the default parties

Lizzt · Post by **Lizzt** » Mon Nov 24, 2003 2:25 pm

Hello. I just started playing IWDII. I've been playing Morrowind, but I actually think I might like IWDII better.
My question: Has anyone at all used the default parties that are provided? I'm considering that just to get going.

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Tue Nov 25, 2003 9:26 pm

If you aren't familiar with third edition D&D rules you might want to consider it. If you lack experience in this area, creating a party in IWD2 can be a bit overwhelming.

I began playing the game fairly recently, and I have already created several parties, I'm still not sure which I'll ultimately go with

Lizzt · Post by **Lizzt** » Wed Nov 26, 2003 9:18 am

I am not familiar with edition 3. I have not played table D&D in several years, so edition 2 was the last one I was familiar with.
I may create a party anyway however, because I want a Drow Ranger (like Drizzt of course) and none of the default parties offer Drows in anything but wizards.

I'm strongly considering picking the evil party if I use the pre-created group.

Thanks!

Galuf the Dwarf · Post by **Galuf the Dwarf** » Wed Nov 26, 2003 9:53 am

Originally posted by Lizzt
I am not familiar with edition 3. I have not played table D&D in several years, so edition 2 was the last one I was familiar with.
I may create a party anyway however, because I want a Drow Ranger (like Drizzt of course) and none of the default parties offer Drows in anything but wizards.
Thanks!

Honestly, from what I've experienced, Drow are best for these:

Male - Wizards, Bards, and Rogues. Possibly Sorcerors as well.

Females - Clerics, possibly Monks (I'd suggest Monk of the Broken Ones, in this case, since they can multi-class to Painbearer of Ilmater, which is a cleric, and so a female Drow wouldn't experience an Experience Penalty from Monk/Cleric levels being too far apart).

Rangers aren't as spectacular in 3rd Edition, to tell the truth. They do seem quite a bit more interesting in Edition 3.5, but for IWD2, Rangers aren't really suggested as a stand-alone character class.

One thing to be careful with is that you only have 16 points to place in attributes for ANY character, and so you'll have to place your point values wisely. Only even points (12, 14, 16, etc.) count towards bonuses to those stats and to abilities that are linked with these skills (i.e: A warrior's capabilities in combat works with Strength, a Sorceror's spells require A LOT of Charisma).

You really might want to read the game manual and descriptions in the game for more specific details. I'd like to explain more, but I think that would be A LOT of writing.

Good Luck.

Lizzt · Post by **Lizzt** » Wed Nov 26, 2003 2:48 pm

Thanks. I have been reading the manual, no need for you to spend more time typing!
What I'm going to do with the Drow is start him as a rogue and multiclass to a conjurer.

Galuf the Dwarf · Post by **Galuf the Dwarf** » Wed Nov 26, 2003 3:28 pm

Originally posted by Lizzt
Thanks. I have been reading the manual, no need for you to spend more time typing!
What I'm going to do with the Drow is start him as a rogue and multiclass to a conjurer.

Some questions, in that case.

1) What role is this Rogue/Conjurer going to play? Is this going to be your spellcaster, your main thief, or what?

2) What are your plans for other characters with this drow?

As for the default parties, I can say only a little about a few:

The Winter Rose - I wouldn't suggest this for a beginner. Those who start this game might want 3 warriors, a healer (Cleric or Druid, in that case), Rogue (Bard is one I wouldn't suggest for starters), and an arcane spellcaster (either a wizard or a sorceror, your choice). The Watcher's Constitution is too low, so he may not have a lot of Health Points (I'd suggest 16 in Strength, Constitution, and Charisma, and the initial 12 Wisdom, if you make an Aasimar Paladin of your own). Kebb Trapmaster sounds like the best of all of them, but could still possibly run into a rough spot.

The Hands of Fury: An interesting mold. The fact that this party contains a Cleric as the talker and a Druid as a Healer is interesting. Harbesh Carver, the Dwarf Rogue, may have some trouble doing his job, since he has low Dexterity (which is a must, in many ways) and Intelligence (goes towards the Search and Disable Device skills, the equivalents of Detect/Disarm Traps from Baldur's Gate).

Remember, though, that Bards and Sorcerors, if you take them, have Charisma as their statistics for spells and spell-casting. This is often a mistake that is made by those who start playing this game without reading up on 3rd/3.5 Edition rules. This doesn't sound like such a case, but I thought it would be good to remind you again.

