First off, spoiler warning... there are lot of potential small spoilers in my text... nothing major... but still. I don't think its worth it to black out, but you are warned!
Alright, so the Kueij-jin are like vampires... but they're not! The game never really gives a lot of info on them, so I'm here to ask the experience VtM players what on earth they are.
Are they kindred? Just one of the 13 clans? So does that make them descendants of Cain, even though they don't like to admit it? Or are they more of the "Asian verson" of vampires-- another race of WoD things (for lack of a better word), as different from Kindred as werewolves? The way Ming Xiao explains it, Kueij-jin are like a "good" version of Kindred... immortal but not really undead, blood drinking isn't bad, etc. Just euphimisms, or is there any truth to that? What happens when an Asian is embraced by a Kindred? Do they become a Vampire, or a Kueij-jin?
Alright, I think I'm done. I hope that I'll get the same quality of responses as in the werewolf thread-- that was a very interesting read there!
So where do Kueij-jin fit in this universe? *spoilers*
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falconis_99
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flesh eating monster
remember miska (that was her name?)... where does her race fit into the universe... More savage than the vampires, hunted by the kindred as an abomination they seem very powerfull, although you don't get the chance to fight her (at least not in my solving of the game) to see where it stands
remember miska (that was her name?)... where does her race fit into the universe... More savage than the vampires, hunted by the kindred as an abomination they seem very powerfull, although you don't get the chance to fight her (at least not in my solving of the game) to see where it stands
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Jandau
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[QUOTE=soni]remember miska (that was her name?)... where does her race fit into the universe... More savage than the vampires, hunted by the kindred as an abomination they seem very powerfull, although you don't get the chance to fight her (at least not in my solving of the game) to see where it stands[/QUOTE]
The name's Pihsa and you can fight her. When you first meet her keep selecting the "violent" dialogue options and refuse to bargain with her. A fight will start and shell raise a few zombies to back her up. She's pretty wimpy....
The name's Pihsa and you can fight her. When you first meet her keep selecting the "violent" dialogue options and refuse to bargain with her. A fight will start and shell raise a few zombies to back her up. She's pretty wimpy....
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pennypincher
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This will be the THIRD time I've tried to post on this thread now.. So here you go! You KNEW I had to throw in my 2 cents didn't ya?
SPOILERS SPOILERS EVERYWHERE, AND LO THE BOARDS DO SHRINK.
SPOILERS SPOILERS EVERYWHERE, SO WHY NOT GO GET A DRINK?
PISHA: Pisha is part of a clan of Cainite vampires whos name I can never pronounce or spell. Something like... Najaria, or Najararia, or... Nagasaki?? No no, but something like that. They are one of the few clans who gets necromancy. Of course, all the other clans who get necromancy were either wiped out as demon worshipers, or the hated Giovanni who prove themselves deadly and creepy every night. Obviously, this hasn't earned Pisha's clan any friends.
Sadly it gets worse! Pisha's clan flaw is that she cannot drink blood. Rather, 1 pound of human flesh is needed to earn her one blood point. Yep, one pound of living human tissue. Mmmm mmm! Wheres the beef!? Obviously, this has a MASSIVE strain on the Masquerade, as a little nibble that leaves a pleasured, confused victim is fine... While missing 6 pounds of flesh on a screaming, chewed on, bleeding victim.. A little less so!
Both these factors went into consideration when the Cammerilla finaly decided to try and wipe Pisha's clan off the face of the earth. Worked pretty well too. Lore hunters have found only a few, scary traces that suggest maybe a few of them are still alive. The fact you mannaged to blunder your way into one in bloodlines.. In the middle of LA.. Is a bit of a joke really.
Kindred Of The East (KoE): In asian myth, a person who wasn't an angel in life is sent to their own personal torment. 1 of 1000 hells. KoE are the souls of people who've mannaged to unhook their intestines and crawl their way back out of the horrid torment arranged for them. Lucky them! They feed off Chi engery, which they get in different ways depending how far along their Dharmic path they are (like humanity, I'll explain in a moment). They have something like a beast, and they rot to death in sunlight. Depending on how they are balanced (Ying or Yang) then stakes through the heart can range from needing to be wood, to needing to be different kinds of metal, to being useless!
When they first drag themselves out of hell, they are maddened with pain and agony. They hunger for flesh and are wild. With some help from other KoE they mannage to find their way along their Dharmic path slowly and build up their control.. As if the oppoiste of Kindred, who go from high humanity to eventualy low humanity, these vampires go from low humanity to eventualy high humanity. Their taste for Chi is refined in this time as well, going from needing Flesh, to blood, to breath, to being able to snatch it from the air itself.
(The views in the following are not my views, rather the views expressed by.. You know.. Some elder vampires full of mistrust and hate. Hi to my asian and western friends, I love you all. Nobody hate me okay?)
