Is Viconia's alignment deserved?

Quecty · Post by **Quecty** » Tue May 15, 2001 11:03 pm

Just wondering if anybody thinks that Neutral Evil isn't really a fitting alignment for Viconia.I know that your reputation drops if you accept her into the party,but that's only because she is a Drow Elf (no loss of reputation in the case of Edwin or Korgan).Any thoughts on this?

ElvenKing · Post by **ElvenKing** » Tue May 15, 2001 11:26 pm

The whole Drow thing makes it hard not to consider Viconia of evil alignment, plus just listen to some of her stories if you're character's romancing her. She's definitely no angel! However, I've always thought of her as more Lawful Evil than Neutral Evil. Personally, I think Bioware messed up with Edwin and Viconia's alignments and got them backwards. Viconia is more Lawful Evil, while self-centered, arrogant Edwin is definitely Neutral Evil. If you look at the definitions for all alignments in the manual you'll see what I mean.
ElvenKing

velvetfreak · Post by **velvetfreak** » Tue May 15, 2001 11:26 pm

Yes, I think NE fits. She's got a cruel streak as evidenced by her banter with other NPCs - particularly Aerie - And is also a determinist in philosophy, she believes in survival of the fittest and might-by-right. Aside from her "issues" (eg. "the stink of the rivvin"), she is basically a mean bitch.

Vendetta · Post by **Vendetta** » Tue May 15, 2001 11:31 pm

I always thought Viconia trys to act more evil than she really is.
The way she defends the beggar in the Government district from the Guard, how she refused to sacrifice the baby and the better side of her personality we (rarely) see while romancing her don't really fit into my view of an "evil" character...
But she is definitely a bitch

xFedaykin · Post by **xFedaykin** » Tue May 15, 2001 11:35 pm

I remember reading that in the coming expansion, they're might put a quest that'll change Viconia's alignment to neutral good, or chaotic good.

Orland · Post by **Orland** » Tue May 15, 2001 11:39 pm

Honestly, I agree with the Lawful Evil assessment of Viconia, but there is a reason for her being Neutral Evil. Lawful Evil Characters are bound by the laws of their society. Viconia selfishly chose her beliefs therefore getting her kick out of Drow Society and made an outcast, which is why she is neutral evil, that and as pointed out she acts more evil than she is. I would not be suprised if she changes alignments later (might happen in ToB), if of course, the rest of Faerun leaves her alone and doesn't try to kill her.

But that's my opinion.

Vendetta · Post by **Vendetta** » Tue May 15, 2001 11:48 pm

Originally posted by xFedaykin:
<STRONG>I remember reading that in the coming expansion, they're might put a quest that'll change Viconia's alignment to neutral good, or chaotic good.</STRONG>

I don't think I could swallow Viconia as a "Good" character from what I've seen in BG2...
Chaotic Neutral, perhaps, but not good.

velvetfreak · Post by **velvetfreak** » Tue May 15, 2001 11:57 pm

@Vendetta, I agree, the romances will become completely unbalanced LOL! Everyone will want to pursue Viconia, poor Jaheira and Aerie will be abandoned...

jennabard · Post by **jennabard** » Wed May 16, 2001 12:00 am

viconia defending the begger in the govt district?

i've never heard a peep from her in this scene

and what's the story about her protecting a child?

Quecty · Post by **Quecty** » Wed May 16, 2001 12:04 am

Regarding Elvenking's comment about Viconia being no angel,I totally agree.The story about her revenge on the farmers is an example,but considering the fact that,even though it's more implied than stated,they raped her while she was unconscious,what else should she have done?Going to the local law enforcement was never an option : they'd have just locked her up or executed her.So apart from taking the law into her own hands,the only other option was to leave them unpunished for what they did.

Manveru · Post by **Manveru** » Wed May 16, 2001 12:32 am

I don't know if everyone knows my feelings for Drows and Viconia but my opinion is :

She should be chaotic evil - I hate her, It is the pleasure to burn her in Government district - not mentioning this moral improving crusades when Manveru, his party and several Pit fiends make desolation in the whole Ust'Nasha

Mwhahahahahaha.

xFedaykin · Post by **xFedaykin** » Wed May 16, 2001 1:42 am

I think there's plenty of basis for changing Viconia into a chaotic good character.

From some of the conversations the romance plot with Viconia reveals, there is more good in her than what she initially lets on.

There's her revulsion of some of the Drow's horrible ways, the love for her brother who died protecting her, and her desire to lead a peaceful, solitary life, away from the evils of drow and surfacer laws and politics.

Most of the "crimes" she committed on the surface were always because of ill-treatment. She was forced to become a Calim****e's slave, she was tortured raped and buried alive by a bunch of drunken farmers, and when you found her, she was about to be burned alive for simply being what she is.

Her ill-temper, racist remarks and casual regard for death and murder is a result of her upbringing in the drow world, but its implied that she was yearned for something far more peaceful.

Though she might not regret the murder of the farmers who raped her, my chaotic good ranger also does not regret the deaths of countless people and creatures who I considered were evil.

Krimmy · Post by **Krimmy** » Wed May 16, 2001 1:43 am

Hey Manveru I feel the same way about Anomen

Only there's no way for me to see him burn at the stake

I wonder how many times you'll be able to summon a NPC...methinks if there isn't a maximum amount, Anomen is going to be feeling mighty low

moriveth · Post by **moriveth** » Wed May 16, 2001 2:32 am

IIRC, Viconia told the tale of killing the farmers and exactly what she did to them with a certain amount of relish--and certainly no regret. Torture is a little more than simply killing someone.

