Cleric/Thief, what's to like?

Coot · Post by **Coot** » Sun Oct 24, 2004 2:32 am

I've posted this question at the BG forum as well, but I'd like to get some reactions on the SoA thread as well.

I did a search on Cleric/Thieves, but I can't find too much info on them.

Definite disadvantages seem to be:
- one weaponslot. I'd like to backstab (clubs and staffs), but I wouldn't want to melee too much. Changing weapons means you have to go to the inventory screen all the time.
- The thieving button is set behind the special ability button. Quite annoying, because you'll use it a lot.

Advantages:
- Although this pc will have a lot of different abilities, he won't be all powerful because he lacks melee and magical punch.
- C/T will provide a somewhat different game experience.

Who has taken a C/T through SoA, or even better, through SoA and ToB? Were you successful in effectively combining cleric and thieving abilities? What stronghold did you get? Any other thoughts?

Thrain · Post by **Thrain** » Sun Oct 24, 2004 1:26 pm

cleric/thieves are quite powerful characters. unless im mistaken, they can backstab out of sanctuary, which is highly useful. and the one weapon slot is not a proble, or at least shouldn't be. the only time it is is when you use a ranged weapon (which you should really). however, all the priest spells which make cleric good tanks also apply here.

Klorox · Post by **Klorox** » Sun Oct 24, 2004 3:26 pm

The main advantage (IMO) to a Cleric/Thief is that the character eliminates the need to bring along a Cleric NPC, most of which I find annoying.

Also, if you don't like Jan, you have a thief who will be gaining levels throughout ToB.

themoot · Post by **themoot** » Sun Oct 24, 2004 7:10 pm

The reason why I like Cleric/thieves is that they combine two classes that peak about level 14, which is where a Cleric/thief will end up at the end of SOA. There is no real reason to have a thief that is higher level than 13, unless you have an assasin, or want to set traps and backstab. By level 13 a thief can open any traps, backstab well or set traps well, just not both. Clerics get level 7 spells at level 14. A level 21 cleric gets one extra lvl. 7 spell, and only three extra lvl 1-4 spells. He really takes a hit in lvls 5-6, but it is worth it for the thief abilities. It eliminates the need to have jan or imoen in the game, and provides clerical magic as well. I usually don't use that many cleric spells, unless I'm in a special situation where one is required. Then I only need one copy of the spell.

stramoski · Post by **stramoski** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 12:04 am

Sorry... I missed something

Themoot mentioned this problem, but not a solution: I tried creating a Cleric/Thief, and couldn't use my theiving abilities. How do you get aroung this?

I'll feel stupid if it's just one of the function keys, but I'd feel dumber if I never learn...

Thanks

Grandpa · Post by **Grandpa** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 12:50 am

A cleric/thief can have very powerful attacks.

Holy Power+Righteous Magic+Draw Upon Holy Might is a good combo. Their only disadvantage is their number of attacks (Fighter/Cleric/Thief would be very powerful, as would a Shadowkeep'd C/T having more than 1 attack), that's all I can think of, and this becomes meaningless in ToB. I'd pick up some Assassination HLAs and use a staff of striking at high levels (with the rest going into Energy Blades), and a flail/sling at low levels with a shield. C/T have the godlike ability of Timestopping and using Harm twice to kill off an opponent, and a straight fighter could never take on someone using magic. Tough early on, easy later.

@stram: were you using plate mail? C/T has no problem casting spells and thieving in studded armor or less.

lompo · Post by **lompo** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 1:19 am

In BG2 you should have two weapon slot like all the classes, thus eliminating the annoying fact to have to change weapons every time (as happen in BG1).

nephtu · Post by **nephtu** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:04 am

My guess...

[QUOTE=stramoski]Themoot mentioned this problem, but not a solution: I tried creating a Cleric/Thief, and couldn't use my theiving abilities. How do you get aroung this?

I'll feel stupid if it's just one of the function keys, but I'd feel dumber if I never learn...

Thanks[/QUOTE]

Are you wearing plate armour? Remember, cleric/thieves can wear plate armour, but they can't use their thiefly skills while doing so.

Fwiw, cleric/thief has always struck me as a problematic combo.

themoot · Post by **themoot** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:02 am

What is problematic? With one character you eliminate the need to have a thief and a cleric. Look at this example. In one party you could have jan and amonen or Viconia. In another party you could have a cleric/thief and a straight mage. Which party will be more powerful? The Cleric/thief party, because jan doesn't get seventh or eighth level spells(no ruby ray), while the cleric/thief gives up only in the number of spells cast. A cleric/thief can cast any spell that a cleric can.

