Blade or Bullets?

gashlycrumb · Post by **gashlycrumb** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 4:34 pm

Hello,

I have finally made my way to Los Angeles. As I have just finished a quest involving a warehouse, I have to ask... what is your weapon of choice? I have not developed either ranged or melee that much yet, partially out of fear.

I remember one review saying that melee is more powerful than ranged, and that guns work poorly in this game. I know some clans are better than others with certain weapons. Are guns really all that bad? I do miss a lot, but then again my ranged is at 3 I think.

I am more into the story and the rpg aspects of this game, but I fear that if I don't invest in combat, I will be in big trouble! Oh if only I could seduce and persuade my way out of everything! Yes, I am a Toreador!

Any advice would be appreciated.

Lugaru · Post by **Lugaru** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 4:45 pm

Well you can seduce and persuade your way out of more things in this game than in pretty much any other. Yes, there's characters you NEED to kill but if you made it out of the wearhouse then you should be fine with doing that.

Personally with my tremere I got HOOKED to my .45 pistol due to its accuracy, damage and sheer attitude. Heck, at one point I was carrying some REAL hardware (dont wanna spoil what the cool weapons are for you) yet I still found myself reaching for my trusty .45 most of the time. Also his "dark side of the force" type disciplines really helped me thin out the oposition in larger scale fights.

Fists are a great option too... even near the end of the game and despite my abysmally low phisical stats I could still beat up most characters. I think the deal with this game is that some characters get bashed easier and some get cut easier, and when you figure out who is who then your weapon of choice depends a bit more on style (as long as you have at least one "lethal" weapon and one "bashing" weapon).

domovoi · Post by **domovoi** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 4:47 pm

hmm well i picked a Toreador through my game and apart from only loosing alot of humanity if you dont do something right... just go for anything with them... however:

Gangrel: Melee (Blood Magic is also good when you turn into a wolf..)

Brujah: Melee

Toreador: Melee or Ranged

Malkavian: Melee or Ranged (i would surggest Blood magic then Melee)

Nosferatu: Blood Magic, Ranged or Melee

Tremere: Blood Magic

Ventrue: Melee or Ranged

From my experence of reading the book of nod and from the previous game, that should be about right... have fun and choose the right vampire for you

Bucky · Post by **Bucky** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 4:55 pm

When yoy say "Blood Magic" are you talking about Disciplines? Blood Magic is a specific type of Discipline called Thaumaturgy tht is unique (at least in Bloodlines) to Clan Tremere.

Deidre · Post by **Deidre** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 5:21 pm

I've done well with balanced combat skills, usually Melee just ahead of Ranged.

The trick is knowing when to use which skill. Ranged is handy for wounding opponents that can't reach you or when they are approaching you. Though sometimes heavy damage ranged weapons are handy close up, only to switch to melee when it is time to reload.

Belials and Headrunners, I always use ranged. Single human opponents, I hit them a couple times with melee then drain them dry.

Most blade type melee weapons are fast, so it is a trade off. Can you do more damage quicker with them, or is it better to stand off and shoot. Some opponents are types that run around, where ranged work better.

This is true for most combat situations in many games where you are given choices between melee and ranged weapons. Once you get the feel for which is better in each situation, it becomes second nature on how a fight evolves.

Any good game system provides a mix of situations, so there is never one single 'Best' weapon or way to fight. Bloodlines falls into this category.

Maxinion · Post by **Maxinion** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 7:26 pm

Toreador is really a toss-up. No matter what, max celerity, and if you're ranged, max Auspex, and if you're melee, max Presence. The single most powerful ranged character in the game is a Auspex-Celerity Toreador, keep that in mind. Since you're playing this clan, which really dominates with guns because of Auspex (can you say 33 damage twice a second once you get the Killmatic? Umm... yeah! And that's against Vampires too, so don't worry about those warnings of guns are bad against vamps!), I would recommend going ranged.

Here's the key though: do what YOU want. Don't be afraid! The only skill you NEED in the game is *some* sort of fighting, whether it be melee, brawl, or ranged. The game is ridiculously easy, IMO, no matter how you play, so don't worry, and pick the style that you like. I LOVED my ranged Ventrue (more than my brawl-Protean Gangrel by a lot), so I'm apt to point you to ranged, but do what you want. There's no difference in the end.

Oh, and a final point: ranged weaponry requires cash, and melee really doesn't. If you don't waste money on constant blood packs, you should always have enough money for ammo, but be careful. That's the one and only caveat against ranged, imo.

showoffjp · Post by **showoffjp** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 10:42 pm

though there is a major disadvantage with using ranged weapons against vampires(with soak ratings, 50% less damage, etc), there are still some pretty good guns in the game that can dish out some major damage(plus most of the enemies in the game are not vampires at all). BUT, some of the best weapons are alos melee, and I believe the developers geared the combat more twords that aspect. I say go ranged first from a distance, taking out what you can(espeacially some bosses, avoiding them while nailing them with a powerful gun, or just when sniping), and then going in close with melee, after you have dished out enough damage. This worked perfectly for me, as I never really even got hit that often throughout the game(some bosses didn't even touch me). But again, the decision is yours to make. I myself liked a combo, with slightly more points on melee, since that IS what you will use more(ammo can be a pain too). Cheers!

