Experience Point Penalties - Henchmen, Familiars, etc.

Zebulon · Post by **Zebulon** » Wed May 12, 2004 12:12 pm

In Chapter 2, at Level 9, Grimgnaw basically mows through opponents before my character even has a chance to engage them. While impressive to watch, it doesn't make for a very interesting or challenging game. So, I primarily solo, unless it's a boss monster that I can't devise a strategy to defeat.

I've heard a mention that soloing maximizes the character's XP, and that the use of henchmen and familiars decreases the XP allocation. I'm not sure about Summoned Creatures.

I would guess, but am by no means certain, that the level of the henchman or familiar is a factor in determining the penalty. If so, it may be a reason to choose to not "Level Up" the henchmen available.

Does anyone know the manner in which NWN calculates the XP allocation when henchmen/familiars/summoned creatures are employed? If one of the above dies before the conclusion of a melee, does that character still count for the allocation? Not that I'd attack my familiar, but I may not heal him towards the end of a battle if it means more XP.

-Zeb

Noober · Post by **Noober** » Thu May 13, 2004 12:11 am

I think only HotU decreases the amount of XP gained if you have a henchman/familiar and it doesn't penalise XP for summons (taking one hench will penalise you 12.2% I think). The level of the PC will decide how much XP (e.g. a level 40 character won't gain 50XP from killing a gnoll, only about 4) gained but not that of your henchman (or maybe it's whichever is highest). I'm not sure how XP is allocated regarding deaths. If you are worried about losing XP, don't, you can kill your henchmen for XP and ressurect them later.

Stilgar · Post by **Stilgar** » Thu May 13, 2004 1:34 am

You get an XP penalty for your entire party (Henchmen familiars and summons).

When you have only your henchmen (1 level lower then you) you get 20% less experience (just try it yourself). With a familiar and a henchmen you get even less but i dont know how much. (Never bothered to calculate)

if your henchmen or familiar dies in combat you get experience as if it wasnt in the party.

PS. They dont realy get experience they just lvl up when you do.
PS2. Everywhere where i talked about henchmen/familiar summons count to.

Let me know if you triend NOT leveling up your henchmen

Zebulon · Post by **Zebulon** » Fri May 14, 2004 8:53 am

Henchman Levelling Up

Whacked the same Troll a few times. I'm a L11 character.

On my own, 19 XP per troll.
w/Daelan at L8, 15 XP
w/Daelan at L10, 15 XP
w/Daelan, familiar and summoned creature, 11 XP

It would appear that the level of the Henchman has no effect on the XP penalty.

It also seems that the cost to using familiar/summoned creatures outweighs their utility in battle. I think having a hawk on my shoulder is quite cool, but there is no way that it and a Dire Badger have the same utility as a L10 Henchman.

In a perfect world, I would think that the level of Summoned Creatures, Familiars and Henchmen would control the XP effect as their abilities usually are directly tied to who does the bloody work during a melee.

Noober · Post by **Noober** » Fri May 14, 2004 6:02 pm

This I assume is NWN? Could you try a test w/Daelan, familiar (no summons)?

Zebulon · Post by **Zebulon** » Sat May 15, 2004 8:28 am

Found a few trolls remaining. Still as a L11 character, tried all the combinations.

Interestingly, regardless of whether henchman, familiar or summoned creature, adding one companion to the party dropped the XP from 19 to 15. Adding a second dropped the XP to 12, adding all three dropped to 11. Order and identity were utterly irrelevant.

Looking at the progression 19 to 15 to 12 to 11, I'm guessing that the first companion is a 20% penalty, the second is a 15% penalty, the third a 5%. I don't have any charmed animals handy, it would be interesting to see whether the 5% continues or if it drops to zero at the fourth companion.

My observation is that Summoning a Familiar would never be worth the XP penalty unless it is the third companion. That's a bit of a shame, as (from the RPG perspective) a Wizard ought to want to have his familiar around for non-combat reasons. Also, it strongly argues for soloing unless help is really needed.

Rob-hin · Post by **Rob-hin** » Sun May 16, 2004 7:54 am

Originally posted by Stilgar
You get an XP penalty for your entire party (Henchmen familiars and summons).

XP penalty only counts for henchmen. Familiars and summons are part of your characters ability, XP penalty wouldn't be fair towards certain classes.

if your henchmen dies in combat you get experience as if it wasnt in the party.

Nope, he gets XP. This is the rule incase you ressurect him. The whole party involved gets XP wheter they die or not.

Stilgar · Post by **Stilgar** » Sun May 16, 2004 8:21 am

Originally posted by Rob-hin
XP penalty only counts for henchmen. Familiars and summons are part of your characters ability, XP penalty wouldn't be fair towards certain classes.

True, but in the SP NWN campaign you still get less experience

Originally posted by Rob-hin
Nope, he gets XP. This is the rule incase you ressurect him. The whole party involved gets XP wheter they die or not.

Again in the SP NWN campaign this isnt the case

Rob-hin · Post by **Rob-hin** » Sun May 16, 2004 8:27 am

What do you mean with SP?

Stilgar · Post by **Stilgar** » Sun May 16, 2004 12:02 pm

Single player

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Sun May 16, 2004 11:24 pm

Stilgar is correct - there is a difference in XP if you have henchmen/familiars and summons, as Zebulon's figures also shows.
And if the henchmen dies- you gain more XP, so in effect he is not in your party.
The rules of 3.ed D&D might differ, but NwN handles it this way.

As for it being fair - then it does look like certain classes also gain more XP overall per enemy in the first place. My arcane classes and rogues gets more XP for the same monsters/enemies then my fightertypes do, when I solo.

Stilgar · Post by **Stilgar** » Mon May 17, 2004 1:48 am

That's depending on the class you gifht against.
Fighters get less exp against other fighters, while mages get more.
But mages get less against other mages.

Why? No idea

Rob-hin · Post by **Rob-hin** » Mon May 17, 2004 11:38 am

Probably because of what I mentioned earlyer, or perhaps because of the fact that a low level mage is a lot weaker then a low level fighter.

It's not probable that it depends on what you are fighting though, that would be strange. So it's strange if there really is a difference.

Who knows for sure... They only made it hard on themselves by altering 3(,5) rules though.

Arachnol · Post by **Arachnol** » Fri May 21, 2004 6:55 am

XP and classes

Hey

I noticed also that the XP you gain from fights depends on your class: the prelude is a good example for it.

Tried with a fighter and then a mage character. The XP I got from goblins INCREASED while I levelled with the mage, while it DECREASED with the fighter.

Should always decrease if you apply the Challenge Rating rules, but I guess that NWN handles it differently.

The alignement is also an issue.

Playing a GOOD character gives you more XP for handling good quests (like rescuing Master John in the Peninsula district).

Any insight about the class thing welcome

Xandax · Post by **Xandax** » Fri May 21, 2004 7:03 am

It looks to me as if each "being" you have in group counts as a higher level for your character when giving out XP.
So if you have a level 4 character with 1 henchmen, it gives you exp as if you were level 5.

Will have to look more into this, but this was what it looked like when I playing now, mostly soloing.