Sound sufficient?

Lizzt · Post by **Lizzt** » Wed Nov 26, 2003 4:13 pm

Thanks. My drow is mostly going to be a conjurer. I'm only going to use the rogue skills for searching, disarming traps, and opening locks.
My other characters:
Shield Dwarf fighter/barbarian
Shield Dwarf Battleguard of Tempus
Human Morninglord of Lathander
Human Sorcerer
Aasimar Sorcerer

I'm going heavy on magic, and the Shield Dwarf battleguard can actually be a tanked up cleric, along with the SD fighter/barbarian as a tank.

Galuf the Dwarf · Post by **Galuf the Dwarf** » Wed Nov 26, 2003 4:46 pm

Originally posted by Lizzt
Thanks. My drow is mostly going to be a conjurer. I'm only going to use the rogue skills for searching, disarming traps, and opening locks.
My other characters:
Shield Dwarf fighter/barbarian
Shield Dwarf Battleguard of Tempus
Human Morninglord of Lathander
Human Sorcerer
Aasimar Sorcerer

I'm going heavy on magic, and the Shield Dwarf battleguard can actually be a tanked up cleric, along with the SD fighter/barbarian as a tank.

Hmmm... Sounds like you could be off to a good start. Here are some suggestions, take them or leave them as you wish, for your benefit.

1) You might want to make that Battleguard of Tempus a Gold Dwarf instead, since you might want 14 Charisma (at the most) for extra charges of "Turn Undead". Nothing big, though.

2) I might suggest that you go with only one Sorceror. The Aasimar, with the +1 Level Adjustment, may have trouble gaining as many high-level spells as your vanilla human Sorc. Aasimar are best as Paladins (their favored class) or Clerics, which may make them sufficient as a Morninglord of Lathander (though this is not highly encouraged)

3) You might want at least one more warrior. Maybe give the dwarf cleric some levels in fighter (four at the most)?

4) Hmmm. From what I can see, your party sounds a bit spontaneous and very benign in attitude. Am I accurate?

Lizzt · Post by **Lizzt** » Thu Nov 27, 2003 10:12 am

Yes, they are benign.
This party will be more combat intensive at the start of the game and get stronger and stronger in magic as the game goes on.
I've been told magic over melee produces the best results when I go onto HOF mode.
The shield dwarf claric is actually a battle-oriented/offensive spell cleric, and will supplement the main tank fighter, especially early in the game. And I'm only giving him a charisma of one, so I can bump up his strength, dexterity and constitution. I'm not concerned about him turning undead, my Morningstar cleric cando that.

Most of the standard cleric stuff will be done by the Morninglord, and I'm making him lawful good, which means when he gets to a level of 17 or so, I can cross him over to a Paladin.
The Aasimar does get the charisma bonus, but both sorcerers will gain charisma bonuses, so the
Aasimar will have 2 extra spells at the most throughout the game.
However, the human sorcerer will level faster.
The Aasimar has to invest 12 points into Intelligence to get Concentration and Spellcraft, while the human only has to invest 3 points.
By selecting a human and Aasimar sorcerer, they should have all of the powerful spells between them by the time I start HOF mode. This is a party specifically designed to get into HOF mode.

Galuf the Dwarf · Post by **Galuf the Dwarf** » Thu Nov 27, 2003 1:44 pm

Originally posted by Lizzt
Yes, they are benign.
This party will be more combat intensive at the start of the game and get stronger and stronger in magic as the game goes on.
I've been told magic over melee produces the best results when I go onto HOF mode.
The shield dwarf claric is actually a battle-oriented/offensive spell cleric, and will supplement the main tank fighter, especially early in the game. And I'm only giving him a charisma of one, so I can bump up his strength, dexterity and constitution. I'm not concerned about him turning undead, my Morningstar cleric cando that.

Most of the standard cleric stuff will be done by the Morninglord, and I'm making him lawful good, which means when he gets to a level of 17 or so, I can cross him over to a Paladin.
The Aasimar does get the charisma bonus, but both sorcerers will gain charisma bonuses, so the
Aasimar will have 2 extra spells at the most throughout the game.
However, the human sorcerer will level faster.
The Aasimar has to invest 12 points into Intelligence to get Concentration and Spellcraft, while the human only has to invest 3 points.
By selecting a human and Aasimar sorcerer, they should have all of the powerful spells between them by the time I start HOF mode. This is a party specifically designed to get into HOF mode.

