I’m trying to polish a reroll of a Rogue build for the official campaigns, played SP. The last time I played NWN was before SoU came out, so I’m quite behind on the latest feats. You may have seen my recent post about the Paladin/CoT. That’s because I’m planning on finishing OC 1 with my current char, rerolled, and then playing through SoU with a Paladin/CoT, and then at the end of SoU, I’ll decide which to take through HotU. So keep in mind that this build may not become epic.
My current build, at the end of Act 1, is a Ranger 1/Fighter 1/Rogue 6. The Shadowdancer seems a good choice for me, so that means I need to drop either the fighter or ranger. So I could go Fighter 4/SD 1/Rogue X, or Ranger 1/SD1/Rogue X. The possibility of including some Weapon Master levels I’m open to, although I really know nothing of it so I’d need some explaining. The main difference I see between these two builds is that with the Ranger, I have more Rogue levels, so more skill points, sneak attack, rogue feats, and such. With the Fighter I get Imp. Two Weap Fighting, and a friend pointed out I could take Devastating Critical later on.
I’m unsure of what weapon to focus on, and its obviously been a long time since I’ve played so I don’t know why, but I originally took focus: rapier. Are rapiers considered light? If so, would that be a wiser choice to duel weild, as opposed to short swords? Looking at the magic weapons, there seem to be a lot of rogue oriented short swords. If I went for Devastating Crit, a friend pointed out that I should take a weapon with a good crit range, like rapiers, kukris, or scimitars.. again, what would be the best choice here?
My current starting stats are 12str, 16dex, 12con, 14int, 10wis, 12cha
The feats I plan on taking in order: Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot ,Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus, Dodge, Mobility, Iron Will , Improved Critical , Toughness
Class Feats: Improved Evasion, Slippery Mind, Crippling Strike, Defensive Roll
This will obviously change if I go with the Fighter build.
Rogue/SD Acclimation
Both the rapier and shortsword are considered light. The rapier has a higher critical threat range that can go all the way to 10-20/x2 (keen rapier, Weapon Master levels, Improved Critical).
The Shadow Dancer has little going for it unless high on levels (so you get Epic Summon Shadow and better Shadow Evade, which improves every five levels). One level of Shadow Dancer, however, is always a good choice instead of one Rogue level, because it gives you the Hide in Plain Sight ability. Just make sure you use it instead of an even rogue level, because sneak attacks are given at every odd level, so you won't be missing out there.
Devastating Critical needs a strength of 25, Cleave, Improved Cleave and Overwhelming Critical as pre-requisites. With a starting strength of 12, it's practically unattainable (i.e. you'd have to put almost all attribute points into Str and get some Great Strengths as well, and Rogues aren't exactly known for a large amount of feats, plus they're dexterity-driven).
The Weapon Master gives several very nice abilities, and most people only take seven levels of him, to gain a +1 to attack, +2 to critical threat range and +1 to critical multiplier.
I'd go either for a Fighter/Weapon Master/Rogue build or a Fighter/Rogue/Shadow Dancer one (one level of SD for HIPS), but to tell you the truth, the pure Rogue really shines, especially when you factor in some Rogue Epic feats (Epic Dodge - dex 25, tumble 30 ranks, Improved Evasion - but gives you the ability to dodge the first attack every round; or Self Concealment - dex 30, hide 30, tumble 30, Improved Evasion - taken up to five times to gain a 50% concealement bonus, meaning every attack on you has a 50% chance to miss).
If going for a pure Rogue, pump Dex all the way (and start with 18) to get both Epic Dodge and Self Concealment (I-V). In conjuction with Use Magic Device, you can wear a magic robe (preferably a monk-exclusive one), this extreme Dex will allow you to get an AC higher that possible in any armor.
The Shadow Dancer has little going for it unless high on levels (so you get Epic Summon Shadow and better Shadow Evade, which improves every five levels). One level of Shadow Dancer, however, is always a good choice instead of one Rogue level, because it gives you the Hide in Plain Sight ability. Just make sure you use it instead of an even rogue level, because sneak attacks are given at every odd level, so you won't be missing out there.
