This is my first time playing this game and I chose one of the pre-made parties. I'm finding this party extremely challenging and could use some advice on multiclassing, etc. I'm currently clearing out the area around the Horde Fort. All are approaching a level up soon. Here's what I have:
S'feria Ranul - Female dark elf cleric (lvl 4), Silverstar of Selune,
STR 14, DEX 12, CON 11, INT 12, WIS 18, CHA 14
Combat casting, shield prof
Oagla'ta - Female half orc barbarian (lvl 5)
STR 20, DEX 12, CON 15, INT 8, WIS 10, CHA 10
Great fortitude, shield prof,
Nyzeil Nighthammer - Female gray dwarf fighter (lvl 4),
STR 18, DEX 12, CON 17, INT 10, WIS 12, CHA 6
Bullheaded, Dash, Lightning Reflexes
Navae Quar - Female Half-Elf ranger (lvl 5)
STR 14, DEX 16, CON 13, INT 10, WIS 12, CHA 12
Ambidexterity, Shield prof, armor prof 2
Hylei Shadowhand - Female Rock Gnome Illusionist (lvl 5)
STR 9, DEX 14, CON 12, INT 18, WIS 12, CHA 12
Armored arcana 1, armor prof 1, combat casting, courteous
magocracy,
Kylei Shadowhand - Female Rock Gnome rogue (lvl 5)
STR 9, DEX 18, CON 14, INT 14, WIS 10, CHA 12
Armor prof 1, dodge, expertise, use magic device 4
Should I be multiclassing some of these chars? If so, to what class and level? What feats should they be specializing in? Two of the party are penalized by day blindness which I think is hurting in a lot of my battles. Should I continue on with this party or start over?
Premade Party Advice
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UncleScratchy
- Posts: 869
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Premade Party Advice
"The Khajiit mind is not engineered for self-reflection. We simply do what we do and let the world be damned." Quote from the Ahziirr Traajijazeri
"Fusozay Var Var"
"Fusozay Var Var"
I have never played with a pre-made party since i belive thay suck, my only
advice to you is to build your own party from scratch. And when you do ,
think it through , dont rush it - or you´ll regret it in the end.
Dont hesitate to ask about anything on these forums about characters
because alot of people know alot of good things.
advice to you is to build your own party from scratch. And when you do ,
think it through , dont rush it - or you´ll regret it in the end.
Dont hesitate to ask about anything on these forums about characters
because alot of people know alot of good things.
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Wrath-Of-Egg
- Posts: 1147
- Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2004 9:30 am
- Location: Finland.. or on that other place..
Dumb wizards!!!! they suck!!!! use Sorcerer's... (i dont want to be offensive to you Brynn)
Start new game..
Personally i think this party works realy well trough normal and HoF...
1 char Barbarian.. full class barbarian.. some people give 4 fighter levels but i like wizard levels...
2 char is cleric of oghma.. best domain spells...
3 char is fighter4/bard X.. well in later normal and start HoF this guy kills more than my barb..(spears are must for this char)
4 char Sorcerer.. pick feats like spell penetration.. and spell focuss necromancy.. but this char also uses dual short swords..
Start new game..
Personally i think this party works realy well trough normal and HoF...
1 char Barbarian.. full class barbarian.. some people give 4 fighter levels but i like wizard levels...
2 char is cleric of oghma.. best domain spells...
3 char is fighter4/bard X.. well in later normal and start HoF this guy kills more than my barb..(spears are must for this char)
4 char Sorcerer.. pick feats like spell penetration.. and spell focuss necromancy.. but this char also uses dual short swords..
_________
How can you say no to this face?
But seriusly.. Party without Bard is not party...
I can understand that SYM forum.. mentally 6 year old people is just running around with scissors on their hand.
Last edited by Wrath-Of-Egg : Today
How can you say no to this face?
But seriusly.. Party without Bard is not party...
I can understand that SYM forum.. mentally 6 year old people is just running around with scissors on their hand.
