Why I love Planescape: Torment

octopi · Post by **octopi** » Fri May 14, 2004 6:25 pm

I thought I’d write a few lines on the best game I have ever had the good fortune to play. It’s kind of funny that I’m doing so now, some 3 years after I’ve played it, but it’s never quite left my thoughts. As this seems to be the only active (and that may be stretching the definition somewhat) Torment board left, I thought it’d be nice to do my bit to keep things lively and to express my thoughts, based on my experience, on the game. First, some background.

I used to be, in days long past, a PnP RPGer and had a lot of fun running AD&D campaigns. As I got older, I had less and less time to devote to RPGs and as a consequence dropped out of the PnP gaming scene. Fortunately, some years later the first CRPGs started to appear and I managed to dabble in a few of them, such as Hillsfar and Ultima, mostly at a friend’s house, as he had a computer and I didn’t. The first CRPG I actually played in full was Fallout. That set a bar for all future CRPGs and it was a pretty high one at that. I moved on to FO2, then BG2 and BG2: ToB. I think I played Torment between BG2 and BG2: ToB but can’t be certain. Maybe it was before BG2 but anyway…

Torment was, no, is a classic. It is the only game I have ever played that had a story so well woven and engrossing that I had eyes (and ears) for little else besides the tale, whose magic was very much in its telling. The graphics and sound played a supporting, albeit essential, role in conveying an atmosphere of otherworldliness tinged with a sense of longing in a world ripe for discovery. Right from the start you knew Torment would be different. No throwaway plots on vengeance or saving the world that serve as the staple of so many games nowadays. As I went deeper into the game, uncovering pieces of the Nameless One’s past, I began to develop a sense of kinship with him, and I began to enjoy and appreciate the presence of the companions, in my case, Annah, Morte, Fall-from-Grace, D’akkon and Vhailor. I can honestly say no other game has made me empathise as much as I did with the protagonist and perhaps no game ever will.

Torment bore the hallmark of a Greek Tragedy, wherein the main character suffers a great misfortune brought about by his own actions; however, the misfortune is one which is, from my standpoint, almost undeservedly harsh and disproportionate. I suppose every great film or game strikes a deep chord within each of us in its own way. Mine was the gradual discovery that the fates of the Nameless One’s companions were bound inextricably to his, just as those of the Practical One’s companions were to his. In some way, the realisation that, whether good or evil (here conveniently ignoring the Paranoid incarnation), he was surrounded by those loyal to him, resonated. In particular, his underlying relationship with Morte and D’akkon and Annah/Deionarra’s love for him despite the odds truly tugged at my heartstrings.
Then there was the whole wherefore of the Nameless One: Here stood a man who so wronged the world that he sought to atone for his misdeeds even if it took him an eternity, only to discover that the punishment lay in his atonement.

Having trawled through some of the message boards, I could never quite understand the complaints from a few about the length of dialogue. For me at least, the dialogue and interaction with both your companions and other characters formed the cornerstone of an epic RPG. I think I may have shed a tear at the end, when the Nameless One stands, knowing he has been damned yet having found peace, and says, “What can change the nature of a man?” before striding off to do battle.

It is evident that Planescape: Torment was a labour of love. It could not have been otherwise. To its creators, my heartfelt thanks.

Vicsun · Post by **Vicsun** » Mon May 17, 2004 11:17 am

Beautifully written

Locutus · Post by **Locutus** » Mon May 17, 2004 11:35 am

wow heh is it love?must be
id say alot of RPG veterans were given a slap in the face when they found out that solving quests in P:T is like finding the needle in the stack of NEEDLES (only much much more fun)

THA game With the philosophy and a lifeworthing exp.

fable · Post by **fable** » Mon May 17, 2004 1:59 pm

Originally posted by Locutus
wow heh is it love?must be
id say alot of RPG veterans were given a slap in the face when they found out that solving quests in P:T is like finding the needle in the stack of NEEDLES (only much much more fun)

What are you talking about? Quest-solving in PS:T is no less logical than in other RPGs, though it does presume a greater degree of memory retention than, say, Sacred's "go there and kill that."

But if you want to debate this issue, start up another thread. Please respect Octopi's intention for this one, even if you don't agree.

