Dune Sea problems (SPOILERS)

[sun_facer]

Hi all,

I just want to highlight one of the toughest battles I had in kotor. The toughest battles are right towards the end. But this battle occurs rather early in the game while the playable character is still lower in levels. I looked through the threads in the forum but did not find one about this battle. So if you are a new player, do try to avoid this battle.

I am playing the Xbox version. Normal difficulty setting. It occurs in the Dune sea, in area 10 (where the pack of 4 desert wraids are according to the walkthrough on this website). I have completed the game 5 times so far. It happened to me all 5 times.

The trigger points for the sand people to ambush is at the left and right edges of the Dune sea. The huge tanker causes bottlenecks where you are most likely to trigger off the ambushes. I was not looking to be ambushed actually. I was just attacking the pack of wraids. I was a little too confident and took on all 4 of the wraids at the same time. Wraids do not hit often and they are clumsy but they hit hard. Either way, they do not place much threat as long as you watch your vitality points.

Here is where the surprise came. It was a nightmare the 1st time it happened.

While still fighting the wraids, I got ambushed by a pocket of Sand people (2 elite and 1 holy warrior). As said, the 4 wraids are hard enough to handle together. 4 wraids and 3 sand people is a real terror. It is really difficult (and this is not even the Star Forge). The sand people seem to be using using either flurry or power attack. Their movement was fast. The grafitti sticks are most likely to be double-bladed weapons. They took me out real fast.

I experimented and tried different teams but the strongest one I could muster was Bastila, Juhani and my guardian (Scout-Guardian or Soldier-Guardian). I even went to Kashyyk first so that I can reach Tatooine at level 14.

I turned on melee shields, knight valor, hyperstims, battle stims, knight speeds for my team. Still Bastila got slaughtered. Juhani was down 3 out of the 5 times I fought there. Once, I even tried sacrificing force powers by putting calo's armour on my guardian. But my teammates got slaughtered all the same. It was a matter of time before my player got killed too.

There was another time I threw a thermal detonator right in the midst of battle, hutting the sand people and my player. Still, i lost that fight.

In the 5 times I played, this "double battle" occurs. Out of the 5 times, i only won once.

The only way I could work around it was to approach area 10 first to trigger off the sand people ambush. This seems to prevent the ambush from occuring while fighting the wraids.

As i said, I was a little too confident about taking on all the wraids. So i was kinda asking for trouble the 1st time round. I used to play NWN, sword specialist, regenerating 4 points every turn with a harbringer +3. I loved tanking for my friends with a fighter. I thought I could do the same in kotor.

Boy, was I sorry to have thought so.

[fable]

Sun_facer, please check out the sticky thread called, appropriately enough, PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING. (Duh.) It's about putting "Spoiler" in all threads that give away stuff about the game. Not only does your thread do that, but so does your thread title. I'm changing the latter. In the future, please keep this in mind. Thanks.

[fable]

The trigger points for the sand people to ambush is at the left and right edges of the Dune sea. The huge tanker causes bottlenecks where you are most likely to trigger off the ambushes.

I found that ambush locations of the sand people were randomized. I played beyond Manaan (not to give away anything) on the Xbox before moving to the PC, and found that my expectations for ambushes were all wrong. On the Xbox, for example, my first ambush occurred within ten steps of the settlement gate, moving straight out. On the PC, it occurred towards the edge of the markers. In neither case was it near the tanker. So it sounds as though we had differing ambush experiences, even allowing for changes in platforms. And on the PC, I never got the "super-sandpeople" ambush, a pair of generals and secondary leaders who took everything I could throw at 'em to survive.

And I never got hit by the wraids at the same time.

[sun_facer]

Apologies. I did not consider this to be a spoiler. It did not have anything to do with the story. I will do as requested the next time. Thanks.

Yes, I suspected that the difference between platform versions has something to do with this. In fact, I think different date releases may be different too. In fact, after reading through some of the threads and the walkthrough, I realised that there are many problems noted that I do not face.

Then again, there are some others that I face. As in the case of this deadly ambush.

Spoiler !!!
One of the problems that I do not face is the Leviathan cloaking bug. It seems that Bioware took the liberty of cutting out the rescuer dialogue scene altogether. The 1st time i played, i was wondering where this would occur. I hit the computer terminal while my Juhani was still cloaked. And the game went on as usual, with a strange comment scene by Bastila without the mention of the rescuer.

[fable]

[QUOTE=sun_facer]Apologies. I did not consider this to be a spoiler. It did not have anything to do with the story.[/quote]

It doesn't. But to quote from the site owner's spoiler thread, "Please make sure to add "SPOILER" to the name of any new threads that contain information that might spoil someone else's gaming experience." So the story isn't the key--it's spoiling the element of surprise in what we might broadly call game events.

Yes, I suspected that the difference between platform versions has something to do with this. In fact, I think different date releases may be different too. In fact, after reading through some of the threads and the walkthrough, I realised that there are many problems noted that I do not face.

