A clear answer for Dual wielding

Krian · Post by **Krian** » Sun Oct 10, 2004 4:10 am

Hi, I saw other threads about dual wielding, but none were clear IMO. I am using a Ranger with 16 dex and 2 long swords (I'm at the begining) she is wearing studded leather so I SHOULD be able to have 2 weapon wielding and ambidexterity automaticaly right? But it seems that wielding 2 longswords makes me miss a lot or is it me?

Do I have to put a shortsword in my off hand to balance it better?

Thanks

me0w · Post by **me0w** » Sun Oct 10, 2004 4:18 am

"Do I have to put a shortsword in my off hand to balance it better?"

I don't think the game is that sophisticated, if your more proficient in short swords that long swords, then I'm sure it will help, if not, no.

- generaly dual weilding makes your character miss more, this is mainly because your swinging more, but above that, untill you get to a fairly high level you won't be the greatest swordsman, and dual weilding is much harder, so its expected.

Krian · Post by **Krian** » Sun Oct 10, 2004 4:23 am

Thanks mate, I'll use 2 long swords and that's it

Wrath-Of-Egg · Post by **Wrath-Of-Egg** » Sun Oct 10, 2004 4:24 am

when your number of attacks looks like this

4+1 or 5

4+1 is better due of your last attack wich is done by your offhand and that has quite high attack roll on it.. so it will hit

But then in 5 attack last attack will miss.. unless you are realy lucky..

+Dual wielding looks cool..

Vanion · Post by **Vanion** » Sun Oct 10, 2004 5:22 am

In general, dual wielding looks cool but is underpowered until you get into HoF, where apparently very few creatures will miss your characters, even with insanely good AC.

With all of the dual wielding feats, with most weapons in the off hand you'll have a -4 penalty to attack with ALL attacks. If you've only got 16-18 strength, that means you're basically rolling a d20 vs your opponent's armour class..against a 15 AC foe, that's a %25 chance to hit Against an 18 AC foe, that's %10 (ie only on critical hits with a longsword).

With a light weapon in the off hand (short sword, dagger), this becomes a -2 penalty. Maces and hand axes shouldn't give a -4 penalty to attack since they fall under the "small" size category, but from my experience they will do exactly that - perhaps that has been fixed in a patch, though.

My advice to you is that if you do dual wield early on, use a light weapon in the off hand. When your BAB gets good, your casters can buff you with Bull's Strength (or cat's grace if you use weapon finesse) and you hit foes regularly, consider a beefier weapon in the off hand. You only get one attack with that off hand weapon after level 9 (as opposed to 2 under full DnD rules) though, so consider the benefits of a shield which gives 2+ AC at the cost of no feats.

Later in the game, with weapons such as Belib's Everlasting Torch and the Holy Avenger, dual wielding quite simply becomes something to marvel at, especially if you combine it with haste.

For pure damage and effectiveness, you can't go past 2 handed weapons and high strength. When your warrior has 18 Strength, you're rather devastating, when your warrior is fully buffed in later stages, he is quite simply walking death.

Wrath-Of-Egg · Post by **Wrath-Of-Egg** » Sun Oct 10, 2004 5:29 am

And if that fighter has few bard/sorc/wizard levels so that he/she can get mirror image... well then you warrior can take few hits more..

Krian · Post by **Krian** » Sun Oct 10, 2004 6:14 am

Thanks a bunch guys

But my Ranger has strength 14, I guess I'll have to make do

Wrath-Of-Egg · Post by **Wrath-Of-Egg** » Sun Oct 10, 2004 6:34 am

in normal you can buy belt that boost your streght by 4... and in HoF there is belt that boost your strengh't by 6.. these can be bought from kuldahar..

Krian · Post by **Krian** » Sun Oct 10, 2004 6:55 am

cool thx, like these gauntlets that raise your strength to 18/00 in Icewind dale 1

Wrath-Of-Egg · Post by **Wrath-Of-Egg** » Sun Oct 10, 2004 7:16 am

yes.. something like that..

Heidrek · Post by **Heidrek** » Sun Oct 10, 2004 2:01 pm

Dual Wielding is still pretty good. I'd definitely reccomend it for your ranger in the early game. The Extra attack is very useful. Use a Short sword or dagger in you off hand, it will make a big difference. Once your BAB gets higher it won't matter too much and you can change to Dual Wieling Bastard Swords etc.

I'd also recommend Rapid Shot. This will give ou an extra Ranged attack with a non crossbow missile weapon and means that you can get 2 attacks per round at either missile or melee range.