Locutus · Post by **Locutus** » Mon May 17, 2004 2:25 pm

Originally posted by fable
What are you talking about? Quest-solving in PS:T is no less logical than in other RPGs, though it does presume a greater degree of memory retention than, say, Sacred's "go there and kill that."
But if you want to debate this issue, start up another thread. Please respect Octopi's intention for this one, even if you don't agree.

it was intended as a compliment to the game, and a slap goes to the traditional players used to the idea of go there-kill that quests!!!

fable · Post by **fable** » Mon May 17, 2004 2:29 pm

Okay, I'll accept that. It's a bit hard to read what you wrote, you know.

But yes, I think you're correct. You have to make intuitive judgments on occasion, rather than simply "proceed from point a to point b" ones. The writing is superb. It is the only CRPG I've played that could claim a quality on level with some decent fantasy novels.

Locutus · Post by **Locutus** » Tue May 18, 2004 10:22 am

Originally posted by fable
Okay, I'll accept that. It's a bit hard to read what you wrote, you know.

yup,well even we european intelectuals

rolleyes: ),can still make alot of linguistic errors.....so these kind of remarks from orthodox speakers are actualy very welcome and apreciated

btw, was PT sotoryline based upon a novel or a board game, or is it made from scratch....(theres not much chance i could find that out in my country)?

fable · Post by **fable** » Tue May 18, 2004 11:06 am

By the way, your English is no worse than my German, so I have no room for complaint.

My understanding is that the universe it was set in derives from a board game, but the writing and characters were completely new.

Gauda · Post by **Gauda** » Sat May 29, 2004 2:08 pm

I just finished plane scape torment, and I must say, the end was somewhat confusing, why waste your mortal life in the bloodwar?

*spoilers ahead*
Great game though, I did not actually shed a tear, and didn't find the end sentimental at all (unlike Baldurs gate 2, might almost have forced a tear with the last dialog with elisime and joneleth), and rather somewhat confusing because I expected to find a greater purpose behind my mortallity than simply wanting it. the three alter egos was great though, and so was the excalted one, very cool voice

. And I agree with all the others, I have never ever seen a CRPG where the story elements have been so thouroughly interwoven in the game, even though you really did not know anything before the end of the game, other than you have lived alot of other lifes, and each time take anothers life. There was ALOT of text, yes, and sometimes it was tiresome, but for the most of the time it represented, and still represents what great RPGS are all about, the story, not the action.

fable · Post by **fable** » Sun May 30, 2004 8:19 am

Personally, I think the PS:T was simply setting the stage for the next game in the series. I've seen conflicting comments about this, but two members of the team at various teams told me there was another game in the works; and Interplay's PR team confirmed this, back then. I can't speak for anybody else, but I would have been fascinated with at least the Order-Evil side of the conflict and its personalities, and how the NO interacted with them.

It also would have provided a certain sense of symmetry for this most literate of game developing teams. PS:T began in death and corruption--literally, in a mortuary--and rose to a redemption that wasn't in the least bit hackneyed or cliched. I can easily see a successor that would begin in evil and forced conflict, and rise above it to a higher view of the universe. Just my point of view.

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Sun May 30, 2004 5:43 pm

@octopi
That is a wonderfully written review, it articulates so much of what makes Planescape Torment one of the best, if not the best, games to have ever been created. Thank you for posting that

Vicsun · Post by **Vicsun** » Mon May 31, 2004 4:47 am

Originally posted by Gauda
I just finished plane scape torment, and I must say, the end was somewhat confusing, why waste your mortal life in the bloodwar?

Spoilers ahead:

He had no choice. The reason why he asked Ravel to make him immortal was because he had done some great crime during his first life. A crime so great all the evil done by later incarnations was dwarfed by it. Because of this crime he was punished to serve in the blood war. TNO was hoping that through immortality he would have enough time to reverse the evils he had done, but the Nighthag's spell was not truly successful making TNO lose his memory. There is a veteran from the blood war in the sensates' building, who explains about how evil creatures are forced to serve in Baator / Abyss for eternety after their death.

That being said, I recommend you play through the game again

Trust me, a lot more makes sense the second time around.

Gauda · Post by **Gauda** » Mon May 31, 2004 7:29 am

Thanks for explaining, now that you mention it, I do recall someone talking about that. There was alot of reading, and I did not take it all in, because not all was important you know

. And I am going to play the game again, do not doubt, even though the replay value is not as enourmos as it is in bg2:soa (which I probably have beaten 20 times), it still has nonetheless. I played wizard last time, and with my 25 int, and 22 con he kicked ass

, and I must say, the spell effects in any other infinityengine game, completely pales to that in PT, although it was kinda boring at times to watch them, especially fire and ice, but at first they were absolutely stunning, even 4 years after the release. This time though, I'm going to be a fighter, with 25 con, the regen was insane with 22, so I wonder how it will be with 25

VonDondu · Post by **VonDondu** » Mon May 31, 2004 8:14 am

One of the tattoos improves the rate of regeneration. I think it's the Tattoo of the Lost Incarnation. If you use that and the NO's CON is 24 or 25, he'll regenerate about two hit points per second, if I recall correctly, or maybe even faster.

