How hard is it to play a Paladin? (Some Forgotten Realms insertions as well.)
I often ask myself this question, after hearing some complaints from P&P players and with the game that I moderate on GameBanshee, The Temple of Elemental Evil.
1) The Major disadvantages for Core D&D Paladins seem to be:
- They normally can't multi-class without losing the ability to advance in the Paladin class from that point on.
- They become Fallen Paladins if they don't take their acts into very careful consideration. This may also lead to some strong typecasting of their personality if a DM isn't looking to make a Fallen Paladin (perhaps one that attones somewhere along the line) a part of a campaign.
2) Others that are familiar with Forgotten Realms setting may notice the advantages that Paladins may have over Core D&D versions. For instance:
- Paladins belonging to a certain deity can freely multi-class to certain (prestige) classes, such as a Paladin of Tyr being able to freely multi-class as Fighters, Clerics, and Divine Champions, and could have a Paladin lvl. 15/ Fighter lvl. 5.
- More deities sponsor Paladins, including numerous Lawful Neutral and Neutral Good deities, and even one Chaotic Good deity! Still, newer deities are being added now again to Core D&D from certain new campaign materials, but what I'm posting is referring to the main deities of both settings.
3) In novels/stories fpr both settings, you don't see many Paladins as protagonists or highly featured characters. In Core D&D, Alehandra comes the closest to that, while Piergeron Paladinson (which I'll be glad if I see a novel/story about him or a Paladin) is the closest in the Forgotten Realms.
What can be said for these righteous warriors?
How hard is it to play a Paladin? (Some Forgotten Realms and insertions as well.)
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Galuf the Dwarf
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How hard is it to play a Paladin? (Some Forgotten Realms and insertions as well.)
Dungeon Crawl Inc.: It's the most fun you can have without 3 midgets and a whip! Character stats made by your's truly!
Very few people can play a lawful good paladin because their party wont allow it, most paladins are neutral/chaotic good, because they dont put themselves and their team in danger to save innocent lives all the time, and they still get rewarded for their deeds because unless you have a paladin team someone is bound to ask for a reward.
I always saw paladins to be undrerdogs of the DND world, their not as good in melle as a fighter because they lack feats, they cant even hope to match a clerics ability to cast spells, and while they get some nice minor innate abilities they dont make up for his worst flaw so far, his need for practicaly every single stat to be high, where a cleric can drop charisma if he dosent want to turn undead, a paladin cant because its tied in with his abilities, he cant drop wisdom if he wants to even think of casting some spells, he needs some inteligence because he needs to make up for his crappy skill points/level, he needs consitiution because hes a fighter after all, he dosent need a whole load of dexterity but it dosent hurt, most paladins wont find themselves in plate mail at level 1, and he needs strenght which is obvious.
Fighters for example dont need any other stats besides strenght/dexterity/constitution to be effective at what they do, a paladin needs at least wisdom and charisma on top of that.
Even though they have huge setbacks IMO, a paladin is very good to have in a party for roleplay ( as opposed to roll play ) reasons, most people will treat your party more respectfully if you have a paladin with you, and if you DM factors that in. In short i see the paladin as a roleplay character, much like the bard, so if you'r DM has the tendancy to dish out nasty fights it might be better to take a fighter or a cleric instead. On the other hand if he gives experiance to those who role play, follow their alignment and moral codes, the paladin will become a lot more powerfull in the end in the right hands.
Just my thaughts on things...
I always saw paladins to be undrerdogs of the DND world, their not as good in melle as a fighter because they lack feats, they cant even hope to match a clerics ability to cast spells, and while they get some nice minor innate abilities they dont make up for his worst flaw so far, his need for practicaly every single stat to be high, where a cleric can drop charisma if he dosent want to turn undead, a paladin cant because its tied in with his abilities, he cant drop wisdom if he wants to even think of casting some spells, he needs some inteligence because he needs to make up for his crappy skill points/level, he needs consitiution because hes a fighter after all, he dosent need a whole load of dexterity but it dosent hurt, most paladins wont find themselves in plate mail at level 1, and he needs strenght which is obvious.