Yayap · Post by **Yayap** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 10:56 pm

it is good to have a cobonation of of melee and ranged (though i prefer unarmed) i also piced the Toreador and made him a ranged unamed and mixed with lvl 5 celerityhe pritty much undefeatable. yes guns are very healp full

Legend · Post by **Legend** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 3:45 am

There's a time for shooting and a time for rumbling.

Ripe · Post by **Ripe** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 8:03 am

Melee or Ranged

Stealth!!!!!!!

I also play Toreador and with a stealth feat of 8 I managed to Stealth-kill everyone - and I mean everyone - in all final fights (except bosses of course).

Sure it may take some time but...

Well to answer your question: I prefer melee over ranged - with celerity 4/5 and decent strength (there is allways Blood Buff) you can cause real damage and not wory about Soak since bladed weapons (knife, katana, fireax) deal normal damage to vampires.

Maxinion · Post by **Maxinion** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 2:05 pm

I honestly don't see what this talk about soak is about. When I saw a Celerity/Auspex Toreador do 18 damage three times a second with the Steyr to Ventrue in LaCroix's tower, the vampires in Santa Monica, Kuiej Jin and Sabbat (that's 54 damage a second, faster than any melee weapon can deal), all thoughts of soak dropped from my mind. Then add in the 270 damage with a Jamie Su, allowing for an instant kill of anyone in the game instead of a boss.

The idea of a mix is a good one though. If you take both, you'll be able to decide which one you like more as you play. Then when and if you replay, you can focus on the one you enjoy more, etc. Have fun!

gashlycrumb · Post by **gashlycrumb** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 3:01 pm

Wow, excellent responses, thank you!

It sounds like I really do get to enjoy either way with my choices. For the record, I have not been this engrossed in an rpg in a very, very, long time.

I think I will try to level both up accordingly. I hadn't even thought to upgrade my Vampire abilities, as I think I have invested too much into things that help persuasion, seduction, and hacking.

Komissar Charon · Post by **Komissar Charon** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 7:33 pm

The problem with putting points to both melee and ranged is that it chews up experience. You'll have very little left to put into defensive, social, and stealthy areas. I suppose it would be quite powerful, but all you really have to do is put the points to melee or brawl skill. Blood buff handles the rest, and you don't have to pump the 40 XP to get full strength that way.

gashlycrumb · Post by **gashlycrumb** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 6:50 pm

That's a good point. I like the sneaky stealth stuff, so I am thinking now that blade may be the way to go.

Then again, making my way through a hallway full of zombies isn't exactly an opportunity to sneak!

Mr_Manu · Post by **Mr_Manu** » Mon Jan 17, 2005 4:59 pm

Hi,
I 'd tryied both with several caracters :
the last .50 ataumatic is really powerfull a bit more than the katana ...
but it's more fun with blade...
Anyway you need gun to kill the sheriff when it'll star flying !

Maxinion · Post by **Maxinion** » Mon Jan 17, 2005 5:02 pm

That's not true. My Gangrel kicked his arse in Protean form the entire time. You just have to shoot the spotlights at him, and he'll fall to the ground stunned, where you can get ~300 damage in before he gets up.

LaCroix · Post by **LaCroix** » Mon Jan 17, 2005 5:59 pm

[QUOTE=Maxinion]That's not true. My Gangrel kicked his arse in Protean form the entire time. You just have to shoot the spotlights at him, and he'll fall to the ground stunned, where you can get ~300 damage in before he gets up.[/QUOTE]

I hope my Gangrel turns out likes yours. . .

malky · Post by **malky** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 3:42 pm

I'm a Malk (who'da thunk?) and I pretty much live by my trusty knife...mind you, I'm only in Downtown, but still. I like to sneak around and not kill anyone if I dont have to. But, again, the ultimate choice is yours to make.

Blu3)Marine( · Post by **Blu3)Marine(** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 4:05 pm

well... it was said a lot.. but i am goind to repeat it...

NOTHING, and i mean NOTHING can destroy well made ranged toreador

With 13points in ranged weapons, you deal incredible damage and with lvl5 celerity you shoot like 3-4times faster and enemies CANNOT hit you if you play it right, they have no chance at catching you, plus you can dodge bullets

vamps soak means nothing to you because with automatic guns you can empty the whole magazine(with celerity ofcourse) in like ... hmmm.... 1 second... even if 1 bullet does 5 damage... 5*30=150 damage in 1 second plus think of running back all the time and melee guyz can kiss they`re ass goodbye

btw i also recommend to download the 'real guns name' mod which also makes the mac-10 smg useable(still very innacurate but you wont be shooting birds)

termos · Post by **termos** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 6:21 pm

[QUOTE=Blu3)Marine(]well... it was said a lot.. but i am goind to repeat it...

NOTHING, and i mean NOTHING can destroy well made ranged toreador

With 13points in ranged weapons, you deal incredible damage and with lvl5 celerity you shoot like 3-4times faster and enemies CANNOT hit you if you play it right, they have no chance at catching you, plus you can dodge bullets[/QUOTE]
I was wondering if the +3 perception can get your perception above 5. I suppose it should, or Auspex would be the worst discipline ever.

I always get at least brawl 4/melee 5. With tomes (if you sell and buy twice) and Nines, that's easy to get with just 9 XP. Combine this with Blood Buff, and you can have both ranged and melee at the same time.