charisma or wisdom???

[UserUnfriendly]

some of the more experimental builds i'm planning on the future involves trading wisdom for charisma...

all the builds will be heavy force users and excellent melee fighters..

i know the guides especially the ones in gamefaq all state that both charisma and wisdom affect save rolls of your targets for offensive force power, but none of them mention exactly how. any one know???

btw...

someone slap me...its the 12th time i am restarting kotor. i've gotten as far as 3 worlds...

oh well, latest experiment was with scoundrel counselor...

going to go back to soldier counselor...the scoundrel counselor doesn't seem as fun...i really like bashing things and frying creatures with force powers..

[Koreforce]

If you're trying to build a consular that can work in melee, try the GCH build. But, as to your question about the wis and cha, it's all a matter of preference. Both of them add modifiers to the number of force points you gain per level, but there is something different about them. Charisma adds modifiers to the actual effects of the Powers (tell me if I'm wrong), and Wisdom makes them harder to resist, as well as increasing your Will Saves. Also, charisma adds bonuses to the persuade function.

[Admo]

I'm kind of just guessing here so I might well be wrong. I'm just making links between charisma and wisdom and what effect they should have on the game, and probably do in most cases!

Charisma adds a persaude bonus (I'm sure of this). I also think it helps you with your offensive force powers, so makes them slightly harder to resist, as well as giving you some extra FP per level.

Wisdom, I would guess, is slightly better at the force side of things, as well as giving you that higher will save.

[UserUnfriendly]

[QUOTE=Koreforce]If you're trying to build a consular that can work in melee, try the GCH build. But, as to your question about the wis and cha, it's all a matter of preference. Both of them add modifiers to the number of force points you gain per level, but there is something different about them. Charisma adds modifiers to the actual effects of the Powers (tell me if I'm wrong), and Wisdom makes them harder to resist, as well as increasing your Will Saves. Also, charisma adds bonuses to the persuade function.[/QUOTE]

actually, i've come up with a character that's actually much more evil and powerful than the gch build..

scoundrel guardian...

the one disadvantage of the gch build is the low strength, which lowers the sheer damage of a guardian...sneak attack makes up the hand to hand damage reduction very nicely...combine with force jump, and you have got to see the damage potential...its beyond evil...



yeah, i think you're right...

the consensus with faq writers seem that they, based on actual game play, suggest that a higher wisdom makes the effect of offensive powers much more powerful...cause lets face it, who doesn't love blasting sith with major force powers, wrapping them from head to toe in crackling arcs of energy, making them twitch in agony???

so they would be testing wis and charisma, and probably according to their tests, higher wisdom is more effective offensively...

oh yeah, one more bit of extreme naughtiness..

insanity is will save, wave is fortitude save...

even if i am playing goody two shoes, and you always should cause the force buffing powers of a light side are all so much better than the dark side, it still costs close to same to use insanity than wave...and the will save probably means that higher wisdom will make the power so much more effective..

so be outwardly a goody two shoes galactic savior, but use insanity powers a lot, chuckling at how you've deceived the jedi council about your true motivations, and enjoying your very powerful dark side powers...

[Koreforce]

Yeah, both Wisdom and Charisma add a modifier to the number of FP you get per level. If you are planning on using force powers almost exculsively, make them both even at the character creation, and add your attributes to Wisdom. Wisdom makes all of your offensive force powers harder to save against, such as the stun effect of Push and Wave, or the effects of Insanity. Another highly overlooked power is the plague line. I played through the game with a darkside consular, and even I couldn't crack Malak's shell with my ridiculously high Wisdom. Then I remembered "Oh yeah, plague!"....I had only picked that line because I had nothing else to go with. Plague is irresistable, even by Malak, because it has a DC of 100. Since my wisdom wasn't as high as his, I lowered his with plague. Right afterward I had him choking on a veritable boner of force energy while I gave him a jump start with a good round of force storm. Can you say "owned"?

