Unbeatable party

Raenvan · Post by **Raenvan** » Tue Apr 24, 2001 4:08 am

After thinking a lot how to make the best paty without NPC's I decided for this exceptionally powerful group:

Human Undead Hunter - the best character for Carsomyr.
Human Kensai/Mage - with Celestial Fury, Dak'kon's Zerth Blade he's a very good fighter and Robe of the Apprenti gives him an acceptable AC.
Human Ranger/Cleric - all priest spells, with Flail of Ages and Crom Faeyr fights well.
Dwarf Fighter/Thief - backstabber and someone who can use Dwarven Thrower.
Human Swashbuckler/Mage - opens locks and finds traps, wears Bladesinger Chain, and uses Staff of the Magi and Short Bow of Gesen.
Gnome Cleric/Illusionist - at the beginning the only spellcaster, later with Robe of Vecna the fastest one. He must be the main char because he needs some extra HP's from his familiar.

Bloodstalker · Post by **Bloodstalker** » Tue Apr 24, 2001 11:54 am

nice party....I am currently playing an Undead hunter and love the kit!

strat_frodo · Post by **strat_frodo** » Tue Apr 24, 2001 2:59 pm

nice party, but heaving so much multis means you wont be high lvl (fast)

Macros · Post by **Macros** » Tue Apr 24, 2001 3:11 pm

That party is overkill

Better off just using the undead hunter if that's your main character, and 1 other character,maybe kensai/mage or a dual or multiclassed thief of some sort, that way you level faster. With 6 people in your party, takes forever to level them up

Raenvan · Post by **Raenvan** » Tue Apr 24, 2001 3:37 pm

The party has two multi-class members. The fighter-thief can backstab already at the beginning if thieving skill points were distributed well. The swashbuckler does the other work. The cleric-illusionist is the only one who heals and casts mage spells at first, I think he's a must.
The others would activate their first class soon if they were dualled at low levels. I dualled the Ranger at level 8, the Kensai at 9 and the Swashbuckler at 10.

Andrew Shih · Post by **Andrew Shih** » Tue Apr 24, 2001 3:39 pm

I agree with the choice of an Undead Hunter with the Carsomyr. I also agree with the dual-wielding human ranger dualled to cleric. The dwarf fighter/thief is also a good choice--although I might prefer a halfling fighter/thief especially if you're going to put a different fighter in the #2 slot (the halfling is a little more of a thief--you can give him the AzureEdge or Hangard's Axe by the way and I think he get's a bonus).

I disagree though on the other half of your selections. The Kensai/Mage does NOT have an acceptable AC. Same AC as Edwin just doesn't cut it. And one of the advantages of having a thief/mage is stealth, and if you are going to put points into stealth, you might as well get a backstab out of it, but swashbucklers don't get backstab. I would go with a swashbuckler/cleric instead, and as far as the mage, maybe have a straight out sorcerer. And so, a sorcerer and a swashbuckler/cleric instead of a swashbuckler/mage and a cleric/mage. Replace the Kensai/Mage with a Gnome Barbarian for a magic-resistant tank.

--Riverwind

Bruce Lee · Post by **Bruce Lee** » Tue Apr 24, 2001 5:24 pm

Personally I think I party of six is tough to manage and hardly ever play with it but I agree that it looks powerful. A powerful group should include all skills. The smallest powerful group to me is an elven fmt and a ranger dualed to cleric. If you go for a party of three I would play kensai/mage, ranger/cleric and halfling fighter/thief.
A party of four would consist of a sorceror, ranger/cleric, halfling fighter/thief and a fighter of some sort(possibly paladin if you are good aligned).
A party of five or six can have numerous formations. But to be easy to manage I wouldn't play with more than two spellcasters maybe three if you are good at using them.

The Outsider · Post by **The Outsider** » Tue Apr 24, 2001 7:21 pm

As long as we're being theoretical, a pretty darn powerful party would be the following:

Level 12 fighter | mage
level 12 fighter | cleric
level 12 fighter | thief
raw fighter

Of course, it's kind of cheesy, but hey! everyone had tons of hitpoints.

I don't actually recommend using a party like this, though. I had a lot of fun with the following:

Cleric/mage PC (long-range destruction)
Kensai (silly chainsaw effect)
Swashbuckler | fighter (skills and then chainsaw)

Worked well, but I started to think that I would have preferred a beserker.

Andrew Shih · Post by **Andrew Shih** » Tue Apr 24, 2001 7:42 pm

Bruce Lee:

I agree with you especially on the party of two and of three. Of course, the original question was regarding a party of six....

--Riverwind

Raenvan · Post by **Raenvan** » Wed Apr 25, 2001 2:40 am

Riverwind:

Your ideas are worth considering. The second half of your party might work well, but I would like to show the advantages of my group.

At first the two thief-type members. They divide the works: the swashbuckler finds traps and opens doors, the fighter-thief does backstabbing. Because of that we don't need the thieving bonuses of a halfing. The dwarf has 19 in Constitution and more HP's.

About the Kensai/Mage: In my first version there was a Dwarf Barbarian in his place. But I thought the Kensai/Mage is probably the most popular character, and should be in my group. I admit that he's weaker as a fighter than the Barbarian, but with magic can be much more powerful. With Robe of the Apprenti and Dak'kon's Zerth Blade his AC is -4. With Ring of Protection +2, Ring of Gaxx and Dusty Rose Ioun Stone has a min of -9. The only problem is that the others can not have these good items

You suggest to have a Sorceror and a Swashbuckler/Cleric instead of my Swashbuckler/Mage and Cleric/Illusionist.
There is no question about the Sorceror's strength, he has more high level spells than my two mages together. But the Cleric/Illusionist with the Robe of Vecna casts both mage and cleric spells fast, which is a great ability. On the other hand if you dualled your Swashbuckler to Cleric he could no more use bows. My Swashbuckler-Mage can.