Why do the kindred and the KoE hate each other? Well the facts are as follows. The KoE elders and Kindred Elders both come from a time of great racial hate. Asians were "Slanty eyed, evil little devils with only war on their mind who trust nobody except other slanty eyed creeps" while Westeners were "Devils with no honour, manners or civilisation who aren't worth the blood they spill when your done killing them"... Suffice to say, the Elders of both sides have seen no reason to change this point of view. Both sides contiue to preech a "Kill on sight, ask questions latter" policy when it comes to their counsins. Nasty business really.
Is a KoE more powerful then a Kindred? No not really. In game terms, the number of points a KoE is forced to spread out over his/her character makes them weak compared to a Kindred, however the powers they DO get are impressive, and their natural abilities are a quite nice as well. Who would win war bewteen to two. Facts:
Once every couple of years a KoE mannages to escape the horror of hell. You can make a Kindred Vampire once an hour if you have the blood and patients.
KoE are secretive and insular, working better in groups and planning more. Kindred tend to plan a lot, then stab each other in the back to help themselves come out on top.
KoE must balance Ying and Yang Chi carfuly and feed selectivly to stay ahead of the game. Kindred can pump blood to their physical stats, use discplines and even puke up a few blood points just to freak you out, eat any old passing homeless guy and be right as rain.
KoE have impressive natural abilities and super powers that were created after Vampire was already made with the intent of fighting Vampire characters in mind. Vampires get the usual, stock standard Discplines and soem funky powers.
KoE are bogged down in tradition and honour, having set ways of doing things so as not to embrass themselves and their ancestors. Kindred don't mind waiting till your back is turned, blasting you to gibs with a LAW fire and forget rocket launcher and telling everyone it was a stand up, one on one fist fight.
So there you have it. That help much?
SPOILERS SPOILERS EVERYWHERE, AND LO THE BOARDS DO SHRINK.
SPOILERS SPOILERS EVERYWHERE, SO WHY NOT GO GET A DRINK?
PISHA: Pisha is part of a clan of Cainite vampires whos name I can never pronounce or spell. Something like... Najaria, or Najararia, or... Nagasaki?? No no, but something like that. They are one of the few clans who gets necromancy. Of course, all the other clans who get necromancy were either wiped out as demon worshipers, or the hated Giovanni who prove themselves deadly and creepy every night. Obviously, this hasn't earned Pisha's clan any friends.
Sadly it gets worse! Pisha's clan flaw is that she cannot drink blood. Rather, 1 pound of human flesh is needed to earn her one blood point. Yep, one pound of living human tissue. Mmmm mmm! Wheres the beef!? Obviously, this has a MASSIVE strain on the Masquerade, as a little nibble that leaves a pleasured, confused victim is fine... While missing 6 pounds of flesh on a screaming, chewed on, bleeding victim.. A little less so!
Both these factors went into consideration when the Cammerilla finaly decided to try and wipe Pisha's clan off the face of the earth. Worked pretty well too. Lore hunters have found only a few, scary traces that suggest maybe a few of them are still alive. The fact you mannaged to blunder your way into one in bloodlines.. In the middle of LA.. Is a bit of a joke really.
Kindred Of The East (KoE): In asian myth, a person who wasn't an angel in life is sent to their own personal torment. 1 of 1000 hells. KoE are the souls of people who've mannaged to unhook their intestines and crawl their way back out of the horrid torment arranged for them. Lucky them! They feed off Chi engery, which they get in different ways depending how far along their Dharmic path they are (like humanity, I'll explain in a moment). They have something like a beast, and they rot to death in sunlight. Depending on how they are balanced (Ying or Yang) then stakes through the heart can range from needing to be wood, to needing to be different kinds of metal, to being useless!
When they first drag themselves out of hell, they are maddened with pain and agony. They hunger for flesh and are wild. With some help from other KoE they mannage to find their way along their Dharmic path slowly and build up their control.. As if the oppoiste of Kindred, who go from high humanity to eventualy low humanity, these vampires go from low humanity to eventualy high humanity. Their taste for Chi is refined in this time as well, going from needing Flesh, to blood, to breath, to being able to snatch it from the air itself.
(The views in the following are not my views, rather the views expressed by.. You know.. Some elder vampires full of mistrust and hate. Hi to my asian and western friends, I love you all. Nobody hate me okay?)
Why do the kindred and the KoE hate each other? Well the facts are as follows. The KoE elders and Kindred Elders both come from a time of great racial hate. Asians were "Slanty eyed, evil little devils with only war on their mind who trust nobody except other slanty eyed creeps" while Westeners were "Devils with no honour, manners or civilisation who aren't worth the blood they spill when your done killing them"... Suffice to say, the Elders of both sides have seen no reason to change this point of view. Both sides contiue to preech a "Kill on sight, ask questions latter" policy when it comes to their counsins. Nasty business really.
