Restricted by armor

PinkowiM · Post by **PinkowiM** » Sun Feb 01, 2004 2:02 pm

I dont understand why some force powers are restricted by armor. I doesnt make sense to me. I mean, what is the thought behind it that u cant use some force powers but other with armor?

also, how does malak use force lightening if he has armor on (or at least it looks that way)

Armisael · Post by **Armisael** » Sun Feb 01, 2004 9:51 pm

Who knows... you can actually get much better defense without armour on than you can with it, so whatever.

Aremah · Post by **Aremah** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 9:32 am

Judging by the looks, Malak doesn't have armor on. It's more of a kickass robe (just like the Star Forge robe or Darth Malak's robe; they also have elements that look like armor, but are indeed just robes).

As far as the armor restriction is concerned, it's there because of the third edition AD&D rules. Second edition had these restrictions as well, as far as spellcasting was concerned. They probably couldn't just change it to their liking as the rules are licensed.

Armisael · Post by **Armisael** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 10:12 am

There are no such rules in the pen and paper Star Wars RPG. Armour use has no bearing on force skills. It's total creative license on Bioware's part, most likely to give Jedi robes any kind of purpose.

Chiggins · Post by **Chiggins** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 12:24 pm

"Who knows... you can actually get much better defense without armour on than you can with it, so whatever."

Psha!

Environment Bastion Armor fully upgraded? harro? that and the immune to lightning thing make you pretty much invincible

Aremah · Post by **Aremah** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 1:02 pm

Originally posted by Armisael
There are no such rules in the pen and paper Star Wars RPG. Armour use has no bearing on force skills. It's total creative license on Bioware's part, most likely to give Jedi robes any kind of purpose.

Never saw the actual Star Wars P&P version; I based by assumptions on the standard AD&D rules and assumed it was the same.

PinkowiM · Post by **PinkowiM** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 3:47 pm

standard AD&D rules and assumed it was the same.

whats AD&D

and i've never been able to find these starforge and revan robes, whats the big deal about them?

Aremah · Post by **Aremah** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 4:37 pm

Originally posted by PinkowiM
whats AD&D

and i've never been able to find these starforge and revan robes, whats the big deal about them?

AD&D stands for Advanced Dungeons and Dragons, probably the oldest pen and paper role playing system. Baldur's Gate 1 and 2, Icewind Dale 1 and 2, Planescape: Torment, Neverwinter Nights are games based upon it's rules, just as KotoR is. There were changes, as some of these games were based on the second edition, BG2 implemented some of the third one while keeping the rest old. ID2 and KotoR are fully based on the third edition rules, which are incidentally almost infinitely adaptable to any world, fantasy, science-fiction or otherwise. That's in a pill

As far as the Robes, you can only get them if you're pretty far down the Light Side or Dark Side scale respectively (don't have to be at maximum, but can't be leaning towards neutral), using a terminal in the Star Forge. The stats pretty much speak for themselves:

Darth Revan's robes (restricted to Dark Side) - 5 defense, +8 max dexterity bonus, +4 strength, +1 HP regeneration

Star Forge robes - (restricted to Light Side) - 5 defense, +8 max dexterity bonus, +2 all saves, +5 wisdom

PinkowiM · Post by **PinkowiM** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 5:22 pm

cool, and do they DR robes actually look like the one Revan wears in the visions?

also,

Spoiler

(Hight light to read)

when u kill malak, i wish the game didnt end there and that u could get his stuff, cuz i'm really intrigued by this thing that he wears...

Armisael · Post by **Armisael** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 8:40 pm

Originally posted by Chiggins
Environment Bastion Armor fully upgraded? harro? that and the immune to lightning thing make you pretty much invincible

You can get your defense up to 50 or more without armour. You can't get anywhere near that with it.

Aremah · Post by **Aremah** » Tue Feb 03, 2004 4:33 am

Originally posted by PinkowiM
cool, and do they DR robes actually look like the one Revan wears in the visions?

Yes they do.

On a side note, does anyone know Malak's stats (class, attributes, powers, items) from using an editor or whatnot?

Sethernis · Post by **Sethernis** » Tue Feb 03, 2004 1:57 pm

If you have Cassus Fett's armor by instance you have MAX 14 defence bonus. Which means that the hit the enemy makes is i.e 16, so then a random number between 1-14 is drawn, like 11 for intance. Now the A.I takes 16-11= 5. The enemy hites damage 5.
If the attack goes under, then they hit but no damage displayed.
Now the Natural Defence which is like agility is something else, which is displayed in your character profile is how good you are at avoiding melee attacks or blaster shots.
Hope this helps

PinkowiM · Post by **PinkowiM** » Tue Feb 03, 2004 3:24 pm

You can get your defense up to 50 or more without armour. You can't get anywhere near that with it.

how? with cheats?