Vanion · Post by **Vanion** » Sun Oct 10, 2004 7:34 pm

I found archery useful at times, but never really focused on it. It was far more effective in 2e when a hit would definitely disrupt a spellcaster, but with concentration being every spellslinger's best friend, it's not as worthwhile to have all of your party members sporting bows at the outset of a battle. Most of the early levels, just having your mages use bows or crossbows to keep out of the front lines and letting warriors, priests and rogues mix it up in melee works well enough, so long as you use plenty of crowd control and don't get caught out of position. At higher levels, sneak attack and rapid shot just doesn't compare to spellcasting power, especially when you're taking on mages and priests with 20+ concentration.

Heidrek · Post by **Heidrek** » Sun Oct 10, 2004 8:06 pm

I agree about the interuption vaule of missile fire in IWD2, especially in HoF mode, but that's not why I recommend Rapid Shot.

Having a Full party of characters armed with bow, sling or thrown weapons and Rapid Shot can mean that an opponent never makes it to melee range and if they do they are as good as dead by the time they get there. 6 characters all firing 4 or more times per round, two shots of which are at max BaB -2 means that you can unleash an absolute hail of weapons at an approaching enemy.

Also, each hit stuns an enemny for a split second and multiple hits can significantly slow their approach. In the early game I found this Feat invaluable, have thew party focus it's collective sights on an approaching Orc and nail it, then weaken another before it can close to melee. Using ranged attacks gives you a little more flexibuility with your warriors too. My two tanks have Throwing Hammers of Thunder +2 and those towershields that give +4 vs missile fire. As soon as an enemy is sighted the team unleashes a volley of missiles, then if more enemies turn up, the arcane casters crank up the power. Everyone else peppers the approaching enemies to slow the approach while the spells resolve. Once in melee range though, my sorc. and wizard revert to archery as a defualt action. If I need to I'll Symbol etc. but if not it's arrow time.

Vanion · Post by **Vanion** » Sun Oct 10, 2004 8:15 pm

Hmm...I'll have to try that out. I usually tend to make tanks with pretty good dexterity anyway for the light armours on offer and reflex saves (frickin webs...grrrr) so it can't hurt to see how that tactic works out. Don't know if I'll spend the feats early on, but it definitely seems interesting.

Heidrek · Post by **Heidrek** » Sun Oct 10, 2004 9:30 pm

I found missile combat to be especially useful in the early game. Even a level 1 wizard can have a pretty decent chance of hitting with a sling as long as they have a decent Dex. and Rapid shot gives you 2 attacks per turn instead of the 1 per turn from melee at low levels. Getting a decent ranged weapon for each of my characters is high on my list of priorities. Even Heavy Crossbows are a good idea for spell casters who want to stay out of combat at low levels. They pack a real punch and have a good chance of hitting.

The other advantage of a ranged attack party is that you can really take advantage of Web, Entangle and Grease spells without hampering yourself. In the goblin warrens in chapter 1 there is a room full of sleeping goblins. I would never have cleared this on Insane difficulty without the Web/Ranged weapons combination, plus of course Flaming Oils, the poor mans fireball!

Essentially Rapid Shot gives your weaker fighting characters a useful combat role once they run out of spells or can't cast them without furting the party.

I like it anyway, IMHO one of the best Feats available.

silverdragon72 · Post by **silverdragon72** » Thu Oct 14, 2004 6:03 am

.

there is one major advantage for dual-wielding missing so far:

...there are some secondary weapons with great magical effects, but absolutely no really useful shield available in IWD2 !

.

Vanion · Post by **Vanion** » Thu Oct 14, 2004 8:11 pm

True...+X Spell resistance or the Golden Heart of [charname] as an off hander will serve you far better than a measly +5 to AC.

Heidrek · Post by **Heidrek** » Thu Oct 14, 2004 8:49 pm

The other good thing about Dual Weilding is that you can get 5 attacks per round, 2 of which are at your highest BaB -2 (or-4). Using Sword and Shield or two handed weapons allows you a max of 4 attacks per round unless hasted or the weapon gives you an extra attack.

Dual weilding means you will probably hit one extra time per round compared to single weapons. Any extra attacks you get from Haste or weapons abilities are at BaB of 0, so are unlikely to hit.

This is not to say 2 weapons are better than a 2-hander, with high strength the 2 handed option is probably better because of the 1.5 * str bonus rule. It really works best on Bards and rogues who have less strength than tanks. Dual weilding lets them be on par in combat but in a different way. The static bonuses you get from some weapons like Golden Heart etc. are a tasty bonus!