Is a KoE more powerful then a Kindred? No not really. In game terms, the number of points a KoE is forced to spread out over his/her character makes them weak compared to a Kindred, however the powers they DO get are impressive, and their natural abilities are a quite nice as well. Who would win war bewteen to two. Facts:
Once every couple of years a KoE mannages to escape the horror of hell. You can make a Kindred Vampire once an hour if you have the blood and patients.
KoE are secretive and insular, working better in groups and planning more. Kindred tend to plan a lot, then stab each other in the back to help themselves come out on top.
KoE must balance Ying and Yang Chi carfuly and feed selectivly to stay ahead of the game. Kindred can pump blood to their physical stats, use discplines and even puke up a few blood points just to freak you out, eat any old passing homeless guy and be right as rain.
KoE have impressive natural abilities and super powers that were created after Vampire was already made with the intent of fighting Vampire characters in mind. Vampires get the usual, stock standard Discplines and soem funky powers.
KoE are bogged down in tradition and honour, having set ways of doing things so as not to embrass themselves and their ancestors. Kindred don't mind waiting till your back is turned, blasting you to gibs with a LAW fire and forget rocket launcher and telling everyone it was a stand up, one on one fist fight.
So there you have it. That help much?
I was Diablorised once. I got better.
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holy666diver
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I have to admit that I don't know much about the pen and paper VTM (apart from the vast tomes of knowledge pennypincher has been kind enough to share with us 
) but the whole concept of eastern vs. western vampires seems very racist to me. So if you happen to be asian kine, there's no chance of being turned into kindred? That's beyond racist, it's just plain ridiculous. There are black kindred in the game (of course they're all brujah, keeping up with stereotypes) but something about asian DNA prevents you from getting turned? HA!
There was a thread before about the sexual double standard that seems rather prevalent throughout the game (plenty of girl on girl action, but never the other way around) but no one has mentioned the racial implications in this game...don't get me wrong, I love VTMB and play it often (way to much, actually) but whenever I see something in the game, such as the fact that "high-class blood" is better than "low-class blood" (not really racist, but elitist all the same) it makes me cringe a little.
I don't want to sound like some left-wing nutjob, I understand some of the people who work at Troika/White Wolf may or may not have racist/homophobic beliefs and that's fine, people have the right to believe whatever they want to believe on their own time...but as a public entity they also has a certain social responsibility *gets off soap box*.
) but the whole concept of eastern vs. western vampires seems very racist to me. So if you happen to be asian kine, there's no chance of being turned into kindred? That's beyond racist, it's just plain ridiculous. There are black kindred in the game (of course they're all brujah, keeping up with stereotypes) but something about asian DNA prevents you from getting turned? HA!There was a thread before about the sexual double standard that seems rather prevalent throughout the game (plenty of girl on girl action, but never the other way around) but no one has mentioned the racial implications in this game...don't get me wrong, I love VTMB and play it often (way to much, actually) but whenever I see something in the game, such as the fact that "high-class blood" is better than "low-class blood" (not really racist, but elitist all the same) it makes me cringe a little.
I don't want to sound like some left-wing nutjob, I understand some of the people who work at Troika/White Wolf may or may not have racist/homophobic beliefs and that's fine, people have the right to believe whatever they want to believe on their own time...but as a public entity they also has a certain social responsibility *gets off soap box*.
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Komissar Charon
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[QUOTE=Maxinion]What happens when an Asian is embraced by a Kindred? Do they become a Vampire, or a Kueij-jin? [/QUOTE]
I dunno, but Bertram Tung seems like a pretty Asian name to me. So combined with everything else that's been said here so far, the former is most likely. Makes you wonder why you don't see more Asian vampires in the game...
I dunno, but Bertram Tung seems like a pretty Asian name to me. So combined with everything else that's been said here so far, the former is most likely. Makes you wonder why you don't see more Asian vampires in the game...
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pennypincher
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Your most welcome fort he info *bows*
I've been misunderstood thou, pardon me. It's not that asian people CAN'T be kindred.. In fact they can, plenty of them are porlly kindred, it's just that the 1000 hells is a place that is reserved for the spirit of people who belive in the asian culture... A christian wont end up in the 1000 hells, nor will a pagan, only someone who finds their soul drawn to the place of their belife. An American who fully belives in the tradition of eternal baths in lakes of acid by asian Oni is capable of becoming KoE, it's just unlikley, as the demons there don't see much reason to acept those souls, and usualy send them right onto Oblivion.
