Add Sarevok to this party -- who's out?

krunchyfrogg · Post by **krunchyfrogg** » Tue Apr 20, 2004 7:41 pm

Do you think Keldorn is worth dropping for Sarevok? What about Anomen?

Here's who is in my party:

Sorcerer (me)
Jaheira
Minsc
Imoen
---------- I ain't dropping any of these guys, they've been with me (well, my mage) since BGI.

Keldorn
Anomen

Maybe I'm better off keeping the guys that I have. Keldorn is great (I love Carsomyr), and I don't think I'll do too good in ToB w/o a Cleric

Galuf the Dwarf · Post by **Galuf the Dwarf** » Tue Apr 20, 2004 8:15 pm

Originally posted by krunchyfrogg
Do you think Keldorn is worth dropping for Sarevok? What about Anomen?

Here's who is in my party:

Sorcerer (me)
Jaheira
Minsc
Imoen
---------- I ain't dropping any of these guys, they've been with me (well, my mage) since BGI.

Keldorn
Anomen

Maybe I'm better off keeping the guys that I have. Keldorn is great (I love Carsomyr), and I don't think I'll do too good in ToB w/o a Cleric

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Sounds like your best bet would be to ditch Keldorn, in this case, since you aren't going to let go of Minsc. As powerful as Carsomyr is (+5, additional damage vs. Chaotic Evil opponents, etc.) you'll find two-handed swords of relatively equal effectiveness that Sarevok can wield.

Also, Sarevok can randomly do insane amounts of damage upon a successful hit, which usually rends certain opponents apart easily.

Overall, it's your choice, but Keldorn looks like the best choice of who to dismiss.

Black_Paladin · Post by **Black_Paladin** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 4:23 am

Originally posted by krunchyfrogg
Do you think Keldorn is worth dropping for Sarevok? What about Anomen?

Here's who is in my party:

Sorcerer (me)
Jaheira
Minsc
Imoen
---------- I ain't dropping any of these guys, they've been with me (well, my mage) since BGI.

Keldorn
Anomen

Maybe I'm better off keeping the guys that I have. Keldorn is great (I love Carsomyr), and I don't think I'll do too good in ToB w/o a Cleric

OK, so IF you are going to switch Sarevok with someone, it's either going to be Anomen or Keldorn.

In this case, I strongly recommend that you ditch Anomen and here are the reasons why:

1-In ToB, unlike in SoA, there are few undead. You run into the occasional lich there and there but nothing a sorceror and some fighters can't take care of easily. In this respect, the role of a cleric for the purposes of fighting undead undead is diminished in ToB.

2-Pretty much all the the big bad guys you fight in ToB, such as Yaga-Shura have extremely high elemental and magic damage resistance. The wording here is important. I did not say magic resistance but "magic damage" resistance. For instance, Yaga-Shura has 100% magic damage resistance. What this means is that horrid wiltings will not damage him even a single HP. Furthermore, this guy has *maximum* fire resistance (127%) *AND* maximum *magic fire* resistance so any fire based spells you cast on him (fireball, sunfire, dragon's breath, meteor storm, etc.) will actually heal him. As a matter of fact, the only elemental attack that can damage him is cold damage. On the other hand, hacking through this guy with a sword or halberd is a slow but sure way to kill him. As a result, when fighting Yaga-Shura and the other members of the 5, you will really be glad to have Sarevok with you as opposed to Anomen. Anomen might be a good tank but Sarevok is ten times better hands down. Just think about who would be better suited to fight 50 high level monks or drow? Sarevok or Anomen? When I recently finished ToB, I had Keldorn, Sarevok and myself (Kensai) as fighters. With all the incredible equipment we gathered through the game, when it came to fighting those 50 monks, all I had to do was to turn on the AI and watch the 3 fighters run one guy to the next, chopping them up to little pieces and leaving a very bloody mess. The spellcasters didn't even need to do anything and this was a pretty amusing battle. In short, all you need in ToB are fighers and people who can cast breach and magic removal spells like Remove Magic, Khalben's Wharding Whip, Spellstrike, etc. and you will be set.