Last edited by Wrath-Of-Egg : Today
[QUOTE=UncleScratchy]
S'feria Ranul - Female dark elf cleric (lvl 4), Silverstar of Selune,
STR 14, DEX 12, CON 11, INT 12, WIS 18, CHA 14
Combat casting, shield prof
Oagla'ta - Female half orc barbarian (lvl 5)
STR 20, DEX 12, CON 15, INT 8, WIS 10, CHA 10
Great fortitude, shield prof,
Nyzeil Nighthammer - Female gray dwarf fighter (lvl 4),
STR 18, DEX 12, CON 17, INT 10, WIS 12, CHA 6
Bullheaded, Dash, Lightning Reflexes
Navae Quar - Female Half-Elf ranger (lvl 5)
STR 14, DEX 16, CON 13, INT 10, WIS 12, CHA 12
Ambidexterity, Shield prof, armor prof 2
Hylei Shadowhand - Female Rock Gnome Illusionist (lvl 5)
STR 9, DEX 14, CON 12, INT 18, WIS 12, CHA 12
Armored arcana 1, armor prof 1, combat casting, courteous
magocracy,
Kylei Shadowhand - Female Rock Gnome rogue (lvl 5)
STR 9, DEX 18, CON 14, INT 14, WIS 10, CHA 12
Armor prof 1, dodge, expertise, use magic device 4[/QUOTE]
As others have said, these characters are perhaps suboptimal, as are all the premade parties, but that said, you can still do ok with these guys. I'll go over each one by one and give some feedabck:
1. S'feria Ranul - Female dark elf cleric. This girls got eveything she really needs, high Wis, a little strength, some Int for Skill points and Cha for turning. I'd keep her a pure Cleric for now. The ECL penalty of 2 levels means she will not get to the point of being truely powerful until a little later than most and multiclassing her will only slow her down more. Make the most of her disabling and offensive spells like Hold Person and her Domain spells like Moonmotes and Moonblade. Put her at the front of the party so she can fire off her Moonmotes spell at an approaching group of enemies. This spell is actually pretty good. I've never been able to cast it , but for 2nd level it pretty good. If it doesn't hurt your own team fire it off from behind the lines. Her real role will be a disabling caster and buffer, and a back up archer with a sling. Feats for her: Spell Focus and Great. Spell Focus: Enchantment, Improved Initiative, Subvocal casting, Weapon Focus: Simple weapon: Missile. She's not a front line fighter, remeber this and get her out of the way once she has cast her 'motes. As for skills, max out Concentration, same as all casters.
2. Oagla'ta - Female half orc barbarian. She is your primary tank. At your next level, Multiclass her to Fighter. You will get a few feats, 2 or 3 I think, take Power Attack and Cleave, and if possible take Weapon Focus: Greatswords. When you get points to spend on attributes, pump up her Constituation. She's already got good strength and the Extra HP is more valuable.n Once you hvae 4 Fighter levels you can go back to Barbarian. Taking these fighter levels allows you to get weapon Specialisation and Maximised Attacks feats. Spend your bonus fighter feats on Specialisation in Greatswords and either Polearms or Axes. This character should be using 2 handed weapons to get the most out of her strength and enable her to hit more often.
Nyzeil Nighthammer - Female gray dwarf fighter. Your 2nd Tank. Much the same advise as above, but stay as pure fighter for now. Get your weapons specialisation and Maximised attacks. When you get to higher levels you might want to Multiclass to Barbarian for extra HP and Rage, or Rogue for sneak attacks. This girl is a front line fighter so 2 handers for him too.
Navae Quar - Female Half-Elf ranger. This girl will be your "special forces" character. She's a good combatant, and needs to be making use of her Dual Weilding abilities but can't take much punishment. This girl should again be multiclassed. Take Bard levels until you have about 5 or 6. Spend your next attribute point on Charisma to get you to 13 (you will find items later that can pump your Charisma by +1 which will get you to 14 - your goal). Spend all others on Strength and Con. to up her fighting ability. 5 levels of Bard give you access to some good spells, particularly Grease, Charm Person, Chromatic Orb and the essential Mirror Image, 14 Cha. gives you a bonus spell at level 2 which is very handy. While your other 2 tanks rush into combat have her Mirror Image herself then from the flanks. The images will protect her quite well while she carves opponents up. Feats for her should be Weapon Focus in Shortblades and Exotic Weapon: Bastard Sword. This will allow you to maximise her damage dealing with 2 weapons. Improved Initiative is also handy so she can cast Mirror images at casting time 1, so she is very hard to disrupt. Spend kill points in concetration, use magic device and knowledge: Arcana.