[UserUnfriendly]

[QUOTE=Koreforce]Yeah, both Wisdom and Charisma add a modifier to the number of FP you get per level. If you are planning on using force powers almost exculsively, make them both even at the character creation, and add your attributes to Wisdom. Wisdom makes all of your offensive force powers harder to save against, such as the stun effect of Push and Wave, or the effects of Insanity. Another highly overlooked power is the plague line. I played through the game with a darkside consular, and even I couldn't crack Malak's shell with my ridiculously high Wisdom. Then I remembered "Oh yeah, plague!"....I had only picked that line because I had nothing else to go with. Plague is irresistable, even by Malak, because it has a DC of 100. Since my wisdom wasn't as high as his, I lowered his with plague. Right afterward I had him choking on a veritable boner of force energy while I gave him a jump start with a good round of force storm. Can you say "owned"?[/QUOTE]

plague is rediculously useful against high level characters...

did you try force breaching him first? that might have been the problem...

think of plague as opposite of force valor..

[Narfblat]

Wisdom and Charisma have the same effect on your ability to use powers, but charisma doesn't help saves against your enemy's force powers.

For all saves, a random number is picked from 1 to 20. This random number plus the save level* must be equal or greater than the DC** of the saving throw to result in a save. Saves reduce or cancel the effect.
*save level=Base save level plus save modifier. The base save level for each save type is determined by the character's class and level. Save modifier is equal to the attribute modifier*** that effects save type. (constitution for fortitude, wisdom for will, or dexterity for reflex)
**DC for each weapons is always the same. A Thermal detonator always has a reflex save at a DC of 15. Force powers have a number(usually 5) plus your character level plus your Wisdom and Charisma modifiers***
***All attributes produce modifiers for different things in the game. These modifiers can be found by this formula: Attribute level minus 10 then divided by 2. Modifiers are rounded down, so 15's modifier of 2.5 becomes 2.

Example: Narfblat is a level 20 jedi guardian with 17 constitution, 14 wisdom, 10 dexterity, and 10 charisma. Narfblat's attribute modifiers are 3(const), 2(wisdom) and 0(dexterity and charisma). Because he's a level 20 guardian, Narfblat's base saves are 12(fortitude), 9(will), and 12(reflex). These base saves plus the attribute modifiers result in save levels of 15(fortitude), 11(will), and 12(reflex). The DC of stasis field done by narfblat is 5(this varies by force power)+20(character level)+2(wisdom modifier)+0(charisma modifier), which results in 27. Mr. Enemy has a fortitude save level of 12. If the random number(chosen from 1 to 20) is 15 or above, Mr. Enemy will save himself from stun(12+15=27), but will be slowed down(the effect is reduced, not cancelled)

[UserUnfriendly]

[QUOTE=Narfblat]Wisdom and Charisma have the same effect on your ability to use powers, but charisma doesn't help saves against your enemy's force powers.

For all saves, a random number is picked from 1 to 20. This random number plus the save level* must be equal or greater than the DC** of the saving throw to result in a save. Saves reduce or cancel the effect.
*save level=Base save level plus save modifier. The base save level for each save type is determined by the character's class and level. Save modifier is equal to the attribute modifier*** that effects save type. (constitution for fortitude, wisdom for will, or dexterity for reflex)
**DC for each weapons is always the same. A Thermal detonator always has a reflex save at a DC of 15. Force powers have a number(usually 5) plus your character level plus your Wisdom and Charisma modifiers***
***All attributes produce modifiers for different things in the game. These modifiers can be found by this formula: Attribute level minus 10 then divided by 2. Modifiers are rounded down, so 15's modifier of 2.5 becomes 2.

Example: Narfblat is a level 20 jedi guardian with 17 constitution, 14 wisdom, 10 dexterity, and 10 charisma. Narfblat's attribute modifiers are 3(const), 2(wisdom) and 0(dexterity and charisma). Because he's a level 20 guardian, Narfblat's base saves are 12(fortitude), 9(will), and 12(reflex). These base saves plus the attribute modifiers result in save levels of 15(fortitude), 11(will), and 12(reflex). The DC of stasis field done by narfblat is 5(this varies by force power)+20(character level)+2(wisdom modifier)+0(charisma modifier), which results in 27. Mr. Enemy has a fortitude save level of 12. If the random number(chosen from 1 to 20) is 15 or above, Mr. Enemy will save himself from stun(12+15=27), but will be slowed down(the effect is reduced, not cancelled)[/QUOTE]

I SEE!!!!!!!!!!

ok, that's why both charisma and wisdom affect force powers, but wisdom is the crucial one for both offensive and defensive !!!

can some kind moderator pin this please???

so the higher wisdom makes your force powers stronger and affects defensive will saves....

