What makes a great RPG?

blake · Post by **blake** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 4:01 pm

I would like to know everyones differing viewpoint on what makes a great RPG, whether it be a great story, dialogue, character customization or whatever. Post your thoughts here.

My personal opinion would have to be a choice in being good or bad in the game.

jopperm2 · Post by **jopperm2** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 4:03 pm

I prefer a good story, but I think this thread should probably be in the game discussion forum.

blake · Post by **blake** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 4:59 pm

I was thinking that myself but then i decided its not really talking about a specific game but more of RPG's in general. That is a genre of games but its not really a game.

jopperm2 · Post by **jopperm2** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 5:01 pm

True, I'm sure one of the Mods will post a judgement in their infinite wisdom.

Ekental · Post by **Ekental** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 5:38 pm

Well... you need a good universe.

A good universe as in you make up the rules to it and stick with it throughout the game. Games get worse and worse as you make more and more exceptions to the rules.

Freedom or the illusion of freedom. Its good to have a main focus on what the whole point of the game is... but other than that there should be freedom to do whatever. I.E. Fallout 2.

Dialogue and interaction. Responses and actions toward society and people should affect their ideas of you etc. That way a person can get into a game

Basically a chance to create a persona and run it through a world as you see fit. Maybe with an incentive to accomplish a seemingly overwhelming quest (at the start anyways)

Tower_Master · Post by **Tower_Master** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:38 pm

Two essentials to a "great" RPG, in my oppinion: REALLY interactive (and DIFFERENT) NPCs all over the place, and a strong, driving storyline.

Mccool · Post by **Mccool** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 8:23 am

When i play an rpg i would like to go into one of the shopes and buy a big set of armor or cloting, like a big actiony dress up game and where people react (properly react, like attacking you or something) depending on what your wearing.

jopperm2 · Post by **jopperm2** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 8:57 am

I'm a PnP gamer first and an electronic gamer second so I like things to be very freeform. I love the Elder Scolls games because you can play for days and not even start the main quest.. When playing Morrowind I usually play side quests until about level 20, then the more boring missions in the main quest go faster.

Yeltsu · Post by **Yeltsu** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 11:52 am

Looks like most of you guy's think of Fallout 2 as the perfect RPG

I Agree

jopperm2 · Post by **jopperm2** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 11:56 am

Hehe.. I've never played it, but I love Morrowind and I think Oblivion should be great.. How about a HHGG Rpg.. That would rock!

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 12:10 pm

For me, the (near) perfect RPG is Planescape Torment:

*amazing storyline
*incredible dialogue
*well-developed and interesting NPCs
*A very unique type of universe and setting
*Gets somewhat away from the conventional: human, elf, dwarf categories

jopperm2 · Post by **jopperm2** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 12:14 pm

I wish I had more time for RPGs, I haven't played a lot of these great RPGs..

Yeltsu · Post by **Yeltsu** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 12:45 pm

Yeah, Planescape: Torment is very nice, especially the NPCs and the twists of the story, but for some reason I like Fallout 2 a bit more, can't explain why though

Ekental · Post by **Ekental** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 3:41 pm

[QUOTE=dragon wench]For me, the (near) perfect RPG is Planescape Torment:[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Asriel] Looks like most of you guy's think of Fallout 2 as the perfect RPG... [/QUOTE]

These two RPGs are #2 and #1 on what I think of as the best RPGs; hence my description of "the perfect RPG". Fallout 2 just has something that Torment seems to lack however. I can't quite identify it though can anyone help me out?

Bloodthroe · Post by **Bloodthroe** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 5:02 pm

Plot Twists, I guess that's about it.

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 5:10 pm

[QUOTE=dragon wench]For me, the (near) perfect RPG is Planescape Torment:
[/QUOTE]

Yes, I agree - for me it is very important that an RPG game world disassociate itself from the boring old stereotypes (good-evil, gender roles, race stereotypes, "save the world" etc) since I play games for entertainment, not to be force fed the same old repetitative stereotypes that all other popular culture flood us with.

An unexpected storyline, good dialogue, varied and nuanced NPC:s and a world that is interesting to explore because it really is unfamiliar, is what I like in RPG:s. I guess that's why I so seldom play any RPG:s...

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 6:32 pm

[QUOTE=C Elegans]Yes, I agree - for me it is very important that an RPG game world disassociate itself from the boring old stereotypes (good-evil, gender roles, race stereotypes, "save the world" etc) since I play games for entertainment, not to be force fed the same old repetitative stereotypes that all other popular culture flood us with.

An unexpected storyline, good dialogue, varied and nuanced NPC:s and a world that is interesting to explore because it really is unfamiliar, is what I like in RPG:s. I guess that's why I so seldom play any RPG:s...

[/QUOTE]

I entirely agree. I can't help but wonder though if this is more of a minority point of view. Quite a few people I have spoken to found they could not 'get into' PST because it did not fit with their expectations of what they felt an RPG should be like. I really loved PST because of the in-depth philosophies presented in the dialogue, as well as the game's atmosphere and uniqueness, but I have gotten the impression from some people that these very aspects were a major turnoff.

I also seem to recall that a sequel was not made for PST as had been planned because the game did not sell as well as some other games. Though Fable will know more about this, my memory here is a little faulty and I may be wrong.

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 7:06 pm

dragon wench wrote:I can't help but wonder though if this is more of a minority point of view. Quite a few people I have spoken to found they could not 'get into' PST because it did not fit with their expectations of what they felt an RPG should be like.

It is possible that it is a minority view. I suppose it is associated to the general question of what people find entertaining. Stereotyped, predictable Hollywood movies are very popular, and I would guess that stereotypes and predictability gives a sense of familiarity that may induce a pleasant feeling for many people.

I also seem to recall that a sequel was not made for PST as had been planned because the game did not sell as well as some other games. Though Fable will know more about this, my memory here is a little faulty and I may be wrong.

Yes, I am sure there was a sequel planned, but I don't remember why it was never released. We have to wait for Fable to clarify this. If it was due to low selling of PST it is really a pity.
After PST I didn't finish any other RPG, although I tried several. Instead, I went back to playing Diablo 2. A fast and simple shot-em-up-game keeps you absorbed by the sheer level of visumotoric activity, but a bad and boring story does neither keeps me absorbed nor does it provide entertainment to me, it only makes me annoyed and frustrated.

fable · Post by **fable** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 7:12 pm

[QUOTE=C Elegans]Yes, I am sure there was a sequel planned, but I don't remember why it was never released. We have to wait for Fable to clarify this. If it was due to low selling of PST it is really a pity.
[/QUOTE]

I spoke to one of the PR team associated with BIS whom I'd known for a number of years, at different agencies. He was pretty frank about it all: the BIS team associated with PS:T was eager to work on a followup and had actually started it, when Interplay's budget mavens decided the game just wasn't pulling in the huge numbers they wanted, and switched them over to T.O.R.N. (PS:T actually did quite well. It simply didn't in their mind justify a second release, when a first release on an unknown project--to their way of thinking--made more sense.) They actually produced a brief demo of this, but were still very annoyed about PS:T 2. Eventually, they got into an adversarial relationship with Interplay management over T.O.R.N resources, and the entire team was simply fired. Not everybody in BIS was fired, of course, because there were others in the company working on the IWD franchise. But effectively, BIS was a very different company before and after that episode.

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 8:31 pm

@Fable: So, if I understand you correctly it was more a question of company policies here, rather than PS:T doing badly?

I know nothing about game development and the game industry, but it was a pity the whole project was abandoned, and for people like me and DW it's a pity that there are so few interesting games around.