3- While Jaheira might be Druid and not a Cleric, she has almost all the useful abilities of a Cleric that you would need in ToB. She can cast insect swarm/plague and creeping doom which works great on pretty much everything in ToB, can cast Hurt which can take the mighty bosses with 600+ HP down to a single HP with a single hit, can cast Harper's Call for your resurrection needs, can summon Elemental Princes when she gets to high enough levels and before she gets to that level, she can summon fire elementals as fast as using the Staff of Fire to summon them. Furthmore, if she got the Harper's Pin in SoA when she was in your party, she will have super saves and great resistances (saving throws are extremely important in ToB). In short, there really is no need for a Cleric at all in ToB with Jaheira present as she can provide all the useful spells a Cleric would have (Bless, Chant, Pixie Dust, etc.) AND more.

4-There are extremely powerful weapons in ToB that suit Sarevok the best.

Julian · Post by **Julian** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 4:32 am

Ditch Anomen
I also played through using Jaheira, and if you have the plaladin bracers(cant remeber where you get them) your res. problem is solved.
I remeber when getting to ToB i was lvl 20 and new npc's where only 17. Are they always 17?

Mirk · Post by **Mirk** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 8:14 am

totaly agree with black_paladin, on all his points. Anomen does not compare to Keldorn by ToB, plus I find his personality annoying. And, when you REALLY REALLY nead a cleric, Keldorn can summon a Deva, who is herself a pretty high-level cleric, complete with spells, Mace of Disruption and even Turn Undead, IIRC.

Galuf the Dwarf · Post by **Galuf the Dwarf** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 2:44 pm

Originally posted by Mirk
totaly agree with black_paladin, on all his points. Anomen does not compare to Keldorn by ToB, plus I find his personality annoying. And, when you REALLY REALLY nead a cleric, Keldorn can summon a Deva, who is herself a pretty high-level cleric, complete with spells, Mace of Disruption and even Turn Undead, IIRC.

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However, the amount of healing spells he'll have available will be REALLY limited. As much as Keldorn can resurrect or cure massive wounds on a character via the Blessed Bracers once per day, that may not be enough under certain circumstances.

Also, Anomen will have access to a few powerful weapons just a pinch further on than Sarevok may - the Storm Star mace (+5 when upgraded), the Staff of the Ram +6. and others. Unlike Keldorn, Anomen can gain Grand Mastery in a weapon, and with high enough strength (either by Crom Faeyr or a belt of giant strength) and almost become as powerful as Keldorn with Carsomyr (if not better) or Sarevok.

As annoying as he can be, Anomen can have some considerable uses.

Black_Paladin · Post by **Black_Paladin** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 4:46 pm

I disagree because:

Originally posted by Galuf the Dwarf However, the amount of healing spells he'll have available will be REALLY limited. As much as Keldorn can resurrect or cure massive wounds on a character via the Blessed Bracers once per day, that may not be enough under certain circumstances.

1- I used to think what you said above before I finished ToB. Unfortunately, I realized quickly in that in ToB, healing spells take **WAAAAY** to much time to cast and are not very practical. If you are really hurting and need some healing, about the only practical method of healing yourself is gulping down those super healing potions you can find in ToB. Moreoever, what if Anomen gets disrupted while standing and casting his heal spell on someone?

In addition, if you upgrade Hindo's Doom and give it to someone like Imoen, it will take care of all your healing needs. This is because when upgraded, Hindo's Doom has the special ability to cast Greater Restoration and in ToB, Greater Restoration functions as a mass healing spell.

Furthermore, if Anomen is sitting there and casting heal on someone, he is not contributing to the battle and whatever weapons he is equipped with are not doing squat.

Finally, if you need Anomen to cast Resurrection, chances are that you will lose the battle. The reason for this is that for one thing, Anomen will be sitting there casting ressurection while you are fighting with one (or several) less party member which increases the chances of enemies attacking Anomen and disrupting him. If that's not enough, since one or more party members are dead and Anomen is wasting time resurrecting the person, you have one more person out of commision until ressurrection is complete.

If you need to ressurrect people, I strongly recommend carrying a Rod of Ressurrection as this raises people in an instant (and it will actually heal people too when they are alive) and it has a VERY long range. Do not forget that raised members in a battle can **NOT** re-equip their armor either until the battle is over as well. This means that Robe of Vecna or your nice -2 armor is **useless** until the end of battle.

In short, try not to get your party members killed and if they get killed, raise them *quickly* in a guaranteed and uninterruptable fashion with a Rod of Ressurrection.

