Help on Alignment please

Druss · Post by **Druss** » Tue Apr 10, 2001 2:23 pm

My parties reputation has just hit 20. Korgan left just prior to this grumbling about how goody goody the group was getting.

Now Jaheira and Yoshimo are starting to grumble as they're true neutral.

What I'd like to know is whether they will run off as well or will they just moan now and again?

Also with alignment and reputation in mind, what would be a good group of NPC's to have?
My main character is a Lawful Good Paladin Cavalier.

As you can tell I do like playing in a most heroic manner.

Thanks for any help you can give.

Druss

Cloud · Post by **Cloud** » Tue Apr 10, 2001 2:28 pm

jaheira and yoshimo wont leave they will just complain as far as i know. all evil characters will leave though.

Angelus · Post by **Angelus** » Tue Apr 10, 2001 3:07 pm

Everybody evil will leave at rep 20 perhaps even 19.
The neutral ones will never leave as long as you are above rep 1. But they won't stop complaining either.

Idiyen · Post by **Idiyen** » Tue Apr 10, 2001 3:17 pm

Jaheria: You saved another child? WTF?!??! You'd better polish off a commoner of i'm gonna be right-pissed at you.

Angelus · Post by **Angelus** » Tue Apr 10, 2001 3:27 pm

If you want an all heroic party get Keldorn, Mazy, Valygar and Nalia.
They are so good I just can't stand it.

Oh, and don't forget Minsc, but he is at least funny.

[ 04-10-2001: Message edited by: Angelus ]

ElvenKing · Post by **ElvenKing** » Tue Apr 10, 2001 3:52 pm

Druss - Pretty soon you are going to want to run Jaheira through with the Holy Avenger. After a bunch of "We must strive to maintain balance..." reminders, I ended up dumping her, romance or no!
Actually what you've run into is what I think is a pretty cool move by the designers. No more mixing party alignments just to get the strongest possible NPC's. Now gamers actually need to respect alignment choices when putting together a party, at least in the long term. My advice would be use the evil and neutral aligned NPC's early in the game before your reputation rises too high to do their quests, then drop them for a comparable good NPC for the long haul. I too enjoy playing 'good' parties and found this method to work very well.
Bear in mind that this is just my opinion, but I found this to be an excellent 'goody' party, tailored for your Cavalier!

You (LG Cavalier)
Minsc (CG Ranger)
Anomen (LN Fighter/Cleric)
Valygar (NG Stalker) OR Mazzy (LG Fighter)
Aerie (LG Cleric/Mage)
*Nalia (CG Thief/Mage) OR *Jan Jansen (CN Illusionist/Thief)

*To be replaced once you get Imoen (NG Thief/Mage) back

Now to explain. Anomen starts as a Neutral, but if you do his quest properly becomes Good and a better cleric to boot. Mazzy or Valygar I find to be similar; both make good support characters (Mazzy is better with a bow, but Valygar can backstab with Katanas). Aerie makes a good backup cleric/mage, plus she's a perfect romance for your knight! For the last slot, I would take Jan Jansen until you get Imoen back for the following reasons. He makes a great thief, his dialogues are hilarious, he's great to use to take down other mages defenses which leaves Aerie open to go on the offensive. Plus, Nalia's war cry is REALLY annoying...
Just my two cents,
ElvenKing

[ 04-10-2001: Message edited by: ElvenKing ]

fable · Post by **fable** » Tue Apr 10, 2001 4:05 pm

I would not personally suggest going with evil characters and then dropping them for good--you lose the levels they've gained.

Instead, work with what you've got.

If your party is evil/neutral and your reputation is getting close to the Heroic, plan to picpocket some isolated citizen. Once you've been caught, your reputation will drop by 2. You'll also find that everytime your personal NPC becomes the Slayer, your reputation drops by 2. Ideally, you can keep your rep floating around 17-18 without any problems.

A good/neutral party doesn't need to worry about rising reputation, of course. I would suggest that a good party needs a heavyduty mage NPC, however, since the best mage in the game is evil--Edwin. Since you don't want to mix good with evil (they even end up attacking one another), you'll want somebody who can cast those highend spells that Aerie can't reach. (Alternatively, you can always replace Jan/Nalia with Imoen when you reacquire her, but that's a long ways off, and again wastes all that time and effort you've invested in developing Jan or Nalia.)

ElvenKing · Post by **ElvenKing** » Tue Apr 10, 2001 4:19 pm

@fable - However, all characters can reach the experience cap, even going with a full 6 members for the entire game. During my last game with a Jester, I ended up using every NPC (except Viconia who doesn't have a quest) in order to do their quests and expand the entire adventure. Even so, I still capped out by the time I hit Chapter 6. In the case of Korgan, I would recommend picking him up right at the start then promptly dumping him as soon as his quest is over - he'll be happy to hit the tavern and you will walk away with some much needed cash!
With regards to Neutral characters it becomes a question of how much a person can tolerate the constant whining (especially Jaheira's!) once their reputation gets too high. In his original post Druss mentioned he liked to play heroic parties. The party I mentioned stems from that; all happy do-gooders, no alignment conflicts.
I don't necessarily think using Jan or Nalia only until you get Imoen back is a waste of experience or development. The objective is to get to Imoen, accepting the services of various NPC's to help reach that goal is what they're there for. Imoen will still max out experience wise, and in the meantime someone else gets to adventure in her stead.

[ 04-10-2001: Message edited by: ElvenKing ]

fable · Post by **fable** » Tue Apr 10, 2001 5:57 pm

Elvenking, I'm not objecting to what you're saying. I'm only saying I prefer a different way of doing things. Each is as good as the other.

While it's true that all characters can reach their exp cap by the end of the game, a player can really face some tough times if they bring in inexperienced NPCs after having developed other NPCs by several levels. Suddenly, your party strength will be considerably reduced, in the probable face of some pretty serious foes. That's why I prefer to stay with the NPCs I've had for quite some time--evil or otherwise.

As to the whining of neutrals, I've filtered that out long ago.

[ 04-10-2001: Message edited by: fable ]

ElvenKing · Post by **ElvenKing** » Tue Apr 10, 2001 9:08 pm

fable - Hmmm, good point about bringing in inexperienced NPC's. I never really thought about it that way. So when you play through a game do you skip all the NPC quests that you might be able to do (ie: decide on who you are going to use prior to starting and going after them ASAP)? Usually I find myself using the old 5 core members, 1 rotating NPC party configuration in order to do all available quests. However this time through I'm giving it a go with a thief PC so I hope to try some NPC's I've never used for long - Mazzy, Haer'Dalis, Nalia through the entire game. Easier said than done however - it's hard to not play your favourites...
ElvenKing

fable · Post by **fable** » Tue Apr 10, 2001 9:17 pm

Elvenking, I tend to keep whomever I have in my party. I accept Valygar only long enough to enter the Planar Sphere (which isn't a cheat, since we know he's the key--and that's all I want him for).

My good/neutral parties have tended to include Keldorn, Minsc, Jaheira, Jan, and Aerie--though if I play again, I may ditch Misc for Anomen. My evil/neutral parties usually include Kogorn, Jaheira, Viconia, Jan, and Edwin. When my good party encounters Imoen, she's added back into the party, in place of Jan; not so, when I run an evil/neutral party.