Fighters for example dont need any other stats besides strenght/dexterity/constitution to be effective at what they do, a paladin needs at least wisdom and charisma on top of that.
Even though they have huge setbacks IMO, a paladin is very good to have in a party for roleplay ( as opposed to roll play ) reasons, most people will treat your party more respectfully if you have a paladin with you, and if you DM factors that in. In short i see the paladin as a roleplay character, much like the bard, so if you'r DM has the tendancy to dish out nasty fights it might be better to take a fighter or a cleric instead. On the other hand if he gives experiance to those who role play, follow their alignment and moral codes, the paladin will become a lot more powerfull in the end in the right hands.
Just my thaughts on things...
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Rob-hin
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I strongly disagree. Paladins is one oth the strongest classes available.
With a high charisma he gets high bonusses on all his saving throws. A friend of mine didn't fail al single saving throw in a loooong campain.
Next to that he obviously needs a high strengh en constitution. He doesn't need a high dexterity since a full plate hardly allowes a dex bonus to AC.
Then, he needs a high wisdom, but not super high as he has a limited level of spells. So be basicly needs a 14 or so.
He isn't as good a fighter as a fighter indeed, but keep into account his bonusses. One feat (forgot the name) allows a paladin to do additional 2d6 damage per hit for 10 rounds. Sounds good doesn't it?
It's correct that a paladin can no longer level up as a paladin if he takes up another class. But rules are ment to be broken.
As a house rule, we deleted that rule. Sthat said, a paladin can easily take up other classes such as prestige classes. A great axample is a dwarven paladin (setback is the cha penalty, lowering the extra saving throw bonusses) and adding the dwarven defender prestige class.
Roleplayingwise, a paladin is a challange rather then a difficulty.
A paladinc can ONLY be lawfull good.
The challange is to come up with creative sollutions which satisfy you as a player, the other characters and the deity of the palladin. Smae goed is you are a druid though, so this is not paladins alone.
If a paladin does become fallen, this is not the end of things. It could be the beginning of a very interessting sub-quest for the paladin to redeam himself. We did this once with a cleric.
With a high charisma he gets high bonusses on all his saving throws. A friend of mine didn't fail al single saving throw in a loooong campain.
Next to that he obviously needs a high strengh en constitution. He doesn't need a high dexterity since a full plate hardly allowes a dex bonus to AC.
Then, he needs a high wisdom, but not super high as he has a limited level of spells. So be basicly needs a 14 or so.
He isn't as good a fighter as a fighter indeed, but keep into account his bonusses. One feat (forgot the name) allows a paladin to do additional 2d6 damage per hit for 10 rounds. Sounds good doesn't it?
It's correct that a paladin can no longer level up as a paladin if he takes up another class. But rules are ment to be broken.
As a house rule, we deleted that rule. Sthat said, a paladin can easily take up other classes such as prestige classes. A great axample is a dwarven paladin (setback is the cha penalty, lowering the extra saving throw bonusses) and adding the dwarven defender prestige class.Roleplayingwise, a paladin is a challange rather then a difficulty.
Volk: Very few people can play a lawful good paladin because their party wont allow it, most paladins are neutral/chaotic good, because they dont put ... etc
A paladinc can ONLY be lawfull good.
The challange is to come up with creative sollutions which satisfy you as a player, the other characters and the deity of the palladin. Smae goed is you are a druid though, so this is not paladins alone.
If a paladin does become fallen, this is not the end of things. It could be the beginning of a very interessting sub-quest for the paladin to redeam himself. We did this once with a cleric.
Guinness is good for you.
Gives you strength.
Gives you strength.
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The Great Hairy
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This really depends on two things - the GM and the players.
