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the black paladin

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slowcar
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the black paladin

Post by slowcar »

i found it surprising that the new addons did not change they way UMD works.

anyhow, i am currently playing SOU, finished NWN looong time ago and am now enjoying the different story and the much better graphics. (thx to my radeon and quincux@1280)

i have a paladin4/rogue4 going into divine champion now

i just beat the blackguard at some temple and, surprise, i can wear his armor.
the valiants helm, the holy avenger and the blackguard fullplate, thats some good-looking equipment
of course i am 99 lawful and 99 good :cool:

i wonder what other items are cool to use with UMD in the later game?
is this strange rule-implementation still working in HoU?
i think a few rogue-levels should be added to every character then.

just as a sidenote, in the main game i had only 3 rogue-levels and was able to cast any 9th spell i carried along on my mighty scroll collection.

why play a wizard 20 when you can be a mighty rogue 3 ?

gs
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Monolith
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Post by Monolith »

Originally posted by slowcar
just as a sidenote, in the main game i had only 3 rogue-levels and was able to cast any 9th spell i carried along on my mighty scroll collection.

why play a wizard 20 when you can be a mighty rogue 3 ?

gs
SlowCar


That's the reason I don't like NWN very much...ok, one reason.
"Some people say that I must be a terrible person, but it’s not true. I have the heart of a young boy in a jar on my desk."
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D.Windsor
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Post by D.Windsor »

There are a few drawbacks to Use Magical Items, particularly when boosted by levels of Rogue.

1. Spell scrolls cost cash and take up space in your inventory, and are finite. Where a caster can simply rest and resume, you've just expended gold. Being able to cast time stop is nice, but having to pay over 3,000 gold per cast can be cost-prohibitive.

2. Spell scrolls seem to always take a full round to cast, even while perma-hasted (I believe). Genuine spellcasters can churn out spells faster under similar circumstances and counter-cast at their leisure.

3. You need to pay special attention to what race you play when putting token levels into rogue. Depending on your primary class, this typically limits you to halflings, humans, and half elves. Gnomes and Elves cannot do this without taking an Exp penalty, Dwarves have to be fighters, and half-Orcs need to be barbarians.

4. Spells cast from scrolls are level limited. Their effects are only as good as the level listed on them. Very often this means sub-par power compared to genuine casters, except in fixed effect/duration spells (eg, Find Traps, Knock, Time Stop).

5. There is still a cash limit on how powerful an item the skill will work on, meaning that if you want to use epic stuff that you otherwise couldn't use, you may need to devote more levels into rogue.
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slowcar
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Post by slowcar »

D.Windsor, you are right about that, but only if you compare such a character to a full caster.

i took this character into HoU and, due to my starting level 12 and without henchman, was a bit challenged sometimes, but not too much.

the only thing i miss is the ability to put some spellmantle or stuff on me before combat starts, especially these low-level wizard spells (looks like magic missile, dont know the name yet) are getting my life sucked. but the enemy casters die after two or three rounds normally, so most encounters are fairly easy.

my build atm is rogue4/paladin5/champion8
its a bit suboptimal because i did not know that you have to take a paladin level to get divine might as a feat, but i didnt want to rebuild my whole char because of this.

UMD is at 11 ranks, and due to charisma 22 quite good.
rogue5/paladin5/champion10 will be my going-epic, then i will check the epic feats and decide between them and leveling rogue some more, skills seem to be quite important.

i am playing a pure melee-character, can use many many items for other classes (just found some cool bardic ones) and cast spells from scrolls.

i dont think its a weakness that i can do it not as good as a wizard, its a strength that i am able to do it :)

i ignore traps mostly, atm i have a reflex-save of 27 and evasion gets really useful (in real DnD i wouldnt be able to use it due to heavy armor, but hey...)

i was a bit angry about missing open lock, but then i found out that all the doors and chests may have high DR, but not elemental one. with a sword that does electricity or cold damage they are quite easy to open :)

happy gaming,
Slow
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D.Windsor
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Post by D.Windsor »

The skill does have it's uses, but the applications are limited and sometimes not needed. It helps in that you get to use those scrolls that you keep picking up, rather than selling them off at rip-off-the-player rates.

Of course, It's really cool walking around in HotU as a non-caster with a Shield Golem. It was satisfying having that puppy smacking down everything in sight.. although that stupid demilich required many, many, many reloads and lots of spells..

My first character was freaking powerful as a paladin with 3 levels of rogue, although I found out that a pure paladin is nearly as good.. This being due to the easily found items with 3/day Find Traps power in Undrentide and Underdark.

Btw.. if you want to get the most out of a rogue-tank hybrid, take knockdown/Improved Knockdown feats.. you get sneak attack damage if you knock them on their tookas, and that can hurt (alot at level 5 with 3d6 bonus damage). It is a cool way to smack around casters who think they're badass, and keep yourself pretty safe against most other things that would otherwise hand your skull back to you.
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shift244
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Post by shift244 »

the use magic item skill is bugged in NWN. it takes a static DC check instead of a 1d20 roll.

my 2 cents about the knwockdown? its pretty hard to use against warrior type classes.. and mages fall easy enough if u sneak in close and shoot an acid arrow or something. u can actually deal 70 dmg... (not as a level 5 rogue of course). my "munchkin" rogue tactic is to take 1 shadow dancer level and run up to the target with 2 short swords and deal approximately 110 dmg in round 1... but paladins don't do that rite?? :p
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D.Windsor
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Post by D.Windsor »

Improved Knockdown works against *most* creatures, save warriors with good Discipline skills and things that are MUCH bigger than you (eg, most dragons). Combining Knockdown with Sneak attack is nothing short of painful.

nothing like a critical smite evil sneak attack to make you grin..
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Mysteria
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Post by Mysteria »

In HotU there is a check to cast a spell from a scroll, and you may actually fail it. *gasp* :D :p
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shift244
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Post by shift244 »

Originally posted by Mysteria
In HotU there is a check to cast a spell from a scroll, and you may actually fail it. *gasp* :D :p
that would make it more real...
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Post by Xandax »

Originally posted by shift244
that would make it more real...


Yeah - I hate it when they make spellcasting so unrealistic :D
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shift244
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Post by shift244 »

well.. i'm not really complaining. while it does make the use magic device skill, more -muchkin-.. it does give a high level rogue a very good range of abilities... think about Time Stop with a 2 weapon weilding rogue and dealing something like oh.. 4 attacks per round with oh.. 7d6 sneak attacks.... that would give like what? 28d6 x (1d4+1) == 81d6 points of damage on average ?? :cool: :D
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D.Windsor
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Post by D.Windsor »

Rogues tend to be a little on the less focused side of things because their strength lies in their skills.

They typically have fewer hit points and are often in sitations where they can't simply sneak up and kill monsters who are in groups.. they aren't that great of a melee class, less so with their lighter armor (generally speaking).

they don't have access to the raw melee power of barbarians, access to hordes of feats like warriors, nor the mass damage capabilities of casters.. like bards, they are wussy in-betweeners. Being able to cast spells that they dig out of the garbage can evens things out, if only a little.
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