On a side note, does anyone know Malak's stats (class, attributes, powers, items) from using an editor or whatnot?

i dont think that there is anytype of editor for mod making or anything in KotOR that i kno of. Thats a major minus

Armisael · Post by **Armisael** » Tue Feb 03, 2004 10:35 pm

Originally posted by Sethernis
If you have Cassus Fett's armor by instance you have MAX 14 defence bonus. Which means that the hit the enemy makes is i.e 16, so then a random number between 1-14 is drawn, like 11 for intance. Now the A.I takes 16-11= 5. The enemy hites damage 5.
If the attack goes under, then they hit but no damage displayed.
Now the Natural Defence which is like agility is something else, which is displayed in your character profile is how good you are at avoiding melee attacks or blaster shots.
Hope this helps

Wrong. Defense is defense is defense. The attacker rolls D20 and adds his base attack bonus. If the resulting number is higher than the target's defense, then the attack hits. That's it. Armour offers no damage reduction in KotOR unless it's explicitly included in the description, there is no difference between the defense provided by a suit of armour and the defense provided by your dexterity bonus.

Originally posted by PinkowiM
how? with cheats?

Don't be daft.

All characters have base defense 10. The best Jedi robes give +5, and Jedi robes do not cap dexterity bonus to defense, even though they say they do in their description. With a starting dexterity of 18, you can get your dexterity up to 40 (advanced stabiliser gloves, adrenaline stimulator, verpine ocular enhancer, master valor, hyper-adrenal alacrity), which is +15 defense. Master speed gives +6, force armor is +6, Jedi get +6 from their feats, and scoundrels get another +6 from their feats. That's 54 defense right there, you could probably get it higher if you wanted to, but I think that's enough to ensure that Malak only hits you with a natural 20.

Edit: Oh, and you can use dueling for another +3. 57.

Edit edit: Master speed is +4, sorry. If you get the +3 dexterity belt (instead of the +2) as well as the +5 dexterity implant, that's another 3 defense, which takes it up to 58. I think Malak's BAB is 38, so that should be about enough to successfully take on the world.

Jack Dell · Post by **Jack Dell** » Wed Feb 11, 2004 12:01 am

wow. did not think that was possible. This would effectively make you invulnerable, and make your to-hit with lightsaber soar.
with that out of the way though, you'd need to keep recasting force armor wich has like a 4 round duration. Although it probably doesn't make a difference up until malak. Did you actually manage this?
Also because of the items you are surely talking of the PC version, with its incredible Yavin Station items to make the game even easier. Maybe someone who played both versions can tell me if you can near 50 defense with the xbox version. If you dont play a scoundrel id think it impossible though, not making you invulnerable to malak, which is very cool.

Armisael · Post by **Armisael** » Wed Feb 11, 2004 4:40 am

I've tried this on my PC, so yes, that's using Yavin items. Without valor/armor/speed/stims, your defense using that setup is 42. You'll probably be using one of those powers habitually though -- I usually use speed at every opportunity. I do own the Xbox version as well, and even though I haven't tried a dexterity build using it, I can tell you exactly what the difference would be: you'd have a +3 implant instead of a +5, a +2 belt instead of a +3, and +1 gloves instead of +3. In short, you'd have 55 defense instead of 58 with all the trimmings, and 39 instead of 42 without.

Jack Dell · Post by **Jack Dell** » Wed Feb 11, 2004 11:04 am

actually, there is a +4 dex implant for xbox, in Mika Dorins special items. so 40 base. excellent

Armisael · Post by **Armisael** » Wed Feb 11, 2004 12:48 pm

Actually, I did my math wrong, it'd be 40 base even with the +3 implant. With the +4, though, you could get it up to 56 with everything souped up.

sziszko · Post by **sziszko** » Wed Feb 18, 2004 5:05 am

I would think that the "Max dexterity bonus +8" on the jedi robes means: if you wear this robe, the bonus on your dexterity can be max +8. This should mean, it is no worth to have a higher dexterity than 26 (which gives the +8 bonus), because the above value is just dismissed by your robe.

This is the reason, why heavy armors have "Max dexterity bonus +1/+0". If you wear something heavy like that, your dexterity bonus disappears.

i.e. if you wear an armor with "Max dexterity bonus +2", your "effective dexterity" is max 14.

Armisael · Post by **Armisael** » Wed Feb 18, 2004 11:09 am

As I said earlier, even though the robes are supposed to apply a dexterity bonus limit of +8, they don't. And I don't think this was fixed in 1.02.