The person playing the paladin must understand that the paladin, as a concept, has to follow laws and rules. I have a two page list of general chivalric laws which I say (if I am GMing) "here are the laws you have to stick to - in general". These laws can be broken for numerous reasons (generally roleplaying stuff) but will require attonements.
In my view, a paladin will never go the "ends justify the means" route. And the needs of the one versus the needs of the many just get real messy real quick, too.
In the current game I am running, the leader of the group is a Paladin. Most of the rest of the group are LG or CG, with a single CN (the thief/wizard/spymaster). The player running the paladin does a very good job of balancing game-world requirements and inter-PC wrangling to come out both ahead of the thief and yet remain true to her alignment. The game setting is a Lawful Evil empire, and yet she still manages to protect the innocent, uphold the law and dispense justice and compassion wherever she can. It's not just being the front-person for a LG aligned god, it's also having a character which is playable.
(A bit rambly, I know. Sorry all!)
Cheers,
TGHO
The person playing the paladin must understand that the paladin, as a concept, has to follow laws and rules. I have a two page list of general chivalric laws which I say (if I am GMing) "here are the laws you have to stick to - in general". These laws can be broken for numerous reasons (generally roleplaying stuff) but will require attonements.
In my view, a paladin will never go the "ends justify the means" route. And the needs of the one versus the needs of the many just get real messy real quick, too.
In the current game I am running, the leader of the group is a Paladin. Most of the rest of the group are LG or CG, with a single CN (the thief/wizard/spymaster). The player running the paladin does a very good job of balancing game-world requirements and inter-PC wrangling to come out both ahead of the thief and yet remain true to her alignment. The game setting is a Lawful Evil empire, and yet she still manages to protect the innocent, uphold the law and dispense justice and compassion wherever she can. It's not just being the front-person for a LG aligned god, it's also having a character which is playable.
(A bit rambly, I know. Sorry all!)
Cheers,
TGHO
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Galuf the Dwarf
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[QUOTE=The Great Hairy]This really depends on two things - the GM and the players.
The person playing the paladin must understand that the paladin, as a concept, has to follow laws and rules. I have a two page list of general chivalric laws which I say (if I am GMing) "here are the laws you have to stick to - in general". These laws can be broken for numerous reasons (generally roleplaying stuff) but will require attonements.
In my view, a paladin will never go the "ends justify the means" route. And the needs of the one versus the needs of the many just get real messy real quick, too.
In the current game I am running, the leader of the group is a Paladin. Most of the rest of the group are LG or CG, with a single CN (the thief/wizard/spymaster). The player running the paladin does a very good job of balancing game-world requirements and inter-PC wrangling to come out both ahead of the thief and yet remain true to her alignment. The game setting is a Lawful Evil empire, and yet she still manages to protect the innocent, uphold the law and dispense justice and compassion wherever she can. It's not just being the front-person for a LG aligned god, it's also having a character which is playable.
(A bit rambly, I know. Sorry all!)
Cheers,
TGHO[/QUOTE]
By GM, don't you mean Dungeon Master? I have a feeling GM means Game Master in this case, but this is all just for clarification. Anyhoo...
I can understand alot of what you say. The only thing I wonder if you really have a non-typecast Paladin. It sounds as if she goes a hint beyond the common image of the class, without going far enough to become fallen. Also, your post isn't too rambly at all, or otherwise Rob-hin's might be considered such as well. "It's all good," as they say.
Rob-hin: Believe it or not, my friend, but (Dwarven) Paladins of Moradin are permitted to freely multi-class as Dwarven Defenders in the Forgotten Realms. They also can multi-class as Fighters, Clerics, Runecasters, and (according to Player's Guide to Faerun) Hammers of Moradin (about as powerful as the Dwarven Defender, if not more). In short, you'd be following the rules just fine in a FR campaign! Long live the dwarven paladins!
The Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting and Player's Guide to Faerun all give the different prestige classes that paladins of different deity can freely multi-class as. FRCS also gives the free multi-class combos for certain monk orders.
I was thinking Paladins could be powerful. I was just wondering if the roleplay strengths of playing one surpassed, balanced, or underweighed their roleplay weakness. Yes, a fallen Paladin makes a great adventure hook (especially for an atonement quest or such), but I was wondering what interesting roleplay situations could be made for an unfallen Paladin. The Great Hairy has some interesting points in his post as well.
(For anyone) BTW, any interesting Forgotten Realms or D&D novels with Paladins playing major roles in them? Piergeron's appearance in Elminster in Hell doesn't count that much, because he only appears for a short while.
The person playing the paladin must understand that the paladin, as a concept, has to follow laws and rules. I have a two page list of general chivalric laws which I say (if I am GMing) "here are the laws you have to stick to - in general". These laws can be broken for numerous reasons (generally roleplaying stuff) but will require attonements.
In my view, a paladin will never go the "ends justify the means" route. And the needs of the one versus the needs of the many just get real messy real quick, too.
In the current game I am running, the leader of the group is a Paladin. Most of the rest of the group are LG or CG, with a single CN (the thief/wizard/spymaster). The player running the paladin does a very good job of balancing game-world requirements and inter-PC wrangling to come out both ahead of the thief and yet remain true to her alignment. The game setting is a Lawful Evil empire, and yet she still manages to protect the innocent, uphold the law and dispense justice and compassion wherever she can. It's not just being the front-person for a LG aligned god, it's also having a character which is playable.
(A bit rambly, I know. Sorry all!)
Cheers,
TGHO[/QUOTE]
By GM, don't you mean Dungeon Master? I have a feeling GM means Game Master in this case, but this is all just for clarification. Anyhoo...
I can understand alot of what you say. The only thing I wonder if you really have a non-typecast Paladin. It sounds as if she goes a hint beyond the common image of the class, without going far enough to become fallen. Also, your post isn't too rambly at all, or otherwise Rob-hin's might be considered such as well. "It's all good," as they say.
Rob-hin: Believe it or not, my friend, but (Dwarven) Paladins of Moradin are permitted to freely multi-class as Dwarven Defenders in the Forgotten Realms. They also can multi-class as Fighters, Clerics, Runecasters, and (according to Player's Guide to Faerun) Hammers of Moradin (about as powerful as the Dwarven Defender, if not more). In short, you'd be following the rules just fine in a FR campaign! Long live the dwarven paladins!
The Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting and Player's Guide to Faerun all give the different prestige classes that paladins of different deity can freely multi-class as. FRCS also gives the free multi-class combos for certain monk orders.
I was thinking Paladins could be powerful. I was just wondering if the roleplay strengths of playing one surpassed, balanced, or underweighed their roleplay weakness. Yes, a fallen Paladin makes a great adventure hook (especially for an atonement quest or such), but I was wondering what interesting roleplay situations could be made for an unfallen Paladin. The Great Hairy has some interesting points in his post as well.
(For anyone) BTW, any interesting Forgotten Realms or D&D novels with Paladins playing major roles in them? Piergeron's appearance in Elminster in Hell doesn't count that much, because he only appears for a short while.
Dungeon Crawl Inc.: It's the most fun you can have without 3 midgets and a whip! Character stats made by your's truly!
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Rob-hin
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[QUOTE=Galuf the Dwarf]
I was thinking Paladins could be powerful. I was just wondering if the roleplay strengths of playing one surpassed, balanced, or underweighed their roleplay weakness. Yes, a fallen Paladin makes a great adventure hook (especially for an atonement quest or such), but I was wondering what interesting roleplay situations could be made for an unfallen Paladin. The Great Hairy has some interesting points in his post as well.
[/QUOTE]
Our Dm came up with something interessting:
We ran into Skullcruchers Ogers, stronger and smarter ogers then normal ones. They are known for having normal ogers as slaves. paladin problem: Save the orgers, which themselves are evil? Do nothing?