She's quite vicious to other party members and both does and advocates some pretty cruel actions. Really, you don't see many of the more positive aspects to her character except in the romance, but I think she could convincingly be turned into a neutral (good would be a stretch) character as the romance is continued in ToB--and thinking about it, this might have been intended from the start.

Anyway, it's pointless to quibble about the label slapped on the NPCs; any interesting character isn't going to be so easily categorized. It's a *good* thing that BG2 doesn't have the NPCs fit their alignments very well--it gets in the way of nuanced characterization.

Quecty · Post by **Quecty** » Wed May 16, 2001 2:46 am

Regarding the romance choices for male PC's,I would probably go with Viconia,the reason being the protaganist,a Child of Bhaal,could identify being the object of fear and distrust,simply because of what he is.I found the Jaheira romance somewhat uncomfortable,seeing as it takes place so soon after Khalid's death.The PC,by this time,would have adventured quite a bit with Khalid,and would consider him a good friend.

Manveru · Post by **Manveru** » Wed May 16, 2001 3:13 am

I found the Jaheira romance somewhat uncomfortable,seeing as it takes place so soon after Khalid's death.The PC,by this time,would have adventured quite a bit with Khalid,and would consider him a good friend.

I plan (after passing all my exams on University) to go through BG1 and BG2 ToB to make the ultimate story of the Manveru Telcontar , mighty child of Bhaal.

My PC will be in romance with Jaheira - and it will be logical because in the first phasees I will sleep many days (eg. in Windspear Hills to have something to do between sleeping - killing these pity goblins (or I will modify script to fight with something more dangerous) then after some 100-300 days (3 months - 1 year) it will be really more logical to have romance with Jaheira, and the story will have some sense, there is also place for Viconia (to cause more mess in my group of course).

Garcia · Post by **Garcia** » Wed May 16, 2001 3:58 am

I the Dock dis. a little girl will come runnig to you and tell you about her father that is dead, her sick crippled mom and asks you if you can spair a few gold coins (I was chaotic evil at this stage) so I told her to run home to her crippled mom and get out of my sight! the little girl starts to cry and Viconia says something like:"well done!she has to learn some day to make her money some day now scram!
I don't remember the exact words but trust me evil they were!

velvetfreak · Post by **velvetfreak** » Wed May 16, 2001 4:12 am

My personal feeling on alignment change is that it would take fairly drastic circumstances to effect the change. You don't suddenly wake up one morning and go "hmm I feel like strangling puppies today" or "gosh I feel guilty about strangling those puppies, I think I'll be nice to everybody from now on" (substitute kittens if you're a dog lover). In Viconia's case it would have to be in the context of the romance where her world gets turned upside-down because no rivvin has ever shown her compassion for any length of time before. (Be prepared for more of those mood swings...

)

Do you know what, the business with Khalid doesn't bother me at all with Jaheira. I think they scripted it very well, and don't feel like I'm stepping in his shoes at all. Okay, perhaps it moves a bit fast, but in a world like the Sword Coast where death lurks behind every corner, there's no time to lose... Or you could also put it down to taking solace in her embrace after a very traumatic torture experience. See - when I think of it like that I can't see how any relationship at this point in the PC's life could be that "healthy".

I think I should stop right there

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Wed May 16, 2001 9:09 am

I find Viconia's character to be the most tragic in the game. She seems to be a metaphor for the kid from "the wrong side of the tracks" trying to flee an upbringing from which --in her case-- there appears to be no escape. Further, she doesn't belong anywhere; she feels uncomfortable with the Drow beliefs, but yet partly through some of her actions and partly through her treatment at the hands of the "Riven" (frankly, I suspect that in the real world many women who have been in Viconia's situation would have liked to dole out a similar revenge.....)she does not fit into surfacer society either.

I find it reasonable, however, to think that her alignment could be changed to chaotic neutral, perhaps through a quest in TOB. Besides haven't the game developers stated that all the romances will continue in TOB? Since the relationship is over by the time you get to the end of the SOA, there will have to be some kind of event to reignite the romance in TOB.
Afterall, Anomen's alignment changes depending on the actions of the pc, so why not Viconia's? She has questioned the Drow beliefs, which have lead to her fleeing the Underdark. Wouldn't an aligment switch to chaotic neutral, after slowly beginning to comprehend the meaning of a relationship with a caring pc, be a next logical step? She has tears in her eyes when she ends the relationship, and she does not seem convinced by her decision, to me that dialogue was very inconclusive and open-ended.

Wycen Adamantite · Post by **Wycen Adamantite** » Wed May 16, 2001 11:02 am

Originally posted by jennabard:
<STRONG> viconia defending the begger in the govt district? i've never heard a peep from her in this scene

and what's the story about her protecting a child?</STRONG>

Viconia's fall from grace within drow society was precipitated by her hesitation to sacrifice a baby. In one of Lolth's rituals, she was required to murder a baby. She saw no reason for it, "It would bring no power and no glory to Lolth" I believe is what she tells the PC. The other priestess in the ritual noticed this waver of faith and so the fall of her house and subsequent life on the run was laid before her.