The differences between the two versions are not that great, IMO. Unlike, say, Morrowind, where there are 4000+ mods on the PC and none on the Xbox, the number of PC-based KotoR mods has been extremely small. I'm disappointed in this regard, since I'd hoped for many side quests from the general KotoR community of players. Still, the game plays relatively smoothly on both platforms.

[sun_facer]

Hi!

Yeah, I guess you are right. I got a reply from the webmasters. Dunno if you know them. Same opinion. He played twice on the pc and twice on the xbox. But never came across this problem.

Looks like I am alone in this situation.

[Cowled Kensai]

Try pulling the wraids with sand people clothing on, I always do that. I never encountered a holy warrior before, but this is my first time through KOTOR so I could of missed him. I never get ambushed while wearing sand people clothing, just dont get to close to the sand crawler crew while wearing the sand people duisgise cause they will attack, and this tip was submitted by Cheat Pringle's Gaming Guide.

[Macleod1701]

This has happened to me as well, the sand people ambush when i go near to the wraids. But there is an easy way to kill them all. you can either go solo when in sight of the wraids or not, it doesn't really matter. Run towards the wraids and trigger the ambush, then turn round and run a little away. Hopefully the wraids won't follow you but the sandies will. Wipe them out any way you want and then go back to the wraids and carve out those plates. Never been a problem for me doing it this way

[sun_facer]

Haha.. I guess I'm kinda like Dustil Onasi... never leave anything unfinished.

I could have walked away from the fight... leaving me ladies behind to die. I even once ran behind the miners and workers at the tanker. Strangely, they did not help fire at the sand people nor the wraids. I got slaughtered again.

As mentioned in another thread, this game is like a movie. I just like to see Jedis take up whatever challenge that came their way. Unfortunately this fight tells me that Jedi can fall in battles outside those against Dark Jedis.

From the movies, I had the impression that Jedis can take on monsters too... like how anakin, obiwan and amidala did.... Well, I guess I had one too many movies.

[Gromph]

Oh My!!

wow 4 Wraids and 3 whole Sand Poeple? How ever did you survive???? sorry for the sarcasm but it sounds to me like you might just not be very good at the game, as long as you got sabers for weapons you will kickass

[sun_facer]

Thanks har... being constructive seems to be your forte.

Perhaps you can share with me your strategies in taking on 4 wraids and the ambush at the same time. Afterall, that is why I posted this thread, isn't it?

[Macleod1701]

The best way is the way I set out, just because you're jedi doesn't mean you go charging in to battle without tactics, or the possibility of retreat against overwhelming odds. I got killed the first time at this stage doing that....but that was the fist ever game I played, after that I used guerrila tactics. Hit and run works all the time!
Jedi are not stupid barbarians with blood lust, even the dark ones!

[UserUnfriendly]

insanity...

best power ever...

[sun_facer]

Arh... hmm.. interesting comment. Is Insanity really that powerful? I made Jolee used it all the time. And it does seem to have higher success than my Stasis Field. But I figured that the higher success is due to his Wisdom and Charisma mods being higher than my guardian.

Insanity requires Will saves. Stasis Field requires Fortitude saves. And if enemies saves against Stasis, they are slowed too. Whereas if someone saves against Insanity, there is absolutely no effect.

I play light-side and this has been boggling me for sometime coz I wonder if I should take the insanity route instead of the stasis route.

I have no data on enemies and monsters. Is it true that monsters generally have much lower will saves than fortitude? If so, then it may be worthy to use insanity rather than stasis for a light-sider.

Anyway, this question is out of topic in this thread....

[UserUnfriendly]

[QUOTE=sun_facer]Arh... hmm.. interesting comment. Is Insanity really that powerful? I made Jolee used it all the time. And it does seem to have higher success than my Stasis Field. But I figured that the higher success is due to his Wisdom and Charisma mods being higher than my guardian.

Insanity requires Will saves. Stasis Field requires Fortitude saves. And if enemies saves against Stasis, they are slowed too. Whereas if someone saves against Insanity, there is absolutely no effect.

I play light-side and this has been boggling me for sometime coz I wonder if I should take the insanity route instead of the stasis route.

I have no data on enemies and monsters. Is it true that monsters generally have much lower will saves than fortitude? If so, then it may be worthy to use insanity rather than stasis for a light-sider.

Anyway, this question is out of topic in this thread....[/QUOTE]

its individual, i think...if you build high wis and cha jedi, i'd say insanity is better, cause the fodder generally tend to fail wis saves...

but a lower wis and cha jedi, well, stasis might be better due to the unsavable slow effect...

to my experience, almost everyone fails will saves...i generally prefer most of the horde attacking me to be disabled, so i can kill the remaining ones who made the save, and then recast insanity...but i can see the point of using slow...

slow also reduces the number of attacks, i think...

check the high feedback, like i told you about...that would give you a good idea of an enemy's will save as opposed to fort save...i like having both, actually...(but then i cheat... )

[sun_facer]

Insanity vs Stasis

yeah, I was thinking the same thing. I seldom see insanity fail. Then again, the slow effect did not seem to be very much help unless it was stasis field and the back row grenadiers took extra time to execute the grenade throws, actually allowing me to walk past the blast.