Devastating Critical needs a strength of 25, Cleave, Improved Cleave and Overwhelming Critical as pre-requisites. With a starting strength of 12, it's practically unattainable (i.e. you'd have to put almost all attribute points into Str and get some Great Strengths as well, and Rogues aren't exactly known for a large amount of feats, plus they're dexterity-driven).
The Weapon Master gives several very nice abilities, and most people only take seven levels of him, to gain a +1 to attack, +2 to critical threat range and +1 to critical multiplier.
I'd go either for a Fighter/Weapon Master/Rogue build or a Fighter/Rogue/Shadow Dancer one (one level of SD for HIPS), but to tell you the truth, the pure Rogue really shines, especially when you factor in some Rogue Epic feats (Epic Dodge - dex 25, tumble 30 ranks, Improved Evasion - but gives you the ability to dodge the first attack every round; or Self Concealment - dex 30, hide 30, tumble 30, Improved Evasion - taken up to five times to gain a 50% concealement bonus, meaning every attack on you has a 50% chance to miss).
If going for a pure Rogue, pump Dex all the way (and start with 18) to get both Epic Dodge and Self Concealment (I-V). In conjuction with Use Magic Device, you can wear a magic robe (preferably a monk-exclusive one), this extreme Dex will allow you to get an AC higher that possible in any armor.
Websites
Aremah Design - The Ghetto Times
Neverwinter Nights: Hordes of the Underdark
Musha Shugyo - Yojimbo - Shinobi - Kunoichi - Mahotsukai
Aremah Design - The Ghetto Times
Neverwinter Nights: Hordes of the Underdark
Musha Shugyo - Yojimbo - Shinobi - Kunoichi - Mahotsukai
Originally posted by Aremah
Both the rapier and shortsword are considered light. The rapier has a higher critical threat range that can go all the way to 10-20/x2 (keen rapier, Weapon Master levels, Improved Critical).
So I guess I should dual weild rapiers then? I mean, there are still more rogue oriented short swords, and I don’t think that item you get in HotU can be a rapier, not that I would know =P
The Shadow Dancer has little going for it unless high on levels (so you get Epic Summon Shadow and better Shadow Evade, which improves every five levels). One level of Shadow Dancer, however, is always a good choice instead of one Rogue level, because it gives you the Hide in Plain Sight ability. Just make sure you use it instead of an even rogue level, because sneak attacks are given at every odd level, so you won't be missing out there.
Duly noted, thanks for pointing that sneak attack thing out to me, I would never have guessed.
Devastating Critical needs a strength of 25, Cleave, Improved Cleave and Overwhelming Critical as pre-requisites. With a starting strength of 12, it's practically unattainable (i.e. you'd have to put almost all attribute points into Str and get some Great Strengths as well, and Rogues aren't exactly known for a large amount of feats, plus they're dexterity-driven).
Yeah forget about the Devastating Critical thing LOL.
The Weapon Master gives several very nice abilities, and most people only take seven levels of him, to gain a +1 to attack, +2 to critical threat range and +1 to critical multiplier.
I'd go either for a Fighter/Weapon Master/Rogue build or a Fighter/Rogue/Shadow Dancer one (one level of SD for HIPS), but to tell you the truth, the pure Rogue really shines, especially when you factor in some Rogue Epic feats (Epic Dodge - dex 25, tumble 30 ranks, Improved Evasion - but gives you the ability to dodge the first attack every round; or Self Concealment - dex 30, hide 30, tumble 30, Improved Evasion - taken up to five times to gain a 50% concealement bonus, meaning every attack on you has a 50% chance to miss).
Hmm, yeah… I like the SD best RP wise. I don’t think I could go for a pure rogue though, the main reason I’m still playing a rogue is because of the anticipation of added spice with PrC and such. What about the Ranger 1/SD 1/Rogue X Vs. Fighter 4(?)/SD 1/Rogue X?
