses:

No one knows them in advance - I've played all the way from start of BG1 to the end of ToB, and I'm currently playing a MOD game and being pulped in Eclipse. There is, however, a fair bit you can know in advance about weakness & strengths - general examples:
Casters don't have a lot off HPs - disable their spell protections (or wait them out safely out of range) and they're easy pickings.
Some melee don't have ranged weapons & can be sniped at range or pulled away from their pals.
A slowed melee is an ineffective thing
Undead are immune to most charm & mind control (as are bersekers). Good clerics can turn undead, evil clerics can control them (Vampire pets = teh win!).
Area attacks are good for taking out a large number of weak creatures. Static area effects can be a mixed blessing but sometimes enemies can be manoevered into their own Poison clouds, or yours.
Most creatures don't see invisible. A stealthy scout can poke around an area and scope out enemy forces, and often get away before they can get true sight off. Learn what creature have innate see invisible - mostly the tougher ones, like mind flayers, demons & dragons.
An ooponent with only a little health left can still put out as much damage as one that's at full health. Quick kills are very helpful - backstabs, traps, spell triggers can all help a lot with these.
Invisibility and regeneration abilities are invaluable. The ability to negate opponents invisibility (detect illusions, true sight, etc.) are too
You need to be aware of the possibility of traps when exploring. The sucky part is that monsters won't set them off.
Know (or learn) the kind of attacks creatures will make & use a kind of judo on them.
Example: Vampires will almost always seek to charm and/or level drain. If attacking one at lower levels, have negative planes protection a spell reflection up, and it may just charm itself, providing you with a very nice pet. I've had beholders do that frequently - vampires are mostly too magic resistant, but you can get lucky.

I'll take a concrete example from your experience so far, and see if it helps: Go back to the sewers where Anomen got killed. Send a scout to sneak around invisible or stealthed. Map the area out, if someone starts casting true sight or what have you, run like hell back to your group, safely parked near the zone out. Once you know where everything is, start clearing out the easy victims. Once you have all the yard trash clear, see if you can't pick off some of the harder targets. Save frequently. with care, you can get some nice experience, cash & prizes from that lot, even fresh out of the Irenicus dungeon.

Also, when you are getting your butt kicked, pay attention to what's going on so you can figure out countermeasures. Example: if you're being backstabbed, figure out a way to dispel the thieve's invisibility or make sure they're attacking someone with stoneskins. That's why you need to save often

Tactics & preparation are 90% of the fight.

Have fun!

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Mon Sep 15, 2003 7:27 pm

having a high level mage or cleric is invaluable for one single spell...animate dead!!!

love your summons, mordenkainen swords, skeleton warriors and later on devas, planetars and elemental princes!!!

heck, with skeleton warriors alone you can beat 90% of the regular game...unmodded...fire elementals, summoned by clerics can be a life saver vs beholders, and invisible stalkers are practically immune to mindflayers...

and learn to use haste and mass invisibility to make your summons incredibly more effective...

this is why a sorceror rules in the game....

Ron_Lugge · Post by **Ron_Lugge** » Mon Sep 15, 2003 7:37 pm

having a high level mage or cleric is invaluable for one single spell...animate dead!!!

Thats one reason Aeirie makes a nice cheese. Fill up all her spell slots with animate dead (botht he cleric and the mage ones of the appropriate level) equip her with vecna's robe and amu of power, then use project image with a timestop alacricity combo (takes her at a very high level to pull off, but worthwhile). Yuo can cast so many skele's its ridiculous!

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Mon Sep 15, 2003 11:19 pm

heck, most of the time you don't even need timestop, acuity combo...skeletons last ALL DAY!!! they last 8 hours!!!

so plain and simple project image is more than fine for raising an army of about 10 skeleton warriors...haste and mass invisibility, and they turn into unstoppable fodder....

i took 5 skellys into the mindflayer lair in the underdark, and last 2, while they completely cleaned out all the mindflayers...this is unmodded, of course...

IHateUsernames, I got some bad news for you...bunny nuke doesn't work....the wish spell version works differently than the regular spell version...sigh...while I am tempted to release a bunny nuke spl file, I want to get my new improved kensai sorceror druid cleric worked out, so will be hitting near infinity for a while...

Minerva · Post by **Minerva** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 4:10 am

For lower level, I recommend to have your cleric (or paladin) always Turn Undead while walking the city in the night and in dungeons. There are at least three side quests which involve many undeads, ie. shadows, gouls, and skelton warriors, and they can be nuisance for low level party. However, Turn Undead can reduce numbers you face at one time, even if you are not highlevel enough to destroy them outright. They will flee and won't attack you (providing you have good/neutral aligned cleric), so your other party members can whack them one by one.

I also enjoy watching my high level cleric explodes undeads.

Sulik · Post by **Sulik** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 4:21 am

i just wanted to ask, do you guys concider playing with one character to get experience, then exporting them and starting a new game with them as "cheese" or cheating?

Minerva · Post by **Minerva** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 4:57 am

Originally posted by Sulik
i just wanted to ask, do you guys concider playing with one character to get experience, then exporting them and starting a new game with them as "cheese" or cheating?

Personally, yes. Unless you imported the character from BG1 with more experience (and added stats given by tomes). That's regitimate, I think.

IHateUsernames · Post by **IHateUsernames** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 7:01 am

@Jan, uh i mean User

I think i got it to work with my sorc, but that might be because i dont have the patches. I dd take a lot of damage though, so you might be right.

nephtu · Post by **nephtu** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 8:52 am

More stuff

Summons ARE very helpful - First time through, when I had no casters with spells above level 6 on my party, we stumbled onto the mindflayers and managed to beat them with just regular skeletons & invisible stalkers, plus some traps. (No mass invis, even). Of course, it's a bit different in tactics

Took three rests, I think, but no casualties. Mass skeleton warriors can take out just about anything, if it weren't for the vulnerabilities to area spells like death & death fog, they'd be perfect

Ron_Lugge · Post by **Ron_Lugge** » Tue Sep 16, 2003 11:47 am

Originally posted by UserUnfriendly
heck, most of the time you don't even need timestop, acuity combo...skeletons last ALL DAY!!! they last 8 hours!!!

Ah, but by doing it that way I can also enjoy emptying the rest of my spellbook at any nearby enemies.