I don't want to say that there is no better teams than mine, I only think that was the best I could field. Of course it has the weakness that levels up slowly as all groups consisting 6 characters.

sigurd · Post by **sigurd** » Thu Apr 26, 2001 12:52 am

Why do people even bother to make a group of 6... a group of 3 that is made is stronger than PC+5 NPC, and what couldnt a group of 6 do then?

Besides, boring to make the full party, no dialouges, no personality.

Bruce Lee · Post by **Bruce Lee** » Sat Apr 28, 2001 10:53 am

Okay I am gonna make a last run through the game with the most powerful group I can make up. I was thinking of Inquisitor, half-orc barbarian, human swashbuckler dualed to fighter at level 10, ranger dualed to cleric at level 7, elven archer, and elven sorceror.
I will let the sorceror focus on spells that weakens the opponents and strenghten my team and let the paladin worry about taking down defences or use insect plague. I believe with my playing style this is the most powerful group.

cheesemage · Post by **cheesemage** » Sat Apr 28, 2001 6:22 pm

people dont relise that theres two things that can kill a party no matter what
1. ctrl y mwwa hahahahahaha
2. a party of 6 lv.99 with very powerful equipment

moriveth · Post by **moriveth** » Sat Apr 28, 2001 10:33 pm

Originally posted by Bruce Lee:
<STRONG>Okay I am gonna make a last run through the game with the most powerful group I can make up. I was thinking of Inquisitor, half-orc barbarian, human swashbuckler dualed to fighter at level 10, ranger dualed to cleric at level 7, elven archer, and elven sorceror.
I will let the sorceror focus on spells that weakens the opponents and strenghten my team and let the paladin worry about taking down defences or use insect plague. I believe with my playing style this is the most powerful group.</STRONG>

I'd take almost the exact same party, except I'd replace the archer with a fighter/mage dual class, a berserker or perhaps kensai dualed at lvl 9. Relying on a sorceror as the only mage forces the sorceror to be something of a generalist. Also, there are a few spells (e.g. Wizard Eye, some summons) that are useful in a fair number of situations that aren't really worth getting for a sorceror.

And having a dual-wielding, improved hasted, stoneskinned, mirror imaged, spell trapped, and improved mantled fighter/mage is a luxury I'd miss.

Of course, I tend to like a magic-heavy party and don't care for archers, so I wouldn't argue with your choice if it fits your style.

Bruce Lee · Post by **Bruce Lee** » Sat Apr 28, 2001 11:34 pm

I thought about those options but whent for archer because having to many people battling up front will make it crowded. I am not used to playing with a party of six so I wanted someone to stay in the back. The ranger/cleric has a lot of summons and can buff up to be a great fighter. Also I don't want to have to much magic since the Inquisitor will dispel their magic aswell as the enemies so I go for tanks that are tough without magic.

Rail · Post by **Rail** » Sun Apr 29, 2001 12:39 am

Bruce, I think you've got a kickin' party, there, But I agree somewhat with moriveth. I'd change your dual swashbuckler to a swash./mage. That would give you one extra spallcaster that could buff up and so combat if needed, and you'd still have 3 VERY solid tanks, the Inquisitor, the barbarian, and the ranger/cleric.

To each his own, I guess. Just MHO.

[ 04-29-2001: Message edited by: Rail ]

Andrew Shih · Post by **Andrew Shih** » Sun Apr 29, 2001 6:31 pm

If you want to prove that you party is unbeatable, you have to try the following rules:

1) No reloads
2) No pauses
3) No cheats

I am trying to see how far I can get with a party I created from scratch--here it is:

1) Undead Hunter with Two-Handed Sword (party leader because he has charisma)
2) Half-Orc Barbarian with Halberd (actually leads the charge because he runs faster)
3) 9/20 Wizardslayer/Cleric with Flail/Morning Star, Sling, and Shield (backup fighting, healing, cleric offensive, magic-resistance/disruption may come in handy, who knows?)
4) Skald with Shortbow, Longsword, Battlesong
5) Halfling Fighter/Thief dual-wielding Scimatar and Katana

--Riverwind

moriveth · Post by **moriveth** » Sun Apr 29, 2001 6:56 pm

<STRONG>If you want to prove that you party is unbeatable, you have to try the following rules:

1) No reloads
2) No pauses
3) No cheats</STRONG>

No reloads or cheats, obviously. Why no pauses--what does that have to do with having an unbeatable party? You aren't going to have time to control spellcasters adequately, narrowing your options considerably.

Restricting pauses to the beginning of turn autopause and not opening the inventory screen during combat makes more sense as an "unbeatable party" standard.

KensaiRyu · Post by **KensaiRyu** » Sun Apr 29, 2001 7:27 pm

__________________________________________________
people dont relise that theres two things that can kill a party no matter what
1. ctrl y mwwa hahahahahaha
__________________________________________________

Actually if you know how to script you can make your character immune to the ctrl y cheat and almost anything, except other script writers...

[ 04-29-2001: Message edited by: KensaiRyu ]

Kovi · Post by **Kovi** » Mon Apr 30, 2001 1:41 am

The no-pause rule prevent the efficient use of spellcasters.
The no-reload rule may result of cautious play: keeping the protaginst out of danger and having many rests (when the important spells/charges are depleted).