strange as that statement may seem....
for example, in the abilities section of the hardcover PH, it explicitly states that adventuring characters' lowest ability score should be 12, since 10 is average and adventuring characters are 'above' average.
Try making any half-way decent character in IWD2 without being forced to drop at least one stat below 10....
IWD2 doesnt 'really' adhere to D&D 3rd Ed.
IWD2 doesnt 'really' adhere to D&D 3rd Ed.
Those who do not study history are doomed to repeat it.
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harbourboy
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None of these games ever stick religiously to the D&D rules anyway.
But of course it is possible to make a decent character without going below 10. You just can't make one of those freaky power characters, but you can definitely make some that will finish the game for you.
But how is that any different from anything else?
But of course it is possible to make a decent character without going below 10. You just can't make one of those freaky power characters, but you can definitely make some that will finish the game for you.
But how is that any different from anything else?
Above average? Ok, maybe so, but that doesn't mean they are all charismatic! What if you met a Half-Orc with one mangled up face(war scars). Would that still net him a charisma of 10 because he 'adventures' out into the world? I don't think so. More like a charisma of 5-8 just because of his face, and put that with his lineage and his temper! Not too charismatic I say!
And you can make a decent character without dropping a stat below what they start out with(why put 2 points in Charisma for half-orc when their race gives them -2 charisma? just a waste of points.) In that case I would consider 8 charisma on a half-orc to be the rough equivalent of 10. If the DnD Manual says everyone should have no less than 10 in any ability score, then it's as good as starting the half-orc with -4 points to allocate, with 10 to all stats(-2 intelligence aswell).
Eh....
And you can make a decent character without dropping a stat below what they start out with(why put 2 points in Charisma for half-orc when their race gives them -2 charisma? just a waste of points.) In that case I would consider 8 charisma on a half-orc to be the rough equivalent of 10. If the DnD Manual says everyone should have no less than 10 in any ability score, then it's as good as starting the half-orc with -4 points to allocate, with 10 to all stats(-2 intelligence aswell).
Eh....
Re: Adherence to 3rd Ed. Rules
By that you mean it helps you cheat? Interesting.Originally posted by Patrick
Try the Latest version of Dale Keeper2. This works with you like a Dungeon Master would.
[url="http://www.sorcerers.net/Games/BG2/SpellsReference/Main.htm"]Baldur's Gate 2 Spells Reference[/url]: Strategy, tips, tricks, bugs, cheese and corrections to the manual.
Quoting from the 3E PHB
page 4
"1. Ability scores ....If you roll really poorly you can roll again. Your scores are considered too low if your total modifiers (before changes according to race) are 0 or less, or if your highest score is 13 or lower."
Page 7
"...The average ability score for the typical commoner is 10 or 11, but your character is not typical. The most common ability scores for player characters (PCs) are 12 and 13. (That's right, the AVERAGE player character is above average)"
Page 8
"if your scores are too low, you may scrap them and roll all six scores over. Your scores are considerd too low if your total modifiers (before changes according to race) are 0 or less, or if your highest score is 13 or lower."
no where in there do I see it saying that all your ability scores MUST be 12 or above.
It says that the AVERAGE adventurer has scores of 12 and 13 in everything...
but not everyone is average. If you want an average adventurer use Point buy. Thats the point of rolling the character.
You take your chances, maybe you luck out and get all 16's ... but if you blow it, you can try again.
They only state that your total modifier must be above 0 (i.e. +1, -2, +3, -1, 0, 0 for a total of +1) or that your highest score must be above 13 (i.e. 10,10,10,10,10, 14 is acceptable) I don't see it breaking with 3E rules anywhere there.
If their intention was to have every stat of yours 12 or above you would be rolling 1d8+10 (counting 1's as 2's) and that would be your stats (giving a range of 12-18). However they make you roll 3d6. Because sometimes really ugly people make amazing thieves... or really weak people have a great command of magic.
page 4
"1. Ability scores ....If you roll really poorly you can roll again. Your scores are considered too low if your total modifiers (before changes according to race) are 0 or less, or if your highest score is 13 or lower."