Our paladin was sick that day, so it was no problem.
If I were a paladin, I'd kill em all.
I was thinking Paladins could be powerful. I was just wondering if the roleplay strengths of playing one surpassed, balanced, or underweighed their roleplay weakness. Yes, a fallen Paladin makes a great adventure hook (especially for an atonement quest or such), but I was wondering what interesting roleplay situations could be made for an unfallen Paladin. The Great Hairy has some interesting points in his post as well.
[/QUOTE]
Our Dm came up with something interessting:
We ran into Skullcruchers Ogers, stronger and smarter ogers then normal ones. They are known for having normal ogers as slaves. paladin problem: Save the orgers, which themselves are evil? Do nothing?
Our paladin was sick that day, so it was no problem.
If I were a paladin, I'd kill em all.
Guinness is good for you.
Gives you strength.
Gives you strength.
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The Great Hairy
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@Galuf
I'm very lucky with my game, all of the players have 15+ years of experience. And my mate playing the Paladin is really up on her game. There is a series of books she quite likes, where the main character is very paladinic, however it is not set in the DnD worlds. I can't remember the author, I'll chase her up tomorrow and ask her. In this world, the Paladin is certainly the holy knight, but definitely not the rigid fanatic that some people portray them as.
Yes, GM = Game Master. Since we run/play all sorts of games, not just DnD, my circle of friends just uses GM.
As for roleplaying, it's a huge mix of stuff. She recently became a Baron, and is now in charge of several thousand peasants and a small trading town. She (the player) is constantly sending me emails telling me of what she is doing to improve the lives of her charges.
@Rob-hin
Y'see, you've made the classic blunder in my opinion! A Paladin just can't kill everything "just because it's evil!". No. In that particular situation - what if the Paladin freed the ogres, and showed them kindness and compassion. Surely he/she could convince them that a different life, one of a Good path, is worth much more than their current evil ways. Even ogres, not naturally the smartest of beasts, could see that this person was being nice to them by freeing them.
Furthermore - killing a prisoner, regardless of the prisoners alignment is, IMO, an Evil act. I'd enforce some nasty punishment for that one!
Cheers,
TGHO
I'm very lucky with my game, all of the players have 15+ years of experience. And my mate playing the Paladin is really up on her game. There is a series of books she quite likes, where the main character is very paladinic, however it is not set in the DnD worlds. I can't remember the author, I'll chase her up tomorrow and ask her. In this world, the Paladin is certainly the holy knight, but definitely not the rigid fanatic that some people portray them as.
Yes, GM = Game Master. Since we run/play all sorts of games, not just DnD, my circle of friends just uses GM.
As for roleplaying, it's a huge mix of stuff. She recently became a Baron, and is now in charge of several thousand peasants and a small trading town. She (the player) is constantly sending me emails telling me of what she is doing to improve the lives of her charges.
@Rob-hin
Y'see, you've made the classic blunder in my opinion! A Paladin just can't kill everything "just because it's evil!". No. In that particular situation - what if the Paladin freed the ogres, and showed them kindness and compassion. Surely he/she could convince them that a different life, one of a Good path, is worth much more than their current evil ways. Even ogres, not naturally the smartest of beasts, could see that this person was being nice to them by freeing them.
Furthermore - killing a prisoner, regardless of the prisoners alignment is, IMO, an Evil act. I'd enforce some nasty punishment for that one!
Cheers,
TGHO
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Rob-hin
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Perhaps.
But classics always work fine in my book.
To be honoust, it all depends on what kind of paladin it is. Teaching vs cleansing of evil.
But killing prisoners is evil indeed. That's why it was a challange for our paladin. Fortunaltely for him, he was sick that session.
It also depends on which god the paladin follows. Only slight changes, but important none there less.
But classics always work fine in my book.