Hylei Shadowhand - Female Rock Gnome Illusionist. This caracter is your artillery. Don't multiclass her and spend all feats on Spell Focus's and Spell Penetration. Keep pumping her Int. she will become a powerful character with hard to resist spells. Shades is a good one for summoning. I can't remember if Illusionists can learn Necromancy spells or not but if so, Animate Dead is a must.
Kylei Shadowhand - Female Rock Gnome rogue. This character should stick to Rogue for now. Keep upping her Rogue levels and use her as an archer and Sneak attack finisher. Once she gets to about 10th level Rogue, Multiclass to Wizard-Illusionist. This is to get her some good spells like Improved Invisibility and Mirror Image. This character will be primarily an archer for you so the Rapid Shot feat is a must. You can look taking the Two weapon Fighting, Ambidexterity and Weapon Finesse feats. This will make you more dangerous in combat, Weapon Focus: shortsword is a good call for her as well. You might not do too much direct damage, but you will hit often and your sneak attack bonus will be very useful. This character is similar to your ranger. Not a toe to toe fighter but more of an assassin stiking from the shadow or from behind. I'd recommend dual wielding only shortwords, so your attacks have the best chance of hitting. The Wizard Levels allow you to have a few more tricks up your sleeve and it's the only class a gnome can multiclass to I think. If you want to you can go pure Rogue. This has the advantage of giving you massive sneak attacks, but less 'tricks'.
S'feria Ranul - Female dark elf cleric (lvl 4), Silverstar of Selune,
STR 14, DEX 12, CON 11, INT 12, WIS 18, CHA 14
Combat casting, shield prof
Oagla'ta - Female half orc barbarian (lvl 5)
STR 20, DEX 12, CON 15, INT 8, WIS 10, CHA 10
Great fortitude, shield prof,
Nyzeil Nighthammer - Female gray dwarf fighter (lvl 4),
STR 18, DEX 12, CON 17, INT 10, WIS 12, CHA 6
Bullheaded, Dash, Lightning Reflexes
Navae Quar - Female Half-Elf ranger (lvl 5)
STR 14, DEX 16, CON 13, INT 10, WIS 12, CHA 12
Ambidexterity, Shield prof, armor prof 2
Hylei Shadowhand - Female Rock Gnome Illusionist (lvl 5)
STR 9, DEX 14, CON 12, INT 18, WIS 12, CHA 12
Armored arcana 1, armor prof 1, combat casting, courteous
magocracy,
Kylei Shadowhand - Female Rock Gnome rogue (lvl 5)
STR 9, DEX 18, CON 14, INT 14, WIS 10, CHA 12
Armor prof 1, dodge, expertise, use magic device 4[/QUOTE]
As others have said, these characters are perhaps suboptimal, as are all the premade parties, but that said, you can still do ok with these guys. I'll go over each one by one and give some feedabck:
1. S'feria Ranul - Female dark elf cleric. This girls got eveything she really needs, high Wis, a little strength, some Int for Skill points and Cha for turning. I'd keep her a pure Cleric for now. The ECL penalty of 2 levels means she will not get to the point of being truely powerful until a little later than most and multiclassing her will only slow her down more. Make the most of her disabling and offensive spells like Hold Person and her Domain spells like Moonmotes and Moonblade. Put her at the front of the party so she can fire off her Moonmotes spell at an approaching group of enemies. This spell is actually pretty good. I've never been able to cast it , but for 2nd level it pretty good. If it doesn't hurt your own team fire it off from behind the lines. Her real role will be a disabling caster and buffer, and a back up archer with a sling. Feats for her: Spell Focus and Great. Spell Focus: Enchantment, Improved Initiative, Subvocal casting, Weapon Focus: Simple weapon: Missile. She's not a front line fighter, remeber this and get her out of the way once she has cast her 'motes. As for skills, max out Concentration, same as all casters.