Page 7
"...The average ability score for the typical commoner is 10 or 11, but your character is not typical. The most common ability scores for player characters (PCs) are 12 and 13. (That's right, the AVERAGE player character is above average)"
Page 8
"if your scores are too low, you may scrap them and roll all six scores over. Your scores are considerd too low if your total modifiers (before changes according to race) are 0 or less, or if your highest score is 13 or lower."
no where in there do I see it saying that all your ability scores MUST be 12 or above.
It says that the AVERAGE adventurer has scores of 12 and 13 in everything...
but not everyone is average. If you want an average adventurer use Point buy. Thats the point of rolling the character.
You take your chances, maybe you luck out and get all 16's ... but if you blow it, you can try again.
They only state that your total modifier must be above 0 (i.e. +1, -2, +3, -1, 0, 0 for a total of +1) or that your highest score must be above 13 (i.e. 10,10,10,10,10, 14 is acceptable) I don't see it breaking with 3E rules anywhere there.
If their intention was to have every stat of yours 12 or above you would be rolling 1d8+10 (counting 1's as 2's) and that would be your stats (giving a range of 12-18). However they make you roll 3d6. Because sometimes really ugly people make amazing thieves... or really weak people have a great command of magic.
Doesn't matter if you're rolling on using point buy. Thats still the official word on the range of ability scores. You could pump it all into a coupel 18's and very little else if you wanted...
IWD 2 doesn't use standard point buy either, it uses a variant. The person's claim was that somewhere in the PHB it stated that every ability score MUST be a minimum of 12 and that doesn't exist.
IWD 2 doesn't use standard point buy either, it uses a variant. The person's claim was that somewhere in the PHB it stated that every ability score MUST be a minimum of 12 and that doesn't exist.
Originally posted by kellinjar
Doesn't matter if you're rolling on using point buy. Thats still the official word on the range of ability scores.
so you're telling me that when I am using 35 pt buy I am actually forced to use 11 pt buy with all stats startin at 12 because I have to have all stats above 12? tsssss.
Beauty is only skin deep, but ugly goes right down to the bone
uhm no?
I said that there is no where in the book that said that every stat has to be above 12.
The original poster claimed that there was. I quoted the only passages that spoke of your ability point scores and any minimums surrounding them.
How you got out of that that I think that all scores should be above 12 I have no idea.
I said IF there was a rule stating that all ability scores had to be above 12 then the proper roll would be 10+1d8 with 1's counting as 2's to give you a range of 12-18. But The die rolls are 3d6 because your a bility score range can be 3-18
Obviously such a rule does not exist and the poitn of the thread was to point that out to the original poster.
I said that there is no where in the book that said that every stat has to be above 12.
The original poster claimed that there was. I quoted the only passages that spoke of your ability point scores and any minimums surrounding them.
How you got out of that that I think that all scores should be above 12 I have no idea.
I said IF there was a rule stating that all ability scores had to be above 12 then the proper roll would be 10+1d8 with 1's counting as 2's to give you a range of 12-18. But The die rolls are 3d6 because your a bility score range can be 3-18
Obviously such a rule does not exist and the poitn of the thread was to point that out to the original poster.
Originally posted by kellinjar
uhm no?
I said that there is no where in the book that said that every stat has to be above 12.
The original poster claimed that there was. I quoted the only passages that spoke of your ability point scores and any minimums surrounding them.
How you got out of that that I think that all scores should be above 12 I have no idea.
I said IF there was a rule stating that all ability scores had to be above 12 then the proper roll would be 10+1d8 with 1's counting as 2's to give you a range of 12-18. But The die rolls are 3d6 because your a bility score range can be 3-18
Obviously such a rule does not exist and the poitn of the thread was to point that out to the original poster.
Oopsie
Beauty is only skin deep, but ugly goes right down to the bone
there is actually a passage in the players handbook which i cannot find presently that expressly states that if after you roll your stats, if ANY of the stats are below 12, then you as the player can reroll them until none of your stats are below 12.
i'll get the page number and column out of the PH later to provide a direct quote.
i'll get the page number and column out of the PH later to provide a direct quote.
Those who do not study history are doomed to repeat it.