To be honoust, it all depends on what kind of paladin it is. Teaching vs cleansing of evil.
But killing prisoners is evil indeed. That's why it was a challange for our paladin. Fortunaltely for him, he was sick that session.
It also depends on which god the paladin follows. Only slight changes, but important none there less.
Guinness is good for you.
Gives you strength.
Gives you strength.
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The Great Hairy
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Aye, the god in question also is important, however that also affects the clerics within the game. The paladin is a follower of Merikka, the Goddess of the Family, Childbirth and Marriage, so her reactions to evil creatures tends to be "Oh, they must have come from a broken home!" and "Good parenting means good people." Quite different to a Paladin of Heironeous (the LG god of War and Chivalry).
Cheers,
TGHO
Cheers,
TGHO
I'm wearing Boots of Escaping! I'm wearing Boots of Escaping!
Just so you know..you don't HAVE to be a follower of any deity to be a Paladin. So gods don't always have to play a part in it..in this case it is about the Paladin's personal code instead of his religion's code.
And I don't see anything hard with being a Paladin at all..atleast from the roleplay area..as far as spells and such I tend to suck across the board with all casting classes.
And I don't see anything hard with being a Paladin at all..atleast from the roleplay area..as far as spells and such I tend to suck across the board with all casting classes.
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Galuf the Dwarf
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[QUOTE=Paranitis]Just so you know..you don't HAVE to be a follower of any deity to be a Paladin. So gods don't always have to play a part in it..in this case it is about the Paladin's personal code instead of his religion's code.
And I don't see anything hard with being a Paladin at all..atleast from the roleplay area..as far as spells and such I tend to suck across the board with all casting classes. [/QUOTE]
I though divine spellcasters (including Paladins and Rangers) needed to have a deity.
And I don't see anything hard with being a Paladin at all..atleast from the roleplay area..as far as spells and such I tend to suck across the board with all casting classes.
[/QUOTE]I though divine spellcasters (including Paladins and Rangers) needed to have a deity.
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The Great Hairy
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[QUOTE=Galuf the Dwarf]I though divine spellcasters (including Paladins and Rangers) needed to have a deity. [/QUOTE]
No, not really. They do have to justify where they get their spells from, but in many games it can be as nebulous as a concept - such as "Balance" or "Nature" or "Purity".
I played in a game where the Druid got her spells from the Four Elements, but the elements as concepts, not actual deity style thingies.
Cheers,
TGHO
[/QUOTE]No, not really. They do have to justify where they get their spells from, but in many games it can be as nebulous as a concept - such as "Balance" or "Nature" or "Purity".
I played in a game where the Druid got her spells from the Four Elements, but the elements as concepts, not actual deity style thingies.
Cheers,
TGHO
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Fiberfar
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My DM has banned The Paladin for some strange reason...... Don't know why.
When I ask, he mumbles something about to powerful.
When I ask, he mumbles something about to powerful.
[QUOTE=Luis Antonio]ONLY RETARDED PEOPLE WRITE WITH CAPS ON. Good thing I press shift [/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Luis Antonio]Bah! Bunch of lamers! Ye need the lesson of the true powergamer: Play mages, name them Koffi Annan, and only use non-intervention spells! Buwahahahahah![/QUOTE]
[/QUOTE][QUOTE=Luis Antonio]Bah! Bunch of lamers! Ye need the lesson of the true powergamer: Play mages, name them Koffi Annan, and only use non-intervention spells! Buwahahahahah![/QUOTE]
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Galuf the Dwarf
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[QUOTE=Fiberfar]My DM has banned The Paladin for some strange reason...... Don't know why.
When I ask, he mumbles something about to powerful.[/QUOTE]
Errr, can we talk about this? If you could read my PM to you, I'd appreciate it.
BTW, Hairy, please check your PM if you haven't yet.
When I ask, he mumbles something about to powerful.[/QUOTE]
Errr, can we talk about this? If you could read my PM to you, I'd appreciate it.