Coot · Post by **Coot** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 12:04 pm

[QUOTE=stramoski]Themoot mentioned this problem, but not a solution: I tried creating a Cleric/Thief, and couldn't use my theiving abilities. How do you get aroung this?[/QUOTE]The thieving button is behind the special abilities button.

Phantom Lord · Post by **Phantom Lord** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 12:46 pm

I've played a Half Orc C/T half through SoA (my hard disc crashed during the Undermountain part).

It's a good class, because cleric spells combine pretty well with thieving skills and the abilities to backstab and turn undead, plus UAI later in the game come heavily into play.

The real advantage is that you can have a 3 character party including a single class wizard (Edwin) and a single class fighter (Korgan, probably) in it. And this party levels up at a rate that almost unbalances the game ... so make sure you have ToB installed before you start the game (no HLA in the SoA part otherwise).

stramoski · Post by **stramoski** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 5:27 pm

Ok

Thanks Coot! I'm restarting without Yoshi, Aerie, Anomen, and Virconia!!!

I can pickpocket!!!

Thanks also to Nephtu, that was my other problem...

Bruce Lee · Post by **Bruce Lee** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:33 pm

This is a great character but no backstabbing out of sanctuary, but you can cast it and then run and hide. In ToB this character truly shines, so many possibilities. Time trap and harm for instance hehe. Plus with UAI you actually become close the ultimate character, fighter/mage/thief/cleric.
I think this is one the more entertaining classes to play. I picked gnome cause it seemed to fit but half-orc may be a better choice.

nephtu · Post by **nephtu** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 9:27 am

Well, it's this way

The following things have always struck me as problematic about cleric/thieves - the restricted weapons choices - really, clubs and staves are about it - and the relatively poor fit of spells.

It seems to me that cleric spells fit the Fighter/cleric (or ranger/cleric) so much better IMAO, and mage/thief is also a better spell-ability fit. The cheesy potential of cleric/mage is well documented, especially at higher levels. Finally fighter/thief is more suited to putting out a hurt in combat - that fighter THAC0 + backstab is wicked - Kensai/thieves are just broken, especially once they get UAI.

I guess other choices just strike me as a better fit for multi- or dual- class cleric combos involving cleric and/or thief.

All that being said, it's just my opinion - please yourself, of course.

Bruce Lee · Post by **Bruce Lee** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 9:31 am

Those arguments are probably all true, but your post actually shows the versitality of the class... look at all the classes you compare with. The cleric/thief has a little bit of everything and if you like buffing and planning and strategy then this class is just right!
And in ToB there are no restrictions at all for this class. With the right spells he'll fight just as well as a fighter, for a short time atleast.

Phantom Lord · Post by **Phantom Lord** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 10:38 am

He will never become as capable as a fighter, because he has no fighter class, true. But a few spells from yourself and your wizard colleague will cure this at least temporarily. With all the undead in the game, turn undead in combination with exploring is great fun as well.

And he's got supreme exploring capabilities (I've always enjoyed exploring a lot, that's why my later characters all were multiclassed thieves, not to speak of the lack of a great thief NPC). Finally, UAI really shifts the balance, just think Staff of the Magi for example.

Grandpa · Post by **Grandpa** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 4:39 pm

That's the problem. People never want to roleplay, they just want the most powerful ub3r l33t character possible. :-/

The Great Hairy · Post by **The Great Hairy** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 6:31 pm

Actually Grandpa, roleplaying a C/T is pretty easy, regardless of how uber s/he gets.

I'm going to try a C/T from BG1 through to BG2 and see how it goes. Still tossing up evil/good though. Might be a half-orc. That would be fun.

Cheers,
TGHO

Bruce Lee · Post by **Bruce Lee** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 5:02 am

Long live the cleric/thief!
The greatest character really. A fighter for instance will either cruise or face an almost impossible situation whereas with a cleric/thief anything is possible

VonDondu · Post by **VonDondu** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 6:32 am

How do you roleplay a Cleric/Thief? It's an interesting character, but I'm not sure how to make sense of it. When I think of a Cleric/Thief, I picture either a Priest of Mask or Friar Tuck (of the Robin Hood legend).