Gauda · Post by **Gauda** » Mon May 31, 2004 1:04 pm

hm, with 22 con I regenned about 2 hitpoints a second, I think.

dobbin · Post by **dobbin** » Wed Jun 02, 2004 6:30 pm

octopi:

Thank you for putting into words what I - and, I believe, many others - feel after having played this game. I have yet to find a game based on a story as intelligent, well - told and, ultimately, as moving as Torment. I fondly remember playing into the wee hours of the night just to uncover a bit more of the mystery behind this nameless, unlikely hero, or to discover something more about the secrets of the NPCs, their connection with TNO and their ulterior motives for following him. And after finishing it, well, it made every other RPG seem somewhat trivial: it's plot insignificant, it's NPCs cardboard cutouts. I guess PS:T does have this 'side - effect'

In my view people who judge PS:T harshly do this strictly on its merits as an RPG, which in fact it isn't. Sure, PC customizability was limited. Sure, the battles were rather unchallenging. Sure, there was too much text. But PS:T was not about the battles or about stashing up the rarest items and the most powerful weaponry; it was all about the story. I feel PS:T was rather an adventure game, or at least as close to an adventure as an RPG can get. Even its creators admitted this at the time, and IIRC the game was marketed as a Role - Playing Adventure, rather than an RPG. Heck, the only other game that had me misty - eyed like that at the finale is, in fact, an adventure game: Sanitarium. I think this speaks volumes...

Fable:

I would have loved to see Torment followed up by a sequel. I used to linger around the BIS forums with this secret hope; however with the Planescape setting gone and with BIS all but defunct, that seems next to impossible. Maybe (just maybe) Bioware, Obsidian or somebody else will pick up where BIS left off. The creative talent is there, the concept for a sequel is probably also already there and, at least in the case of Bioware, some of their latest material (SW:KotOR) seems to take quite a few cues from Torment. I'll be keeping my fingers crossed, hoping copyright issues don't get in the way.

octopi · Post by **octopi** » Mon Jun 07, 2004 4:13 pm

Thanks for everyone's kind words.

It's interesting to see that quite a few people are in favour of a sequel. Oddly enough, I'm contented with there being only one Torment. I guess it has very much to do with the fact that sometimes it's better to weave a beautiful story with some unanswered questions tucked in. That way, you walk away with your own interpretation of the Nameless One's life and retain a sense of mystery and wonder. A sequel nailing down a particular aspect or entire swath of his existence would probably impoverish more than it would enrich ... but I'm sure mine is a minority view.

Gevaudan'sBeast · Post by **Gevaudan'sBeast** » Mon Jun 21, 2004 11:33 pm

Great thread, it sums up the main feelings attached to PS:T, and I would have to say that I do not believe that PS:T has too much dialogue, as it was the dialogue that played an intricate role in the conveyance of the plot and environment of PS:T. And I am one of those who would appreciate a sequel, however I would hope any sequel would be approached with the same level of detail as found in PS:T. On a side note relating to a sequel, (but i'm not meaning to hijack the thread) I am observing with interest the sequel mod that it is production.

Coot · Post by **Coot** » Thu Jun 24, 2004 11:05 am

A sequel would really be wonderful but IMHO it should be made by the same people that made the original game. And I don't know if that would be possible.

iamweaver · Post by **iamweaver** » Sat Jul 17, 2004 12:00 am

I have to admit that I am glad that there wasn't a sequel. The world is filled with excellent stories whose authors succombed to the "just a little bit more" bait and ended up writing mediocre follow-ons. It is a story with a "beginning" and an end, and as a piece of interactive storytelling, is better than anything that I have ever seen in 40+ years. The only other PC version that comes close to me is "Grim Fandango".

I just finished the Baldur's Gate/Baldur's Gate 2 series, and saw this forum here and had to stop by

. BG was fun, quite challenging (with the various mods nowadays), and left me a bit teary-eyed when I walked away from my "travelling companions" of over 2 months - but as a story arc, it never held my undivided attention the way that P:T did. I don't fervidly keep up with the latest games, but every so often, I look around, hoping to catch a whiff of another story of this caliber. I am patient...