Sum up? KoE is usualy an asian vampire, or someone who is deeply connected to the asian belife structure and way of life. Kindred can be any mortal who is plucked off the street, drained dry and fed the blood of the undead. No racism, really. The only reason asian people might get chosen less then other people is:
1) Theres less of them wandering around the West then there are other cultures?
2) The Kindred are loath to chose an asian vessel incase it DOES happen to be connected to the Triad or KoE in some way. It wouldn't do to have the chosen servant of a KoE telling his/her master about what you did to them, now would it?
So.. Yeah. Sorry for the confusion.
As for racism and homosexuality at White Wolf, well I don't work there or anything, but these themes play a strong part in the games... And I don't mean "White Wolf demands you kill all gay people and hate the blacks" I mean "In the World of Darkness people are much less openminded about these things.. In part because it makes for a darker setting, and in part because of things like Vampires and Werewolves, who fear other Vampiers and Werewolves comming from other places and snatching the power bases they have created out from under them. It serves a greater purpose for the supernaturals if the mortals aren't very acepting of change or new ideas.. Helps them keep things under control".
I can say, White Wolf aren't shy about there being homosexual tendancies for their Vampires and some of their Fae. They dabble equaly in pleasures of the flesh and blood of both sexs. They are also well educated when it comes to other cultures... They REALLY do their research before they start toting off stuff, and they are carful about the way they present their written material, making sure the reader is aware that any racial or sexual sterotypes are part of the SETTING and not a reflection on reality.
So, again, whatever their personal feelings are, they sure are carful to present their games in an adult and educated manner. S'why I like em!
I've been misunderstood thou, pardon me. It's not that asian people CAN'T be kindred.. In fact they can, plenty of them are porlly kindred, it's just that the 1000 hells is a place that is reserved for the spirit of people who belive in the asian culture... A christian wont end up in the 1000 hells, nor will a pagan, only someone who finds their soul drawn to the place of their belife. An American who fully belives in the tradition of eternal baths in lakes of acid by asian Oni is capable of becoming KoE, it's just unlikley, as the demons there don't see much reason to acept those souls, and usualy send them right onto Oblivion.
Sum up? KoE is usualy an asian vampire, or someone who is deeply connected to the asian belife structure and way of life. Kindred can be any mortal who is plucked off the street, drained dry and fed the blood of the undead. No racism, really. The only reason asian people might get chosen less then other people is:
1) Theres less of them wandering around the West then there are other cultures?
2) The Kindred are loath to chose an asian vessel incase it DOES happen to be connected to the Triad or KoE in some way. It wouldn't do to have the chosen servant of a KoE telling his/her master about what you did to them, now would it?
So.. Yeah. Sorry for the confusion.
As for racism and homosexuality at White Wolf, well I don't work there or anything, but these themes play a strong part in the games... And I don't mean "White Wolf demands you kill all gay people and hate the blacks" I mean "In the World of Darkness people are much less openminded about these things.. In part because it makes for a darker setting, and in part because of things like Vampires and Werewolves, who fear other Vampiers and Werewolves comming from other places and snatching the power bases they have created out from under them. It serves a greater purpose for the supernaturals if the mortals aren't very acepting of change or new ideas.. Helps them keep things under control".
I can say, White Wolf aren't shy about there being homosexual tendancies for their Vampires and some of their Fae. They dabble equaly in pleasures of the flesh and blood of both sexs. They are also well educated when it comes to other cultures... They REALLY do their research before they start toting off stuff, and they are carful about the way they present their written material, making sure the reader is aware that any racial or sexual sterotypes are part of the SETTING and not a reflection on reality.
So, again, whatever their personal feelings are, they sure are carful to present their games in an adult and educated manner. S'why I like em!
I was Diablorised once. I got better.
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Jandau
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There is one thing about Kuei-Jin that makes little sense. If I got it right, they all come back from the dead for some purpose, they have some task to fulfill so that when they die again, they don't wind up in the same hellhole (Ming Xiao says as much).
Now, Kindred stick together on the basis of clan and sect affiliation. Since most of them have no underlying purpose when created, they tend to keep to their own in lack of a better idea.
But the Kuei-Jin each have their own missions, so how and why do they stick together? They don't share a common bloodline, they are not connected to any kind of a sire. At best they can trade stories about what hell they inhabited. Actually, the politics required in an organization that would be able to rival the Cammarilla would probably take up a LOT of time for many of them, thus making it a bit hard for them to pusue their quest, which IMO should be high on the priority list for most of them (what with saving their souls and all that).
Also, what happens to a Kuei-Jin who fulfills his purpose?
Now, Kindred stick together on the basis of clan and sect affiliation. Since most of them have no underlying purpose when created, they tend to keep to their own in lack of a better idea.