2. Oagla'ta - Female half orc barbarian. She is your primary tank. At your next level, Multiclass her to Fighter. You will get a few feats, 2 or 3 I think, take Power Attack and Cleave, and if possible take Weapon Focus: Greatswords. When you get points to spend on attributes, pump up her Constituation. She's already got good strength and the Extra HP is more valuable.n Once you hvae 4 Fighter levels you can go back to Barbarian. Taking these fighter levels allows you to get weapon Specialisation and Maximised Attacks feats. Spend your bonus fighter feats on Specialisation in Greatswords and either Polearms or Axes. This character should be using 2 handed weapons to get the most out of her strength and enable her to hit more often.
Nyzeil Nighthammer - Female gray dwarf fighter. Your 2nd Tank. Much the same advise as above, but stay as pure fighter for now. Get your weapons specialisation and Maximised attacks. When you get to higher levels you might want to Multiclass to Barbarian for extra HP and Rage, or Rogue for sneak attacks. This girl is a front line fighter so 2 handers for him too.
Navae Quar - Female Half-Elf ranger. This girl will be your "special forces" character. She's a good combatant, and needs to be making use of her Dual Weilding abilities but can't take much punishment. This girl should again be multiclassed. Take Bard levels until you have about 5 or 6. Spend your next attribute point on Charisma to get you to 13 (you will find items later that can pump your Charisma by +1 which will get you to 14 - your goal). Spend all others on Strength and Con. to up her fighting ability. 5 levels of Bard give you access to some good spells, particularly Grease, Charm Person, Chromatic Orb and the essential Mirror Image, 14 Cha. gives you a bonus spell at level 2 which is very handy. While your other 2 tanks rush into combat have her Mirror Image herself then from the flanks. The images will protect her quite well while she carves opponents up. Feats for her should be Weapon Focus in Shortblades and Exotic Weapon: Bastard Sword. This will allow you to maximise her damage dealing with 2 weapons. Improved Initiative is also handy so she can cast Mirror images at casting time 1, so she is very hard to disrupt. Spend kill points in concetration, use magic device and knowledge: Arcana.
Hylei Shadowhand - Female Rock Gnome Illusionist. This caracter is your artillery. Don't multiclass her and spend all feats on Spell Focus's and Spell Penetration. Keep pumping her Int. she will become a powerful character with hard to resist spells. Shades is a good one for summoning. I can't remember if Illusionists can learn Necromancy spells or not but if so, Animate Dead is a must.
Kylei Shadowhand - Female Rock Gnome rogue. This character should stick to Rogue for now. Keep upping her Rogue levels and use her as an archer and Sneak attack finisher. Once she gets to about 10th level Rogue, Multiclass to Wizard-Illusionist. This is to get her some good spells like Improved Invisibility and Mirror Image. This character will be primarily an archer for you so the Rapid Shot feat is a must. You can look taking the Two weapon Fighting, Ambidexterity and Weapon Finesse feats. This will make you more dangerous in combat, Weapon Focus: shortsword is a good call for her as well. You might not do too much direct damage, but you will hit often and your sneak attack bonus will be very useful. This character is similar to your ranger. Not a toe to toe fighter but more of an assassin stiking from the shadow or from behind. I'd recommend dual wielding only shortwords, so your attacks have the best chance of hitting. The Wizard Levels allow you to have a few more tricks up your sleeve and it's the only class a gnome can multiclass to I think. If you want to you can go pure Rogue. This has the advantage of giving you massive sneak attacks, but less 'tricks'.
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[QUOTE=Wrath-Of-Egg]Dumb wizards!!!! they suck!!!! use Sorcerer's... (i dont want to be offensive to you Brynn)[/QUOTE]
It's OK - we've got different tastes
Not much to add to Heidrek's post, I think... If all these chars fit your roleplaying style, why not use them? (As for me, I'd never travel with a party full of females...)
It's OK - we've got different tastes
Not much to add to Heidrek's post, I think...
