Problems with using SK to make a dual-class Kensai/Diviner

Ieldra · Post by **Ieldra** » Thu Sep 23, 2004 2:23 am

After playing countless "legal" characters, I'd like to try something different and make a dual-class Kensai/Diviner.

So I made a Kensai, leveled up a bit, then dualed to mage and changed the Kit to Diviner. That didn't work - two problems:

(1) The Kensai kit entry was gone, so the Kensai abilities didn't reactivate when I reached the required level. And it seems I can duplicate and edit affects with SK, but not add an affect if the table is empty, so I couldn't add the Kensai abilities manually.
A second-rate workaround is possible for this: if I wait with changing the kits until the Kensai abilities reactivate, I retain them, but I must play as a true-class Mage until that time. I don't want that. I wonder if there is a way to add affects to an empty table, using any of the available modding and cheating tools. Does anyone know?

(2) I didn't get the additional spell slot for the Diviner kit. Yes, I could adjust the spells table manually, but then I would have to do it again at every level-up where I get a new spell level, maybe even at every level-up. I'd think the data that tells the engine to add the additional spell slot must be somewhere in the character structure, and thus subject to editing. Does anyone know of a way to get those additional spell slots without the need to edit the spells table after every level-up?

lompo · Post by **lompo** » Thu Sep 23, 2004 2:57 am

You can't get "legally" two kits at the same time, even with SK.
But I maybe there is a way to solve it: make a kensai and level it up, when you are at the desidered lev. change it with SK to a plain warrior, it should keep the bonus of the kensai, now you can dual and you should be able to dual to a specialist mage.
If it doesn't work your only hope is Userunfriendly.

Ieldra · Post by **Ieldra** » Thu Sep 23, 2004 3:23 am

[QUOTE=lompo]You can't get "legally" two kits at the same time, even with SK.
But I maybe there is a way to solve it: make a kensai and level it up, when you are at the desidered lev. change it with SK to a plain warrior, it should keep the bonus of the kensai, now you can dual and you should be able to dual to a specialist mage. If it doesn't work your only hope is Userunfriendly.[/QUOTE]

I'm unconcerned about nominally having two kits. If I have the abilities of both, then for all practical purposes I have both. As I have pointed out, it is possible but with the disadvantages I mentioned - I have only asked if there was a way to avoid them.

Your solution doesn't work at all because you can't dual-class into a kit. Legally you can only have a kit for your first class.

Sytze · Post by **Sytze** » Thu Sep 23, 2004 6:03 am

Add these abilties to your Affect Tab with SK in order to have a Kensai.
Kensai attack bonuses
Type= 0x00000049
Param1= 1
Param2= 0
Flags= 0x00000009
Time= 0
Probability= 100
Target= 0x00000002
Recource 3= SPCL141

Kensai thaco bonuses
Type= 0x00000116
Param1= 1
Param2= 0
Flags= 0x00000009
Time= 0
Probability= 100
Recource 3= SPCL141

Kensai AC bonuses
Type= 0x00000000
Param1= 2
Param2= 0
Flags= 0x00000009
Time= 0
Probability= 100
Target= 0x00000002
Recource 3= SPCL142

You only need to add the AC bonus ones. The THACO and damage bonuses are added for each 3 levels of Kensai. So if you want your Kensai to be level 9, you add the damage and thaco three times. If you want him to be level 15, you add it 5 times. Understand?

You don't have to put anything in the recourse 1 and 2 fields, or any field that I didn't mention here for that matter.

glenfar · Post by **glenfar** » Thu Sep 23, 2004 4:46 pm

[QUOTE=Ieldra]And it seems I can duplicate and edit affects with SK, but not add an affect if the table is empty, so I couldn't add the Kensai abilities manually.[/QUOTE]

I find the easiest way is to copy and paste it from another character - save the game before you dual, and keep it around. When you're ready to regain your Kensai abilities, just open up both your current game and the old save in SK, and copy and paste the abilities over.

[QUOTE=Ieldra]I didn't get the additional spell slot for the Diviner kit.[/QUOTE]

Sorry, as far as I can tell it's impossible (short of manually fixing it every level up) to get the extra spell/level when dualing to a mage.

A couple options though are to go multi-class, or to give yourself the extra spells as innate abilities instead.

Ieldra · Post by **Ieldra** » Fri Sep 24, 2004 1:19 am

Thanks. I just played through Irenicus' Dungeon with this character after cheating a few XP in to see how it would go. All the hassle is probably not worth it. Too many disadvantages. Besides not getting the additional spell slot, I noticed that after the Kensai abilities reactivated, I couldn't use my sling anymore that I had selected as first mage weapon proficiency, which leads to the strange state of being proficient in a weapon I can't use. I thought this kind of weapon restriction for part-classes was restricted to clerics. The same applies to bracers - for 10 levels I have been able to use them, now suddenly I can't use them anymore. Robes work, because they are flagged as "usable by mage" instead of "not usable by Kensai".