[Narfblat]

The wisdom-based modifier is also added to three skills: awareness, security, and treat injury.
The charisma-based modifier is only added to your persuade skill.

The manual that came with the game somewhat explains these things, but in confusing order.

[Koreforce]

Charisma also adds modifiers to the number of force points per level. I like to raise Wisdom to 15 at character creation (SF Robes WIS +5), and keep Charisma ar 14, which is good early in the game with a level 1 persuade, making almost the entire persuade part of Taris possible, even if it takes multiple tries to persuade Matrik or Dia to open up about their little problems. Then I just save Skill Points for when Persuade becomes a Class Skill, and raise that so I can *SPOILER:* persuade Bastila to return to the Light Side, and still have enough physical power to cut her apart in straight-up saber combat.

[Narfblat]

I was just going by the manual. I don't think it mentions Charisma effecting force points per level(it does mention wisdom though).

[Jack Dell]

just try and save skill points for when you become a jedi so you can place them in treat injury and persuade both. If youre doing a scoundrel 2, consular or whatever 18 its going to be harder because you will have relatively low levels. Still Wisdom is definately a lot more useful than charisma, no doubt. If you can place a point for persuade every level, you should never ever have any problems convincing people if the attempt is doable. And really there isn't much difference, you get an extra point to persuade every 2 extra points to charisma, its nearly useless. I'd rather get those points in my will save if the advantages for charisma and wisdom are the same. Really there isn't much to it, either getting the same advantages plus points to treat injury and will save, or only just persuade.

[JediKt]

I never Levelled my initial character up past Level 5. Makes the final fight in the arena a little more difficult, but lets you get a couple more levels after you become a Jedi.

[UserUnfriendly]

[QUOTE=JediKt]I never Levelled my initial character up past Level 5. Makes the final fight in the arena a little more difficult, but lets you get a couple more levels after you become a Jedi.[/QUOTE]

4 scoundrel...meh...its hard, i use a lot of grenades, even bought some concussion grenades for bendek, but i cheat a lot too...

[Jack Dell]

with concussion grenades and a decent dex you can kill bendak at lvl 2. Just stun him and shoot him and you should have no problems. If you are a soldier, then instead hit him with a melee weapon but always back away every two rounds and give him another. Whatever you use, if you are careful it should be too much trouble. If you want an extra punch and youve got frag grenades to spare just go concussion, frag, frag, concussion, frag, frag and he'll never be able to move. No need to use plasma grenades and all that, but if you want itll make things faster.

[UserUnfriendly]

[QUOTE=Jack Dell]with concussion grenades and a decent dex you can kill bendak at lvl 2. Just stun him and shoot him and you should have no problems. If you are a soldier, then instead hit him with a melee weapon but always back away every two rounds and give him another. Whatever you use, if you are careful it should be too much trouble. If you want an extra punch and youve got frag grenades to spare just go concussion, frag, frag, concussion, frag, frag and he'll never be able to move. No need to use plasma grenades and all that, but if you want itll make things faster.[/QUOTE]

bendek and twitch are no problems...they like to open up with ranged weapons, which makes them suckers for a concussion grenade attack...marl is the real annoyance, since my scoundrel at 3 has little defenses and worse fighting ability...marl comes at you with a melee weapon, so using grenades gets iffy unless you use the circle of death...keep circling him, tossing grenades...like mechwarrior, but naughtier..

[UserUnfriendly]

soon trying a new build, in which EVERYTHING is expendable except pure utter fighting power...cheating in a bunch of defenses, so defenses are not an issue, also will be using energy shields and cheated in master scoundrel luck...

but should be more powerful than any thing...a full 20 in str and wis...