Ah, I see! Nice plan, overall. However, there's something I better tell you.

If I remember correctly, the only way to have levels in either Paladin or Monk is start with either of those as your beginning class. Also, Paladins and Monks (as you must have read in the manual) have an order that they belong to, and have only one other class that they can multi-class to in order to level-up in their class again.

Paladins of Helm may only multi-class as a Fighter in order to level-up as Paladins again. Paladins or Monks of Ilmater can only become a Painbearer of Ilmater. Paladins of Mystra can only multi-class as Wizards (though many would argue that Sorcerors would be better, by quite a lot of people's standards).

Monks of the Old Order can only multi-class as rogues. Monks of Ilmater are mentioned above. Finally, Monks of the Dark Moon can multi-class as Sorcerers (Couldn't they have switched this with the Wizard for the Paladin of Mystra?).

From what I read in the Forgotten Realms book "Faiths and Pantheons," I have not seen any mentioning of Lathander really being a sponsor of Paladins. Ilmater definitely is, and Helm is generally worshipped by Paladins. Other gods that are generally known to have Paladins are Torm (god of Loyalty & Obedience; sponsor of Paladins overall), Tyr (god of Justice), and (to a small degree) Kelemvor (god of death and the dead, but a fervent hater of undead). Just thought I'd give you some insight into the Gods, in relation to these popular holy warriors.

You have a good strategy overall, but it honestly felt important to make sure you know that.

Lizzt · Post by **Lizzt** » Sat Nov 29, 2003 12:49 pm

Thanks for the info. Now that I look at it further, he isn't actually going to multiclass to Paladin, just add Paladin feats later on.
The chart I have says I can add a Paladin feat at level 17. At that level I can add martial weapon, long sword. By the time he reaches level 18, he should be able to use the Holy Avenger. Is adding the Paladin feat different from multiclassing?

Jatsu · Post by **Jatsu** » Sun Nov 30, 2003 12:28 am

I don’t wanna open up a can o’ worms here, but Lizzt’s party will indeed be quite cough ultimate cough as it has already been exercised and practiced by a team of play-testers in HoF, the writer/leader of which is an accomplished programmer, strategy/RPG gamer and otherwise master of logic named Ken J. Egervari.

In truth I myself have used his FAQ while creating my party, as my Human Sorcerer, Human Morninglord, and Shield Dwarf Fighter 4/Barbarian X were modeled loosely off of his.

Lizzt I don’t want to discourage you from using this party, as you surely will do well with it, but you would do well to keep in mind that one of the richest and most rewarding aspects of IWD II is that of roleplaying. Now, realize that that no one can tell you how to roleplay. There are no rules and regulations, although many look down on min-maxing the stats and races/classes for efficiency, as it is considered to be “powergaming”. In fact, you should already be aware of this, as the title of the FAQ itself reflects this

All I’m saying is that in my and many other peoples experience, when you cut and dry a party, planning out all of the skills and feats in advance, and choosing builds based on instrumentality, it can really stifle the air of the epic adventure that is Icewind Dale II.

Gherald · Post by **Gherald** » Sun Nov 30, 2003 7:12 am

Well, its been linked to elsewhere, but if you haven't seen the FAQ yet, try this link:

http://db.gamefaqs.com/computer/doswin/ ... ii_upp.txt

It really is useful information.

My personal recommendation is to give your Sorcerers 1 level of Paladin at the very beginning. I know the FAQ argues against it, but I think its very helpful to have proficiencies in bows, armor and sheilds for those odd times when you wish you could put one on your sorcerors.

I tried playing the Undead Targos mod on "insane" difficulty and I just couldn't deal with how weak my sorcerors were early on.

The +5 modifier to saving throws really rock, especially for your Aasimar Sorceror who otherwise would end up with NEGATIVE saving throws due to low attributes in DEX and WIS.

Your basically exchanging 1 level of spellcasting for a built-in ring of protection +5 and lots of martial weapons proficiences plus a few extra HP

Now your Human Sorceror with good DEX can use a bow, while your Aasimar takes an extra "Armored Arcana" feat later on (once you've exhausted all the good spellcasting feats) which will allow the use of a small shield when using a Sling or Darts. I recommend the "Footman's Folly" found at the beginning of HoF that will give your Aasimar +2 DEX, rounding it out to an even 10 DEX.