If you're going to go Ranger/Rogue or Ranger/Rogue/SD, I recommend you get 9 levels of Ranger to dual wield effectivly (they get Improved Two Weapon Fighing which is an extra attack with the off hand). However, if you don't intend to use other Ranger spells/abilities (which should probably be higher than at clvl 9 to be effective), I see no reason to pick that class.
In that case I really recommend Fighter/Rogue/SD. The downside is that such a build should be slightly more strength-driven, but you get a lot more feats taking a Fighter instead of a Ranger (easily getting all dual wielding feats and then some more), more hp, etc. This is just my opinion, but then again, I've always been the Fighter type. You could look at my recent Ninja (Assassin) guide for a general idea - you'd just have to replace Assassin with Rogue, and you'd get a free feat because you wouldn't need an exotic proficiency to use rapiers.
As far as dual wielding is concerned, especially with a rogue (high AC and feats that allow you to avoid more blows), definitely go for it. 6 attacks per round means that 3 of them can be sneak attacks, if I remember correctly, and that's quite a lot.
My other guide - Ninja (Shadow Dancer) - could give you some ideas as well. It's a Dexterity driven Rogue who relies on sneak attacks to do the damage, and has a few more SD levels (if you take SD at levels 11-20, you get all the feats you'd otherwise take from the Rogue bonus list, plus some other abilities - like Hide in Plain Sight and Darkvision) for free. Your sneak attacks do suffer, but it's not such a big deal.
Right now, I have to say if I was to build another Rogue character (not driven by any greater concept), I'd be in favor of a dual rapier wielding Ftr(8)/WM(7)/Rogue(25) build (10-20/x3 criticals with a keen rapier). Ultimately, the choice is yours and yours alone
Note: If you decide to go for a Ftr/Rogue/something build, be sure to leave an even level of Fighter (bonus feat) for later to take at level 21 and gain both Epic Weapon Focus (normal feat) and Epic Weapon Specialization (bonus feat). +2 attack and +4 damage is not too shabby (+3/+6 combined with the appropriate pre-requisites).
In that case I really recommend Fighter/Rogue/SD. The downside is that such a build should be slightly more strength-driven, but you get a lot more feats taking a Fighter instead of a Ranger (easily getting all dual wielding feats and then some more), more hp, etc. This is just my opinion, but then again, I've always been the Fighter type. You could look at my recent Ninja (Assassin) guide for a general idea - you'd just have to replace Assassin with Rogue, and you'd get a free feat because you wouldn't need an exotic proficiency to use rapiers.
As far as dual wielding is concerned, especially with a rogue (high AC and feats that allow you to avoid more blows), definitely go for it. 6 attacks per round means that 3 of them can be sneak attacks, if I remember correctly, and that's quite a lot.
My other guide - Ninja (Shadow Dancer) - could give you some ideas as well. It's a Dexterity driven Rogue who relies on sneak attacks to do the damage, and has a few more SD levels (if you take SD at levels 11-20, you get all the feats you'd otherwise take from the Rogue bonus list, plus some other abilities - like Hide in Plain Sight and Darkvision) for free. Your sneak attacks do suffer, but it's not such a big deal.
Right now, I have to say if I was to build another Rogue character (not driven by any greater concept), I'd be in favor of a dual rapier wielding Ftr(8)/WM(7)/Rogue(25) build (10-20/x3 criticals with a keen rapier). Ultimately, the choice is yours and yours alone
Note: If you decide to go for a Ftr/Rogue/something build, be sure to leave an even level of Fighter (bonus feat) for later to take at level 21 and gain both Epic Weapon Focus (normal feat) and Epic Weapon Specialization (bonus feat). +2 attack and +4 damage is not too shabby (+3/+6 combined with the appropriate pre-requisites).
Websites
Aremah Design - The Ghetto Times
Neverwinter Nights: Hordes of the Underdark
Musha Shugyo - Yojimbo - Shinobi - Kunoichi - Mahotsukai
Aremah Design - The Ghetto Times
Neverwinter Nights: Hordes of the Underdark
Musha Shugyo - Yojimbo - Shinobi - Kunoichi - Mahotsukai