But the Kuei-Jin each have their own missions, so how and why do they stick together? They don't share a common bloodline, they are not connected to any kind of a sire. At best they can trade stories about what hell they inhabited. Actually, the politics required in an organization that would be able to rival the Cammarilla would probably take up a LOT of time for many of them, thus making it a bit hard for them to pusue their quest, which IMO should be high on the priority list for most of them (what with saving their souls and all that).
Also, what happens to a Kuei-Jin who fulfills his purpose?
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pennypincher
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Well I will admit some ignorance in this topic.. KoE being one of White Wolf's least decent game (Hunter, Demon, KoE... In that order! Blurgh!) but here is the basic idea.
Sadly, when you drag your sorry butt out of hell, they don't give you a tour guide to your soul. They don't tell you your crimes and how to amend for them... And for many KoE, it's far FAR to late to amend for some crimes by the time your out of hell and back to your senses. After all, if you killed your own daughter and decended into a life of crime, just what DO the Gods want you to do to make up for that?
However, they have some common traits and features.. Particularly, what hell they went too, what kind of crime they commited and how they plan to atone for it. These walks of life are called the Dharmic Paths. These devide the KoE into groups... Some of them being Devil Tigers, Bone Flowers, Graceful Cranes and so on... Our dear lady from Bloodlines is prolly a Crane, given her politness, willingness to speak and such... While her tendancy to turn into a giant slug demon and eat you alive speaks of possable Devil Tiger-ness... Thou they do tend to capture you and tourture you for all eternity.
How do Dharmic Paths function? Well you got SOME nerve asking a question like that! Humph! Okay okay, kinda like this:
The KoE adapts to an outlook on life, the afterlife, and their role in it that suits their personality and their new unlife the best. The Graceful Crane find it their duty to be beautiful and powerful leaders, the guiding hand that gently beckons a young and unwitting fool into a better life, or guides the guilty back to justice. They are as much about personal achivment and spiritual enlightment as they are worldly well being... But that isn't to say they are nice. Just that they do what must be done. Ventrue do what must be done, they aren't nice...
Meanwhile, a Devil Tiger would make a lover, berak they heart by cheating on them, get them to forgive them, agree to marry them, leave them at the alter, then sneak into their house, tourture them for months before letting them die, catch their wayward soul in a jar and sit for hours listening to the sound of their lovers heart breaking over and over again... Thats not to say they aren't nice, just that they belive life is the act of suffering before the cleansing of the afterlife, and they are the agent of suffering. See where this is all going?
Each of them adapts to one of these paths of understanding, just as a Kindred might forgoe his Humanity for a Path Of Enlightenment, and travles down it. Now, when they are served the heavens enough to reach the highest pinical of that path, they are rewarded greatly... They no longer need to have victims to maintain their unlife, rather they can pluck the much needed Ying and Yang energies from the very air around them. They need no longer fear sunlight or wood or metal through the heart, so on so forth.
But White Wolf games are nothing, if not a little hopeless in their feel. Even if you reach a Dharmic rating of 10 SOMEHOW without losing any, your still a ghost of the dead trapped in living flesh. And there you will rot, out of sync with the world and the heavens, never again allowed to see the face of the Gods.. Knowing that one day, no matter what happens, the new age of man will end, and the earth will be destroyed by the very demons you hoped to escape, and when that happens, they are going to drag you back into their torment, kicking and screaming all the way, weeping tears of pearl white for knowladge of the endless eons of pain that await you... Ahem.. Sorry, got carried away.
For a KoE who forsakes his chosen path, only one thing lies in wait for them... Madness. Falling back into the black pit of mental insanity they were spawned from called the Po. The Po is like the beast to Kindred, once it has you, it never lets go, and you'll spend the rest of your days a salavating monster of no mind, seeking human flesh to feast upon. GO YOU!
Also, KoE come from a culture that traidtional is meant to have great respect for it's elders, and obey them without question.. Where honour is life, and if that means getting on well with your rivals long enough to kill your enemies, you do it. Certainaly, they have their politics and their fights and such, but their common goal, like the Cammerilla when it comes to the Masquerade, is all important. They all share the common history of hell, they all share the need to advance their dharmic shedual, and they all share a hatred borne of their elders distrust of the western barbarians. Thats me, western, and barbaric, ugh ugh! *thumps his club and picks his nose*
So, yeah. Honestly, as I said, KoE is one of my LEAST favourite things that White Wolf have done, so that one I might have to go nudge a few friends for a copy of things and read and get back to you.
Sadly, when you drag your sorry butt out of hell, they don't give you a tour guide to your soul. They don't tell you your crimes and how to amend for them... And for many KoE, it's far FAR to late to amend for some crimes by the time your out of hell and back to your senses. After all, if you killed your own daughter and decended into a life of crime, just what DO the Gods want you to do to make up for that?