If all these chars fit your roleplaying style, why not use them? (As for me, I'd never travel with a party full of females...)Up the IRONS!
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Wrath-Of-Egg
- Posts: 1147
- Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2004 9:30 am
- Location: Finland.. or on that other place..
In reply to Brynn's post..
[this is brynn's post]
Not much to add to Heidrek's post, I think... If all these chars fit your roleplaying style, why not use them? (As for me, I'd never travel with a party full of females...)
Yep i dont create full girl/boy parties either.. partys are more likely 50/50.. or 75/25..
But as for whole woman party.. well it is quite cold up there.. and who knows what would happen...
[this is brynn's post]
Not much to add to Heidrek's post, I think... If all these chars fit your roleplaying style, why not use them? (As for me, I'd never travel with a party full of females...)
Yep i dont create full girl/boy parties either.. partys are more likely 50/50.. or 75/25..
But as for whole woman party.. well it is quite cold up there.. and who knows what would happen...
_________
How can you say no to this face?
But seriusly.. Party without Bard is not party...
I can understand that SYM forum.. mentally 6 year old people is just running around with scissors on their hand.
Last edited by Wrath-Of-Egg : Today
How can you say no to this face?
But seriusly.. Party without Bard is not party...
I can understand that SYM forum.. mentally 6 year old people is just running around with scissors on their hand.
Last edited by Wrath-Of-Egg : Today
I never understood the use of the bard-class , and not to mention
how hard they must be to multiclass with. I especially dont understand
how you can multiclass between fighter and bard since those to classes
requires totally diffrent attributes to be good.
I remember when i made my first multiclasser as a Paladin/Fighter/Bard,
where the bard were the superior class. The Maximum char level was 20,
the Pala was 1 level for some "Courage Aura", fighter was 4 levels for the
weapon feats, the rest was Bard. And i tell you, when he got buffed and
started working those 2 swords.... OMG.. But the diffrense is that in NwN
the duallwield acually WORKS.
So i would like to broaden my mind , and get to know how the bard can
be used successfully, compared to barbs and pure fighters.
Im especially finding it hard to belive that a 4Fight/xx Bard can cause more
havoc then a pure barbarian.
So please... Enlighten me.
how hard they must be to multiclass with. I especially dont understand
how you can multiclass between fighter and bard since those to classes
requires totally diffrent attributes to be good.
I remember when i made my first multiclasser as a Paladin/Fighter/Bard,
where the bard were the superior class. The Maximum char level was 20,
the Pala was 1 level for some "Courage Aura", fighter was 4 levels for the
weapon feats, the rest was Bard. And i tell you, when he got buffed and
started working those 2 swords.... OMG.. But the diffrense is that in NwN
the duallwield acually WORKS.
So i would like to broaden my mind , and get to know how the bard can
be used successfully, compared to barbs and pure fighters.
Im especially finding it hard to belive that a 4Fight/xx Bard can cause more
havoc then a pure barbarian.
So please... Enlighten me.
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Wrath-Of-Egg
- Posts: 1147
- Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2004 9:30 am
- Location: Finland.. or on that other place..
So perhaps i will write it another time..
fighter 4/bard X.. you can add other classes by your own taste...
As for armor..
Chain of Drakhas is made for this character.. and +4 strengt belt and +5 dex boots are also must for this char..
As for weapons..
I would choose sprears and quarter staffs.. why? Well there is spear called 12 paces.. and it is realy sweet... then phantom quarter staff +5 has longer range than most missle weapons.. but down side is that it is part of random loot..
As you know bnard gets many good boost spells.. and shades.. so i am sure you know what spells to use.. and feats to pick..
This char needs many skill points.. but all importand skill should be on range of 14-16.. is there anything else you want to know?
fighter 4/bard X.. you can add other classes by your own taste...
As for armor..
Chain of Drakhas is made for this character.. and +4 strengt belt and +5 dex boots are also must for this char..
As for weapons..
I would choose sprears and quarter staffs.. why? Well there is spear called 12 paces.. and it is realy sweet... then phantom quarter staff +5 has longer range than most missle weapons.. but down side is that it is part of random loot..