And you all thought there was no practical use for Armored Arcana

Lizzt · Post by **Lizzt** » Sun Nov 30, 2003 6:56 pm

You raise some good points about roleplaying. However, if I do that, I may have to use one of the default parties as I'm still unfamiliar with 3rd edition rules.
And I'm not sure I particularly like any of the default parties.

Gherald · Post by **Gherald** » Sun Nov 30, 2003 8:14 pm

If you are concerned about roleplaying, my advice would be to improvise.

Think of 6 different roles you want your characters to play, and just make them.

For example my first time through the game, without consulting any charts or guides, I choose:

Aasimar Fighter(4)/Paladin(x)
Shield Dwarf Fighter(4)/Barbarian(x)
Half Orc Barbarian(4)/Fighter(x)
Rogue(x)
Bard(x)
Sorceror(x)

I had never liked Clerics in BG2, so I just went with what I thought would be cool. Turns out Clerics kick ass in IWD2, but how was I to know that?

So, just make a haphazard party based on what you know of 2nd edition rules, and learn as you go. Play on "Normal" difficulty or, if things get tough, something easier.

There's no shame in using an easy setting your first time through the game. Unlike paper D&D, the best way to get a feel for a PC game based on 3rd edition rules is to just play the game, not by reading guides and memorizing charts...

I never considered the default parties an option, because I dislike the idea of "learning" what the creator of the party meant for each character to be. I much prefer creating my own.

Lizzt · Post by **Lizzt** » Mon Dec 01, 2003 10:12 am

I must admit, I was always extremely irritated at the old D&D rules limiting weapons and armor clerics could use. Whether they're primarily healers or not, they should be allowed to carry swords, or axes, etc if they want.

One question: With the numbers of larger monsters in this game, can monks be effective at all?

Thanks for all the info.

What I'd actually like to do currently is start a party of just single class characters. I don't really want to mess with dual classing anyone the first time through the game, I just want each character to be one class and stick with it throughout.

I'm thinking making the Drow a sorcerer, having one dwarf fighter, and having the rest all human, as they are good at anything.

So I'm considering a dwarf fighter or barbarian,
human fighter or barbarian,
human cleric (with fighting capabilities),
human (ok possibly a halfling) rogue (also have him protecting the sorcerer),
Drow sorcerer, with a longbow.
I'm wary of halflings because of their size and hit points.

I'd really love a 5 fighter/1 rogue party, but I don't think it's possible to have a party without magic.
If it is, I'd have 4 fighters, the cleric as a fighter also, and the rogue, in which case I'd likely make the rogue a halfling.

Lizzt · Post by **Lizzt** » Mon Dec 01, 2003 9:27 pm

Well, for what it's worth, I decided to stop thinking about forming just a combat party and I went ahead and did it. I'll just see how far I can get.
My party is led by Zima, a half-elf female bard. She has the charisma and diplomacy skills, plus a feat in the bow.

The rest of the party:

Beckah - Human female barbarian, dodge ability

Hackack - Half-orc male barbarian, greatsword proficiency

Nicotinius - Human Monk, proficiency with the axe.

D'a**** - Human male fighter with axe, bow, hammer, and ambidexterity.

Theodore - Human male cleric, with a mace proficiency.

I made this party up myself, although I did lower the intelligence and wisdom on a couple of the characters to bump up other attributes.

pschub · Post by **pschub** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 11:15 pm

the winter rose

I am actually having quite a good time playing with this default party... This my first 3rd edition d and d game to play so it has been a onthejob learning experience.

Lizzt · Post by **Lizzt** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 10:00 am

That's cool, because WR was one of the parties I was advised against taking.
I'm finding early on my all fighter party is bad when it comes to resisting magic.
When the goblins broke through the Palisades, half of my people got knocked out by magic. I had to reload a save game once, and managed to kill all the goblins the 2nd time, but some of the party still got knocked out for several rounds.

Lizzt · Post by **Lizzt** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 8:53 am

I've reconsidered my choices and I think I am indeed going to take a pre-made party for the ultimate role-playing. And for that, I'm choosing the Hands of Fury party, the all-evil party.
After reading their bios, I think they will be great great fun to play!
I'll post some results on here as I go along. I think I'll start them this evening.