However, they have some common traits and features.. Particularly, what hell they went too, what kind of crime they commited and how they plan to atone for it. These walks of life are called the Dharmic Paths. These devide the KoE into groups... Some of them being Devil Tigers, Bone Flowers, Graceful Cranes and so on... Our dear lady from Bloodlines is prolly a Crane, given her politness, willingness to speak and such... While her tendancy to turn into a giant slug demon and eat you alive speaks of possable Devil Tiger-ness... Thou they do tend to capture you and tourture you for all eternity.
How do Dharmic Paths function? Well you got SOME nerve asking a question like that! Humph! Okay okay, kinda like this:
The KoE adapts to an outlook on life, the afterlife, and their role in it that suits their personality and their new unlife the best. The Graceful Crane find it their duty to be beautiful and powerful leaders, the guiding hand that gently beckons a young and unwitting fool into a better life, or guides the guilty back to justice. They are as much about personal achivment and spiritual enlightment as they are worldly well being... But that isn't to say they are nice. Just that they do what must be done. Ventrue do what must be done, they aren't nice...
Meanwhile, a Devil Tiger would make a lover, berak they heart by cheating on them, get them to forgive them, agree to marry them, leave them at the alter, then sneak into their house, tourture them for months before letting them die, catch their wayward soul in a jar and sit for hours listening to the sound of their lovers heart breaking over and over again... Thats not to say they aren't nice, just that they belive life is the act of suffering before the cleansing of the afterlife, and they are the agent of suffering. See where this is all going?
Each of them adapts to one of these paths of understanding, just as a Kindred might forgoe his Humanity for a Path Of Enlightenment, and travles down it. Now, when they are served the heavens enough to reach the highest pinical of that path, they are rewarded greatly... They no longer need to have victims to maintain their unlife, rather they can pluck the much needed Ying and Yang energies from the very air around them. They need no longer fear sunlight or wood or metal through the heart, so on so forth.
But White Wolf games are nothing, if not a little hopeless in their feel. Even if you reach a Dharmic rating of 10 SOMEHOW without losing any, your still a ghost of the dead trapped in living flesh. And there you will rot, out of sync with the world and the heavens, never again allowed to see the face of the Gods.. Knowing that one day, no matter what happens, the new age of man will end, and the earth will be destroyed by the very demons you hoped to escape, and when that happens, they are going to drag you back into their torment, kicking and screaming all the way, weeping tears of pearl white for knowladge of the endless eons of pain that await you... Ahem.. Sorry, got carried away.
For a KoE who forsakes his chosen path, only one thing lies in wait for them... Madness. Falling back into the black pit of mental insanity they were spawned from called the Po. The Po is like the beast to Kindred, once it has you, it never lets go, and you'll spend the rest of your days a salavating monster of no mind, seeking human flesh to feast upon. GO YOU!
Also, KoE come from a culture that traidtional is meant to have great respect for it's elders, and obey them without question.. Where honour is life, and if that means getting on well with your rivals long enough to kill your enemies, you do it. Certainaly, they have their politics and their fights and such, but their common goal, like the Cammerilla when it comes to the Masquerade, is all important. They all share the common history of hell, they all share the need to advance their dharmic shedual, and they all share a hatred borne of their elders distrust of the western barbarians. Thats me, western, and barbaric, ugh ugh! *thumps his club and picks his nose*
So, yeah. Honestly, as I said, KoE is one of my LEAST favourite things that White Wolf have done, so that one I might have to go nudge a few friends for a copy of things and read and get back to you.
I was Diablorised once. I got better.
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holy666diver
- Posts: 23
- Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 3:36 pm
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[QUOTE=pennypincher]The only reason asian people might get chosen less then other people is:
1) Theres less of them wandering around the West then there are other cultures?
2) The Kindred are loath to chose an asian vessel incase it DOES happen to be connected to the Triad or KoE in some way.
[/QUOTE]
Those are some pretty good points, thanks for clearing that up...again, I'm really not familiar with the pen and paper VTM, just the VTM:B game I've been playing for way to long. As for having themes of racism and homophobia to present a more authentically darker atmosphere, I can see the logic in that but I don't think that's the right way to go about it. I mean, how long until they have a game about being the chief executioner of a WWII german death camp? Actually, I remember a few years back someone made one, it was some underground punkware game tailored to a very particular few. Anyone remember the name?
1) Theres less of them wandering around the West then there are other cultures?
2) The Kindred are loath to chose an asian vessel incase it DOES happen to be connected to the Triad or KoE in some way.
[/QUOTE]
Those are some pretty good points, thanks for clearing that up...again, I'm really not familiar with the pen and paper VTM, just the VTM:B game I've been playing for way to long. As for having themes of racism and homophobia to present a more authentically darker atmosphere, I can see the logic in that but I don't think that's the right way to go about it. I mean, how long until they have a game about being the chief executioner of a WWII german death camp? Actually, I remember a few years back someone made one, it was some underground punkware game tailored to a very particular few. Anyone remember the name?