Originally posted by Galuf the Dwarf
Also, Anomen will have access to a few powerful weapons just a pinch further on than Sarevok may - the Storm Star mace (+5 when upgraded), the Staff of the Ram +6. and others. Unlike Keldorn, Anomen can gain Grand Mastery in a weapon, and with high enough strength (either by Crom Faeyr or a belt of giant strength) and almost become as powerful as Keldorn with Carsomyr (if not better) or Sarevok.

2- I very, very strongly disagree with this. In ToB, Sarevok can get the Ravager +6 halberd which is a vorpal weapon. What this means is that Sarevok can occasionly kill people with a single hit from this weapon. Add this to Sarevok's natural Deathbringer Assault and you have a mean killing machine.

For grandmastery, Sarevok ALREADY has grandmastery in two handed swords and has a proficiency point in Halberds as well. Why make Anomen a burden to the party here when Sarevok is at least equal to or better than your other fighters?

If you want a fighter, Anomen is *no match* for Sarevok.

Galuf the Dwarf · Post by **Galuf the Dwarf** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 7:47 pm

Originally posted by Black_Paladin
I disagree because:

1- I used to think what you said above before I finished ToB. Unfortunately, I realized quickly in that in ToB, healing spells take **WAAAAY** to much time to cast and are not very practical. If you are really hurting and need some healing, about the only practical method of healing yourself is gulping down those super healing potions you can find in ToB. Moreoever, what if Anomen gets disrupted while standing and casting his heal spell on someone?

In addition, if you upgrade Hindo's Doom and give it to someone like Imoen, it will take care of all your healing needs. This is because when upgraded, Hindo's Doom has the special ability to cast Greater Restoration and in ToB, Greater Restoration functions as a mass healing spell.

Furthermore, if Anomen is sitting there and casting heal on someone, he is not contributing to the battle and whatever weapons he is equipped with are not doing squat.

Finally, if you need Anomen to cast Resurrection, chances are that you will lose the battle. The reason for this is that for one thing, Anomen will be sitting there casting ressurection while you are fighting with one (or several) less party member which increases the chances of enemies attacking Anomen and disrupting him. If that's not enough, since one or more party members are dead and Anomen is wasting time resurrecting the person, you have one more person out of commision until ressurrection is complete.

If you need to ressurrect people, I strongly recommend carrying a Rod of Ressurrection as this raises people in an instant (and it will actually heal people too when they are alive) and it has a VERY long range. Do not forget that raised members in a battle can **NOT** re-equip their armor either until the battle is over as well. This means that Robe of Vecna or your nice -2 armor is **useless** until the end of battle.

In short, try not to get your party members killed and if they get killed, raise them *quickly* in a guaranteed and uninterruptable fashion with a Rod of Ressurrection.

2- I very, very strongly disagree with this. In ToB, Sarevok can get the Ravager +6 halberd which is a vorpal weapon. What this means is that Sarevok can occasionly kill people with a single hit from this weapon. Add this to Sarevok's natural Deathbringer Assault and you have a mean killing machine.

For grandmastery, Sarevok ALREADY has grandmastery in two handed swords and has a proficiency point in Halberds as well. Why make Anomen a burden to the party here when Sarevok is at least equal to or better than your other fighters?

If you want a fighter, Anomen is *no match* for Sarevok.

So why not have Sarevok AND Anomen?

Black_Paladin · Post by **Black_Paladin** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 8:11 pm

Originally posted by Galuf the Dwarf
So why not have Sarevok AND Anomen?

Because Keldorn is better suited to kill things in ToB than Anomen too.

Almost all of the things I said about Anomen vs. Sarevok apply also for Keldorn vs. Anomen.

Sarevok gets Ravager +6 (decapitator), Keldorn gets Carsomyr +6 (dispeller). Together, they kick the butt of evil really well.

I got nothing against Anomen but he just doesn't seem to be built for ToB. He is VERY useful in SoA no doubt about that, but when it comes to ToB, he doesn't seem to be as good a fighter as pure fighters (which is to be expected since he is dual-classed and is not advancing in fighter levels anymore) AND he doesn't seem to be as useful as a cleric as he did in SoA.

Jaheira on the other hand, being mutli-class can keep advancing her fighter skills in ToB and with globe of blades, auro of flaming death and all her really cool other spells can be a good tank. The things with Jaheira is that her almost all her spells seem to be tailored for ToB such as insect plague/swarm, creeping doom, etc.