I think I'll leave this character alone and restart as a different one. A regular Fighter/Mage will probably be more fun. Unbelievably, I have never played one before.

glenfar · Post by **glenfar** » Fri Sep 24, 2004 9:30 am

When it comes to Class restrictions, it's only Clerics and Druids that retain their restrictions when multi or dual class. However, Kit restrictions are always applied. So yes, a Kensai/anything can't use missle weapons or wear any kind of armour (exception being a high level Kensai/Thief with UAI).

UserUnfriendly · Post by **UserUnfriendly** » Fri Sep 24, 2004 11:04 am

[QUOTE=glenfar]When it comes to Class restrictions, it's only Clerics and Druids that retain their restrictions when multi or dual class. However, Kit restrictions are always applied. So yes, a Kensai/anything can't use missle weapons or wear any kind of armour (exception being a high level Kensai/Thief with UAI).[/QUOTE]

who can't even select ranged weapons prof. when they level up.

really, sytze's suggestion of using the affects, copying and paste-ing them into a mage fighter, kit diviner makes the most sense, in fact you can use slings that way.

applying two or more kits to a character is tricky, and quite prone to peculiar things happening...

many experiments are needed to do it right.

Ieldra · Post by **Ieldra** » Sat Sep 25, 2004 3:21 am

Thanks for all the advice, I've learned a lot trying to get this to work. But I've been thinking an Archer/Mage would be more fun since characters with no ranged attacks don't suit my playing style, and I'll already have one NPC Kensai in the party.... And so it has proven.

Grandpa · Post by **Grandpa** » Mon Sep 27, 2004 12:52 pm

This is easy. When you dual from the Kensai and reactivate it, it doesn't matter if it doesn't say Kensai (I don't know if this is true), because your Kensai damage/thaco/speed affects are still there.

Now the Diviner part. What you do after dualing to a mage is open Shadowkeeper and take away the 2 mage proficiencies (or however much you gained). Set your level to 0 (important), and your experience to 1 (also important). When you load your game up, the game will recalculate your spell slots and proficiencies (and everything else of importance) and make you a level 1 Diviner for your dualled class. That's it, Kensai/Diviner

. It's only challenging to do this with multi-classes, where you have to add the affects to simulate being a Kensai or Swashbuckler, for example.

glenfar · Post by **glenfar** » Mon Sep 27, 2004 1:21 pm

Not quite ...

First of all, just note that there is a difference between being a Kensai and having the abilities - namely the armour/weapon restrictions. That can be seen by some as a big problem, and by others as a bonus ...

As for the Diviner, the problem is the extra spells/level. Even doing the change kit and set level to zero, your first level 'Diviner' will only get one first level spell - he should have two. All you've done is give him the Diviner penalties (no Conjuration spells) without the benefits.

Now that only happens with dualing to a mage - with multi-class it's different. Just create a Diviner, then change him to a Fighter/Mage with the Kensai kit (level 0 fighter). From then on you'll have all the Kensai abilities and restrictions. You'll also have the extra spell/level of the Diviner. The only thing you're missing is the Diviner restriction on Conjuration spells. Which again, is either a big problem or a bonus depending on your viewpoint ...

Ieldra · Post by **Ieldra** » Mon Sep 27, 2004 2:29 pm

That multi-class option sounds nice. Not quite what I had in mind, but interesting nonetheless. And I can always simulate the restrictions by not using any conjuration spells.

So many character types to try, so little time...

Grandpa · Post by **Grandpa** » Mon Sep 27, 2004 6:00 pm

Have you tried it? It works it does

. I haven't tried that multiclass option though, but I think the engine is restricted to using one CLAB file at a time, so you would have Kensai bonuses with a few extra spells (provided you did not reset those mage levels). Maybe not. . .

glenfar · Post by **glenfar** » Mon Sep 27, 2004 6:58 pm

Yes, I've tried it - it doesn't work ... at least not for me (and I gather not for Ieldra). The extra spell/level seems to be a seperate setting from the kit, and the game simply won't set it for a dual-class. Which is also why the multi-class works - even without the Diviner kit, you still have that extra spell setting, and it does not get reset on level ups.

Ieldra · Post by **Ieldra** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 12:56 am

Indeed, the dual-class option did not work for me. I have tried to find the data element responsible for the additional spells, using NearInfinity, but I never found it. Perhaps there's some information in IESDP, but I doubt it.

Sytze · Post by **Sytze** » Tue Sep 28, 2004 2:24 am

If you want a multi-class Kensai-Diviner, you will have to start out either as a Fighter-Mage or as a Diviner.

When you start as a Fighter-Mage, you will have to open SK, and change the kit (not the class!) to Diviner. That way you have a Fighter-Diviner. Then you want to add the affects -which I mentioned in my previous post- to the affects tab, so you will have a Kensai-Diviner multiclass. Remember to set the levels and experience back to zero if you want to have those extra spell slots.

When you start out as a Diviner, you change the class (not the kit!!) to Fighter-Mage. Add those Kensai bonuses ad set experience and levels back to zero. Personally, I think this is the safest route if you want those extra spell slots.

If somehow you are unable to get those extra spells, you might want to ask UserUnfriendly here, or pm him, since he knows how to add extra spells to a spell level. Me, I've never been interested in adding extra spells (only decreasing them

) and thus never asked UU or experimented with it.