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Hamletxx82
- Posts: 19
- Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2003 9:42 am
- Location: Turkey
- Contact:
Second Generation
After the Noah's Ark only thirteen members were still alive.All of them ruled over humankind again by leading their progeny too.But by the curse of dreaded arch angel Gabriel, Caine's progeny will never be organized as human society.Younger aganist elder.The seeds of this curse bloomed in a moonless night.The sons of the thirteen elders killed their fathers and think all of the second generation were totally destroyed and then Caine came with a great sorrow and his grandsons had felt the fear and stood in front of them.Then Caine said "you in heart who has the monstreus feelings u will be monster in apperance."-Nosferatu.You who's ruled by anger and hate will be slave of a anger"_brujah......and he claimed about some prophecies then.Then time of the thin blood would come,couisin the Caine but not doomed by angels,elder and younger together but with my curse my sons, the embraced ones will never be as powerful as elders.from east they come and u would know why u feared the sun...And ur question the Kue-jins are pr second generation whom doesnt destroyed by Noah's Ark.Instead they live with sharks and evolved someway to reduce effects of rays of sun.
After the Noah's Ark only thirteen members were still alive.All of them ruled over humankind again by leading their progeny too.But by the curse of dreaded arch angel Gabriel, Caine's progeny will never be organized as human society.Younger aganist elder.The seeds of this curse bloomed in a moonless night.The sons of the thirteen elders killed their fathers and think all of the second generation were totally destroyed and then Caine came with a great sorrow and his grandsons had felt the fear and stood in front of them.Then Caine said "you in heart who has the monstreus feelings u will be monster in apperance."-Nosferatu.You who's ruled by anger and hate will be slave of a anger"_brujah......and he claimed about some prophecies then.Then time of the thin blood would come,couisin the Caine but not doomed by angels,elder and younger together but with my curse my sons, the embraced ones will never be as powerful as elders.from east they come and u would know why u feared the sun...And ur question the Kue-jins are pr second generation whom doesnt destroyed by Noah's Ark.Instead they live with sharks and evolved someway to reduce effects of rays of sun.
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Hamletxx82
- Posts: 19
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- Location: Turkey
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second generation.
I read these in in the fragments of the nod which's first part is written by Caine himself. although he doesnt say anything about gehenna, the kuejins must be the progeny of the second generation.in nod fragment it says"these were difficult times, brother feed upon brother in the depths of the ocean they lived like sharks and Caine was satisfied.0n his prophecy he says all of the third generation "The Antedevulians" will be not be enough to stop the threat that comes from east.Because invaders from east will be only one step removed from Caine....But there is a point i didnt understand.The pristess of kuejin says they rot instead of burning.according to nod fragment they musnt be affected by sun.maybe only their elders have this speciality.Prince La Croix say they r born from graves instead of being embraced.Maybe after death they r reborn and didnt understand they r embreced while they r alive....u know there is an artifact named Alamut's key in game and the castle Alamut is 2 km away from my home.i am from Turkey and in our history the Alamut castle were the base of asasains who slayed our sultans.the leader was Hassan Sabbath and their man used some kind of leaf named hashas (has a an effect like drugs) before assanitions and they r called Hashasins after that time.dont u think there is a similarity between hashasins and the clan Assamite.
I read these in in the fragments of the nod which's first part is written by Caine himself. although he doesnt say anything about gehenna, the kuejins must be the progeny of the second generation.in nod fragment it says"these were difficult times, brother feed upon brother in the depths of the ocean they lived like sharks and Caine was satisfied.0n his prophecy he says all of the third generation "The Antedevulians" will be not be enough to stop the threat that comes from east.Because invaders from east will be only one step removed from Caine....But there is a point i didnt understand.The pristess of kuejin says they rot instead of burning.according to nod fragment they musnt be affected by sun.maybe only their elders have this speciality.Prince La Croix say they r born from graves instead of being embraced.Maybe after death they r reborn and didnt understand they r embreced while they r alive....u know there is an artifact named Alamut's key in game and the castle Alamut is 2 km away from my home.i am from Turkey and in our history the Alamut castle were the base of asasains who slayed our sultans.the leader was Hassan Sabbath and their man used some kind of leaf named hashas (has a an effect like drugs) before assanitions and they r called Hashasins after that time.dont u think there is a similarity between hashasins and the clan Assamite.