As you know bnard gets many good boost spells.. and shades.. so i am sure you know what spells to use.. and feats to pick..
This char needs many skill points.. but all importand skill should be on range of 14-16.. is there anything else you want to know?
_________
How can you say no to this face?
But seriusly.. Party without Bard is not party...
I can understand that SYM forum.. mentally 6 year old people is just running around with scissors on their hand.
Last edited by Wrath-Of-Egg : Today
How can you say no to this face?
But seriusly.. Party without Bard is not party...
I can understand that SYM forum.. mentally 6 year old people is just running around with scissors on their hand.
Last edited by Wrath-Of-Egg : Today
Just saying my opinion on day-blindness.
On my first time through iwd2 i had 6 dorw(that was my first d&d game) theey sounded sooooooo cool. Didn't look so much at their bad sides.
But i made it all way to dragons eye lvl 4 with that party(lost my save game, a very sad day.)
But my point is, if a newbie can make it on his first time it should not be a problem for you.
On my first time through iwd2 i had 6 dorw(that was my first d&d game) theey sounded sooooooo cool. Didn't look so much at their bad sides.
But i made it all way to dragons eye lvl 4 with that party(lost my save game, a very sad day.)
But my point is, if a newbie can make it on his first time it should not be a problem for you.
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winter sorrow
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@Dreez
You underestimate the bard's usefulness.
There are a number of tricks that bards can use which make them effective spellswords. I'm sure you can find them elsewhere in this forum. As for ultimate havoc, at the highest levels, what else can beat a successful wail of banshee? I agree that Wrath's kind of melee build for a bard is a good idea. An archer biased / weapon finess type build does not work as well: too many times missles / piercing weapons aren't effective in combat.
Bards aren't easy to use effectively by any means: but that's what makes them so interesting.
You underestimate the bard's usefulness.
There are a number of tricks that bards can use which make them effective spellswords. I'm sure you can find them elsewhere in this forum. As for ultimate havoc, at the highest levels, what else can beat a successful wail of banshee? I agree that Wrath's kind of melee build for a bard is a good idea. An archer biased / weapon finess type build does not work as well: too many times missles / piercing weapons aren't effective in combat.
Bards aren't easy to use effectively by any means: but that's what makes them so interesting.
The Fighter/Bard build has a few advantages over pure fighter, and a few disadvantages. I'll start with the downsides then go on to the positives.
Cons:
Less HP than a pure fighter.
Lower BAB than pure fighter.
Less feats than pure fighter.
Bards can't cast well in armour.
Bards need Cha, a stat not useful in combat (unlike Str/Con/Dex).
Pros:
Spells! This is the main advantage. Mirror Image, Improved Invisibility, Horror, Dire Charm, Grease, Emotion: Hope, Emotion: Despair, Chromatic Orb. All these can be yours with relatively few Bard Levels. At Higher levels you get Great Shout and Mass Haste (both great at the start of a fight).
Bard Songs: you get the full range at level 11. This is achieveable with 4 fighter levels too in normal mode. There are some great songs like Tymora's Melody and Tale of Three Heroes, that you can be singing all the time, like a permanent Bless etc. Very good in early game as a self buff.
You don't need massive charisma to take bard levels, most of the time 14 Charisma is fine. This allows you to take upto 4th level bard spells and gives you a bonus first and second level slot. Remember, most of your spells won't are buffing or defensive, so you don't need high DC. Great Shout stuns opponents whether they save or not anyway.
You can play this character either way, a Bard who can fight (4 fighter levels for weapns prof. and specialisation/maximised attacks) or a Fighter that has a few tricks up his sleeve (5 Bard levels allows a few 2nd level castings for Mirror Images, plus 3 of the best Bard songs).
One other advantage is access to the Use Magic Device skill. This is pretty handy as it allows your character to use cleric scrolls giving access to Divine and Arcane spells and wand effects.
Cons:
Less HP than a pure fighter.
Lower BAB than pure fighter.
Less feats than pure fighter.
Bards can't cast well in armour.
Bards need Cha, a stat not useful in combat (unlike Str/Con/Dex).