My Jolee has high Wis and Charisma mods. That is why I was tempted to take insanity for my own tank who is a guardian.

The slow helps, but it's actually more cool to see the bunch of them fodder holding their heads in agony. For a light-sider, it costs 2 times the mana to cast insanity compared to stasis field. But it's worth it! I am sure it is!

Maybe I will try it out... and post my results later. I am playing on the Xbox.. dun seem to see any background calculations on the screen anywhere.... I know NWN has it on the PC... darn.

[sun_facer]

hi all!

I just tried out a way to deal with this 4 wraids and 3 sand elites challenge.

My PC is a level 8 Soldier/5 Guardian LS with knight speed and master power attack (yes, not saving levels is actually more powerful for this build!). My team is Jolee and Bastila.

I just stumbled upon the power of KILL.... Jolee and Bastila to use KILL. Guardian to use speed and master power attack. Even though master speed is not available yet, the power attack/speed combo is deadly. KILL not only freezes the monsters for 2 rounds, it also takes away 1/2 their lives. 2 KILLS does the trick. And in this particular battle, much of the problem is that the wraids have a lot of vitality. So... essentially, Jolee can take care of 2 wraids and an elite himself.

In fact, I am beginning to think that KILL is more powerful than force storm.

Using this trick, i got past this "challenge" deadly ambush without using stims and melee shields.

[KrazyJedi]

[QUOTE=sun_facer]
In fact, I am beginning to think that KILL is more powerful than force storm.
[/QUOTE]

Don't know about Kill so much, but I'm rethinking Force Storm. Pretty spectacular, but uses one heck of a lot of Force Points, even for a DS Jedi. Drain Life is much more helpful when hitting lone targets, and Force Wave is great for crowds.

Besides, Drain Life lets you use Malak's captive Jedi to recharge yourself. Heck, even LS Jedi can use it then - no worries about going over to the Dark Side.

[sun_facer]

Team work

I like storm becoz of the movies.. and the fact that it also reduces DJ FP. But it does not stop the enemies from attacking. Sure, it works against crowds. But there is not crowd control. And Consulars need crowd control.

Anyway, I played a consular only to realise that I shouldn't have bothered. Jolee is as much a consular as any build I can come up with. After all, 70% of the game is played with Jolee ard... so I enjoy the use of high DC dark force powers anyway. The thing I need in my games (like this dune sea deadly ambush) is a tanker, strong in hitting and resilient against attacks (which guardians naturally are).

Even while still on Kashyyyk, Jolee quickly becomes a powerful member of the team. I tried him to use Force Storm, death field, Plague, Insanity and comparing that to Stasis. I realise that Jolee's job in my team was not so much to deal damage but to support the battle while still able to take care of himself. (like the ambushes those darn Mandalorians do).

With force storm, you zapp the life outta them.. sure.. but with Kill, they stop moving.. stop attacking.. lose half their vitality points... and then, 2 turns later, they face a speeded master power attack crushing down their heads. They fall immediately of course.. since they only have half life left. In fact, with this tactic, many of my battles turn out to last only 2 to 3 turns.

With force storm, Jolee tends to waste more FP... and still get slaughtered sometimes. What I like about this is that I get to play both Jedis builds... one strong guardian and one strong consular.. 70% of the game. Bastila well... erm... I shan't say more.

So.... for the sake of future discussion, this is the reasons why i come to feel that KILL is a force power which is over looked.

It doesn't affect crowds, .. true.. it doesn't always work.. saves do occur. But it ensures that a consular like Jolee become a good support in battles in many ways. It does however cost less than force storm, death field. And many times, the number of enemies faced is not much of a problem... especially when some are choking to death.. the rest dying from crushing blows from a frenzied guardian.

[UserUnfriendly]

kill will also disable sentinels...

its the only force power that will disable or stun or paralyze a sentinel...the only way to stop a kill attack is force immunity...

i've seen bastilla hit by kill, and even though she saved the vitality loss, she was still stunned for 2 rounds...

its also very fun...

try looking for those czerka goons in the anchorhead cantina...you should now have the option, once you have force choke, picked BY YOUR PC to choke him in dialog, ala vader style...

best of all, if you're scoundrel, you get the sneak attack bonus too...

the best way to use force storm is in combination with stasis, wave or insanity...

hit them with a disabler, then force storm them to death...

i like it better than using force wave, in wide open areas, cause you don't have to run to them to finish them off...

but in a close area, multiple force waves will not only hurt them, or stun them, but will keep them from using items, or force powers on you...