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pennypincher
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The KoE are not the progeny of the Second Generation, thats the Antedeluvians, the thrid generation vampires who rose up and slew the members of the second generation, the KoE are a totaly seperate entity. Dot form:
: Caine is cursed by God
: Caine Embraces some vampires, of whom there were few as three
: Those three embrace others, of whom there were few as 13
: The 13 vampires rise up and slay the three vampires created by Caine
: Caine curses each of the 13 kin-slayer vampires for their crimes
: These curses, and their chosen path in life leads them to become the 13 clans (Brujah, Nosferatue, Malkavian, Ravnos, Ventrue, Torreador, Settite, Lasombra, Capadocian, Tzimisce, Salubri, Gangrel, Assamite)
Alamut is indeed the home of assasins. Clan Assamite (Assamite-assasin. Assasin-Hashasins.. Do the math) makes it's home there. They are Assasins of the highest order, and also blood thirsty diablorists. In fact, for many of their hits they demand the payment of blood.
As for Caine telling his children they will never defeate the KoE... Caine made a LOT of claims in the book of Nod, he was a sad, angry, scared little man. As it turned out, at the end of the World Of Darkness series of games, he was pretty much wrong about the KoE... They died when the antedeluvians rose and the new age came about and the demons returned just like everyone else. *Raises his glass* Heres to killing the KoE, god bless then Antedeluvians!
As for the adult themes of the WOD (World Of Darkness) games. Well yes, some of them are distrubing, and things like WWII genocide camps and such are given slightly supernatural influences that don't really need to be covered here. Suffice to say, the games are meant to leave you feeling a little disturbed by your actions and the actions of the world around you... After all, what good is playing a bloodthirsty vampire that rules the city by night if you don't come away from it feeling a little dirty and creeped out? Ick!
: Caine is cursed by God
: Caine Embraces some vampires, of whom there were few as three
: Those three embrace others, of whom there were few as 13
: The 13 vampires rise up and slay the three vampires created by Caine
: Caine curses each of the 13 kin-slayer vampires for their crimes
: These curses, and their chosen path in life leads them to become the 13 clans (Brujah, Nosferatue, Malkavian, Ravnos, Ventrue, Torreador, Settite, Lasombra, Capadocian, Tzimisce, Salubri, Gangrel, Assamite)
Alamut is indeed the home of assasins. Clan Assamite (Assamite-assasin. Assasin-Hashasins.. Do the math) makes it's home there. They are Assasins of the highest order, and also blood thirsty diablorists. In fact, for many of their hits they demand the payment of blood.
As for Caine telling his children they will never defeate the KoE... Caine made a LOT of claims in the book of Nod, he was a sad, angry, scared little man. As it turned out, at the end of the World Of Darkness series of games, he was pretty much wrong about the KoE... They died when the antedeluvians rose and the new age came about and the demons returned just like everyone else. *Raises his glass* Heres to killing the KoE, god bless then Antedeluvians!
As for the adult themes of the WOD (World Of Darkness) games. Well yes, some of them are distrubing, and things like WWII genocide camps and such are given slightly supernatural influences that don't really need to be covered here. Suffice to say, the games are meant to leave you feeling a little disturbed by your actions and the actions of the world around you... After all, what good is playing a bloodthirsty vampire that rules the city by night if you don't come away from it feeling a little dirty and creeped out? Ick!
I was Diablorised once. I got better.
"Vampires" of the East
I, too, had wondered about the Kindred of the East, and have played the PnP White Wolf Games for many years...At one point I knew someone who owned the books for KOE, and had sort of scanned through them, but hadn't spent a lot of time with them. However, I found this EXCELLENT website, today, which tells some about them... (Enough for fans of Bloodlines, anyhow). This was sparked off by the fact that my Malk character which I'm playing through the game with now (3rd time thru, Ventrue, Tremere, and then Malk), had a conversation with Ming Xiao and suddenly started in with the insight thing which Malk's have and Ming was actually -NERVOUS- suddenly, swearing that "We are not yet in the 6th Age! Do not speak of these things"... And I was like, HUH?? So I found this website. Hope this clears it up & helps you all. Cheers!
http://www.white-wolf.com/Games/Pages/KotEHome.html
I, too, had wondered about the Kindred of the East, and have played the PnP White Wolf Games for many years...At one point I knew someone who owned the books for KOE, and had sort of scanned through them, but hadn't spent a lot of time with them. However, I found this EXCELLENT website, today, which tells some about them... (Enough for fans of Bloodlines, anyhow). This was sparked off by the fact that my Malk character which I'm playing through the game with now (3rd time thru, Ventrue, Tremere, and then Malk), had a conversation with Ming Xiao and suddenly started in with the insight thing which Malk's have and Ming was actually -NERVOUS- suddenly, swearing that "We are not yet in the 6th Age! Do not speak of these things"... And I was like, HUH?? So I found this website. Hope this clears it up & helps you all.
Cheers! http://www.white-wolf.com/Games/Pages/KotEHome.html