Pros:
Spells! This is the main advantage. Mirror Image, Improved Invisibility, Horror, Dire Charm, Grease, Emotion: Hope, Emotion: Despair, Chromatic Orb. All these can be yours with relatively few Bard Levels. At Higher levels you get Great Shout and Mass Haste (both great at the start of a fight).
Bard Songs: you get the full range at level 11. This is achieveable with 4 fighter levels too in normal mode. There are some great songs like Tymora's Melody and Tale of Three Heroes, that you can be singing all the time, like a permanent Bless etc. Very good in early game as a self buff.
You don't need massive charisma to take bard levels, most of the time 14 Charisma is fine. This allows you to take upto 4th level bard spells and gives you a bonus first and second level slot. Remember, most of your spells won't are buffing or defensive, so you don't need high DC. Great Shout stuns opponents whether they save or not anyway.
You can play this character either way, a Bard who can fight (4 fighter levels for weapns prof. and specialisation/maximised attacks) or a Fighter that has a few tricks up his sleeve (5 Bard levels allows a few 2nd level castings for Mirror Images, plus 3 of the best Bard songs).
One other advantage is access to the Use Magic Device skill. This is pretty handy as it allows your character to use cleric scrolls giving access to Divine and Arcane spells and wand effects.
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winter sorrow
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silverdragon72
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.
...don't think that a fighter / bard is that good...
...would always prefer a fighter 4 - rogue 3 - barb 3 - ranger 0 or 3 - wizard 17 or 20 !
and a bard 9 - druid 21 as diplomat support PC - should get great in melee when shapeshifted later...
...at least I hope that the defensive-buffs of the bard won't get canceled when shapeshifting - but maybe someone has tested this already ?
EDIT: [back to topic] would never use a premade party - cause party and PC-building is one of the main issues (and fun) in an RPG ! [/back to topic]
.
...don't think that a fighter / bard is that good...
...would always prefer a fighter 4 - rogue 3 - barb 3 - ranger 0 or 3 - wizard 17 or 20 !
and a bard 9 - druid 21 as diplomat support PC - should get great in melee when shapeshifted later...
...at least I hope that the defensive-buffs of the bard won't get canceled when shapeshifting - but maybe someone has tested this already ?
EDIT: [back to topic] would never use a premade party - cause party and PC-building is one of the main issues (and fun) in an RPG ! [/back to topic]
.
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Vincent Vega
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I imagine why Unclescratchy is having so much trouble with this party is because there are too many subraces, there are 2 rock gnomes meaning they are always going to be 3 levels behind everyone else and Drow and Duergar are both 1 level behind. you should really make a party that has less races with a modified character level because generally the bonuses aren't worth it
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Wrath-Of-Egg
- Posts: 1147
- Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2004 9:30 am
- Location: Finland.. or on that other place..
Deep gnomes are 3 levels behind.. rock gnomes are normal or 1 level behind..
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How can you say no to this face?
But seriusly.. Party without Bard is not party...
I can understand that SYM forum.. mentally 6 year old people is just running around with scissors on their hand.
Last edited by Wrath-Of-Egg : Today
How can you say no to this face?
But seriusly.. Party without Bard is not party...
I can understand that SYM forum.. mentally 6 year old people is just running around with scissors on their hand.
Last edited by Wrath-Of-Egg : Today
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UncleScratchy
- Posts: 869
- Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2002 11:28 am
- Location: Location: PA
- Contact:
[QUOTE=Heidrek]As others have said, these characters are perhaps suboptimal, as are all the premade parties, but that said, you can still do ok with these guys. I'll go over each one by one and give some feedabck: ....[/QUOTE]
Thank Hiedrek, that's the kind of advice I was seeking. Yes I know I could have rolled a better party but this was a new option that the other BG/IWD games didn't provide so I wanted to give it a try. The mechanics and 3E rules for this game are a big change from previous games in this genre as well. I leveled up a few times between my original post and yours and my party is doing much better now. I've kept my cleric a pure char, I just gave my barbarian and ranger a level in fighter (but I didn't get any feats with that), I've kept the dwarven fighter and wizard as pure chars so far and I gave my rogue a single level in ranger for the ambidex ability.