To put it another way, if I wanted to keep Anomen, I would kick Jaheira out but I can't imagine doing that because Jaheira is so much more useful.

EDIT: The Harper Pin! Never forget the power of the Harper Pin!

krunchyfrogg · Post by **krunchyfrogg** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 9:02 pm

Wow, I realy didn't think this would spark such a debate!

So, if you were me, would YOU drop Anomen for Sarevok?

Black_Paladin · Post by **Black_Paladin** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 9:33 pm

Originally posted by krunchyfrogg
Wow, I realy didn't think this would spark such a debate!

So, if you were me, would YOU drop Anomen for Sarevok?

If I *were* you I would drop Anomen for Sarevok without even reading these debates because of what you said earlier:

Originally posted by krunchyfrogg
Jaheira
Minsc
Imoen
---------- I ain't dropping any of these guys, they've been with me (well, my mage) since BGI.

What, you are taking your sister and your friends with you but not your brother who is just begging for your guidance in ToB?

SPOILER (highlight black text below to reveral):

Going through ToB, you have a chance to show Sarevok the error of his ways and make him become a good person. If you talk to him nicely, he becomes Chaotic Good!! When this happens, he fits perfectly with your friends and family. Remember, if you care about friends and family, don't forget to take your bro with you!

stormwizard · Post by **stormwizard** » Sat Apr 24, 2004 6:00 pm

get rid of jaheria she cant use the weapons that any1 else can and yes to every1 that says that she has very good spells and weapons and iron skins but every1 else has BETTER than hers amoen can do everything the same plus he levels up faster and always is one of my better ppl in my partys jan i would keep becuase otherwise if u got rid of him ur party would have to little magic power

stalker and keldon and sarevock= perfect fighting power anything after this will just take away to fight some of the harder battles

jan amoen and imoen- with this u will be able to have a powerful cleric who can also go into tanking mode if u chose to and be very effective at the same time jan and imoen will be able to supply a constant amount of plaentars and mord's sords etc. they will blast ppl away with dragons breath be able to use the cheesy project images with even more riduculous power 2 mages will also allow that they will actually be better at bluffing ur party becuase protection from magical weapons IMO is much better than almost anything else u will aslo have another mage incase one goes down in battle

u will also have jan to set spike traps which will make battles much much much easier i dont kno hwo some ppl argue to get rid of anoem he is millions of times better than jaheria jaherias only got insect plague/swarm on him and iron skins and the greater elemental summoning but of course not much of this will matter as she will always be the first to die because of her slow leveling up

krunchyfrogg · Post by **krunchyfrogg** » Sun Apr 25, 2004 12:11 am

Stormwizard, do you just randomly add thoughts to threads without actually reading what is written?

Vekolaiv · Post by **Vekolaiv** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 4:15 am

What about Minsc ?
what level, ecquipments ?

might you be willing to change evil but kicking comerade to a whining selfloving cleric ?

Thrain · Post by **Thrain** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 5:08 am

Originally posted by krunchyfrogg
Stormwizard, do you just randomly add thoughts to threads without actually reading what is written?

yes, i think he does.

with regard to the topic, i think you have enough magery to be blasting through pretty much anyone. ToB is very melee orientated because of all the resistances handed out like candy to enemies.

there are good arguments for both keldorn and Anomen. Keldorn with Carsomyr, Anomen with FoA and the Crom both make great fighters. Anomen's THAC0 might be a problem, but with gaunlets of specialisation and grandmastery you can overcome that.

personally i'd keep Ano. even though i hate his personality, i love the priestly spells. what you have to remember is Jaheira will not be reaching her optimum level (in terms of high level spells) until 6 million exp, and there are spells she can't use that come in handy (restoration being one).

but it really is up to you. either will perform just as well in your party as you have a great tank in Minsc and an equal (if not better) fighter in Jaheira when she's buffed. it's about the roleplay man, all about the roleplay.

Raumoheru · Post by **Raumoheru** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 6:48 am

skipping ovwer what others said and putting in my 2 cents.....

if u want to use the item upgrade mod u can use the carsomyr and the soul reaver and forge them into a powerfull *evil* sowrd that only evil people can use. so keldorn is dropable.

but since u got jaheira and she is a druid u can use her healing powers when u need them. Anomen can go. there are always potions too....

overall anomen sucks compared to seravok or keldorn so he is rather useless in that party