BTW, Hairy, please check your PM if you haven't yet.
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The Great Hairy
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The Great Hairy
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Not very powerful?? Are you kidding?
Sure, the Paladin can't blast the battlefield with Meteor Storm or the like, but in a toe-to-toe fight with the evil baddie, the Paladin is going to wipe the floor with most other classes.
Remember that in 3rd Ed one of the core design goals was to make every class:
a) balanced,
b) viable throughout all levels,
c) worth playing for their own reasons, and
d) powerful in their own speciality.
Note that a 1st level Paladin can easily end up with better saves than any other class. And that is just one of their advantages.
Cheers,
TGHO
Sure, the Paladin can't blast the battlefield with Meteor Storm or the like, but in a toe-to-toe fight with the evil baddie, the Paladin is going to wipe the floor with most other classes.
Remember that in 3rd Ed one of the core design goals was to make every class:
a) balanced,
b) viable throughout all levels,
c) worth playing for their own reasons, and
d) powerful in their own speciality.
Note that a 1st level Paladin can easily end up with better saves than any other class. And that is just one of their advantages.
Cheers,
TGHO
I'm wearing Boots of Escaping! I'm wearing Boots of Escaping!
A Paladin with good stat rolls sure, one whos highest stat is 16....maybe not, he has to chose betwen strenght or charisma, cant get any save bonuses unless you have a positive charisma and if your charisma mod is +1 then it makes absolutely no differance.
A fighter is stronger in melle, because he has the same HD, dosent have to worry about inteligence, charisma or a wisdom higher then 10, he gets a HUGE ammount of feats plus bonus fighter only feats, like weapon specialisation.
Clerics can turn undead at much higher levels, need a lot less stats and have more then double the ammount of spells paladins do.
Yes a paladin with good stats will beat any class at fighting evil, thats what their designed to do, but in the end a paladin is nothing more then the fighter side of a bard, he has a lot of options, but he cant do anything well enough.
Clearly if you use house rules, or books other then the 3rd edition PHB, DMG and Monster Manual then the paladins usefulness can be increased, but straight out 3rd edition paladins are most certanly not that powerfull, because as i said before, their need for high stats will cause them to have a tragic flaw, be it their lack of AC ( like i said no paladin starts the game at level 1 in full plate mail and you if you are then your DM is beeing too nice to your party or planing to have you go up against very hard monsters ) lack of good Hitpoints, or lack of bonus saves due to a low charisma, sure if the DM lets you sit there and roll six or seven times for each stat and then takes the best one you can make a paladin thats unstopable, but in the end for those who play with one roll for each stat, and take stats as low as three, paladins arent so viable anymore.
A fighter is stronger in melle, because he has the same HD, dosent have to worry about inteligence, charisma or a wisdom higher then 10, he gets a HUGE ammount of feats plus bonus fighter only feats, like weapon specialisation.
Clerics can turn undead at much higher levels, need a lot less stats and have more then double the ammount of spells paladins do.
Yes a paladin with good stats will beat any class at fighting evil, thats what their designed to do, but in the end a paladin is nothing more then the fighter side of a bard, he has a lot of options, but he cant do anything well enough.
Clearly if you use house rules, or books other then the 3rd edition PHB, DMG and Monster Manual then the paladins usefulness can be increased, but straight out 3rd edition paladins are most certanly not that powerfull, because as i said before, their need for high stats will cause them to have a tragic flaw, be it their lack of AC ( like i said no paladin starts the game at level 1 in full plate mail and you if you are then your DM is beeing too nice to your party or planing to have you go up against very hard monsters ) lack of good Hitpoints, or lack of bonus saves due to a low charisma, sure if the DM lets you sit there and roll six or seven times for each stat and then takes the best one you can make a paladin thats unstopable, but in the end for those who play with one roll for each stat, and take stats as low as three, paladins arent so viable anymore.