@Vincent Vega: Thanks for that advice as well. The subraces really make it a challenge. I pretty much have to wait until nightfall to fight outdoor battles due to the day-blindness of the drow and dwarf. I didn't realize the rock gnomes were penalized as well though.
Unless the 3E rules penalize female chars I don't know why anyone would care whether this pre-made was all female. It may be a matter of taste but if theres no gender penalty then its irrevelant.
Thank Hiedrek, that's the kind of advice I was seeking. Yes I know I could have rolled a better party but this was a new option that the other BG/IWD games didn't provide so I wanted to give it a try. The mechanics and 3E rules for this game are a big change from previous games in this genre as well. I leveled up a few times between my original post and yours and my party is doing much better now. I've kept my cleric a pure char, I just gave my barbarian and ranger a level in fighter (but I didn't get any feats with that), I've kept the dwarven fighter and wizard as pure chars so far and I gave my rogue a single level in ranger for the ambidex ability.
@Vincent Vega: Thanks for that advice as well. The subraces really make it a challenge. I pretty much have to wait until nightfall to fight outdoor battles due to the day-blindness of the drow and dwarf. I didn't realize the rock gnomes were penalized as well though.
Unless the 3E rules penalize female chars I don't know why anyone would care whether this pre-made was all female. It may be a matter of taste but if theres no gender penalty then its irrevelant.
"The Khajiit mind is not engineered for self-reflection. We simply do what we do and let the world be damned." Quote from the Ahziirr Traajijazeri
"Fusozay Var Var"
"Fusozay Var Var"
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silverdragon72
- Posts: 850
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[QUOTE=Vincent Vega]I imagine why Unclescratchy is having so much trouble with this party is because there are too many subraces, there are 2 rock gnomes meaning they are always going to be 3 levels behind everyone else and Drow and Duergar are both 1 level behind. you should really make a party that has less races with a modified character level because generally the bonuses aren't worth it[/QUOTE]
...the ECL races aren't really the levels behind as they seem to be !
...having a lowered average party level they gain (much) more EXP then a normal party and level up faster !
...and all ECL races start with up to 5000 EXP so that all races only need 1000 EXP for level 2 !
...but the SR of drows (btw. ECL -2 not -1) and deep gnomes alone is more then worth it - total magical immunity when equipped with additional SR from the spell or a special sword !
...not to mention the better stats and anything else !
.
...the ECL races aren't really the levels behind as they seem to be !
...having a lowered average party level they gain (much) more EXP then a normal party and level up faster !
...and all ECL races start with up to 5000 EXP so that all races only need 1000 EXP for level 2 !
...but the SR of drows (btw. ECL -2 not -1) and deep gnomes alone is more then worth it - total magical immunity when equipped with additional SR from the spell or a special sword !
...not to mention the better stats and anything else !
.
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Vincent Vega
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As the average level of your party increases you start to get less and less experience for your kills. This is because a 10th level character learns alot less from killing a goblin than a 1st level one does!
By having ECL characters in your party, you're average level is reduced allowing you to get full experience for longer. All characters start 1000 Xp from 2nd level, so if your Deep gnome and Drow will get their first level up the same time as a Human. Problem is after that you need to get alot more XP to level up than other non ECL races. For Example a 2nd level Drow needs 4000 XP to get to 3rd level and a Deep gnome needs 5000 XP, whereas a Human or Wild Elf need only 2000. In fact by the time the Deep Gnome gets to 3rd Level, your Human will be 4th level. This can seriously hamper you in the early game.
By having ECL characters in your party, you're average level is reduced allowing you to get full experience for longer. All characters start 1000 Xp from 2nd level, so if your Deep gnome and Drow will get their first level up the same time as a Human. Problem is after that you need to get alot more XP to level up than other non ECL races. For Example a 2nd level Drow needs 4000 XP to get to 3rd level and a Deep gnome needs 5000 XP, whereas a Human or Wild Elf need only 2000. In fact by the time the Deep Gnome gets to 3rd Level, your Human will be 4th level. This can seriously hamper you in the early game.
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