ESRB - your thoughts

Shai Hulud · Post by **Shai Hulud** » Mon Jan 17, 2005 12:37 pm

I was listening to public radio on my drive to work and they were discussing the impact of the rating system for video games. Although I do not own and Ec "early child" titles I do own titles through the remainder of the system. I know a few of you have children and probably pay more attention to the rating system than I do and I really am just curious if its the game rating or the research you do, as a parent, that dictates whether or not you would allow the puchase of a title.

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Mon Jan 17, 2005 12:44 pm

I am not familiar with this rating system. Seeing your location is Florida, I guess it is something American? Maybe you could describe the rating system more in detail?

In Sweden, where I live, there is an age-based rating system for violence on movies, video games and similar. What I have never been able to understand with the American system, is why the nude body is viewed as potentially harmful for children.

Shai Hulud · Post by **Shai Hulud** » Mon Jan 17, 2005 12:59 pm

[QUOTE=C Elegans]I am not familiar with this rating system. Seeing your location is Florida, I guess it is something American? Maybe you could describe the rating system more in detail?

In Sweden, where I live, there is an age-based rating system for violence on movies, video games and similar. What I have never been able to understand with the American system, is why the nude body is viewed as potentially harmful for children.[/QUOTE]

Sure, this link below will take you to their site. Basically its a rating system of maturity for video games.

www.esrb.org

Sorry, I meant to link it in my thread but I forgot to paste it

jopperm2 · Post by **jopperm2** » Mon Jan 17, 2005 1:25 pm

@ CE, I don't think it is the nude body in general, but reather sexual content that is viewed as harmful by most in the US.

And to answer the question, my daughter is too young for video games, but she really would like to play Morrowind judging by the ferocity she tries to take my controller with.

C Elegans · Post by **C Elegans** » Mon Jan 17, 2005 6:05 pm

Thanks for the link, Shai. I don't have children, but if I had I can assure you that this rating would not influence my decision whether a certain game was suitable for the child or not. Based on the descriptions on their website, it seems that the categories they rate are based on moral values and ideas about what parents may care about, rather than actual facts about what has a potential negative or positive impact on children. There is quite an amount of research done on the effect of videogames, and based on this research (which I can post more about if anyone is interested) it would be of much higher importance to rate games for risk for addiction than many of the variables used by the ESRB system.

To me, the ESRB seems to be more for hysterical, uninformed parents than a real effort to rate games according to variables that make a difference for young people.

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Mon Jan 17, 2005 6:16 pm

My son is just shy of ten, and we tend to ignore ratings and instead screen each game he wants on a case by case basis. If the game is graphically and gratuitously violent we will not rent/buy the game for him. If, on the other hand, the game contains nudity or allusions to drinking alcohol we are not especially concerned. If there is direct or indirect sexual commentary we are generally okay with it, as long as the game is not advocating beating up prostitutes or something similar.
IMO those ratings are quite arbitrary and more than anything else reflect North America's excessively Puritan heritage.

jopperm2 · Post by **jopperm2** » Mon Jan 17, 2005 6:18 pm

I would like to see some of that research, as one day I would like my daughter to enjoy video games as my wife and I have so much. I tend to take the ratings as "How offended would my grandmother be by this game?" It's based on the same traditional American values that the movie and television rating systems are.

Edit: Wow, you kinda beat me too it DW.

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Mon Jan 17, 2005 6:24 pm

[QUOTE=jopperm2]Edit: Wow, you kinda beat me too it DW.

[/QUOTE]
Hmm... fools or great minds?

Seriously, I think most 'rational' parents have much the same approach with these things. The other thing that annoys me about ratings is that they do not take individual variations into account. Different kids can handle different topics at different times.

jopperm2 · Post by **jopperm2** » Mon Jan 17, 2005 6:28 pm

That is true. Every child is different. Also parents tastes may be different. My parents always were more lenient with violence than sex. I think that is the norm in the US(go figure huh?).

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Mon Jan 17, 2005 6:36 pm

[QUOTE=jopperm2]That is true. Every child is different. Also parents tastes may be different. My parents always were more lenient with violence than sex. I think that is the norm in the US(go figure huh?).[/QUOTE]

I think your parents' atttitude is fairly typical for this side of the pond. Perhaps because my background is as much European as Canadian, I've always had trouble grasping how a society can condone explicit violence while placing taboos on human sexuality. To my mind, the former is profoundly destructive, while the latter is (ideally) one of the most natural and beautiful things in the world, ditto with the human body.

The Z · Post by **The Z** » Mon Jan 17, 2005 10:20 pm

Yeah, it's kinda funny how I watched Terminator when I was around five to six years old but didn't know much about sex until I was past the age of ten. I heard so much swearing in films and music when I was younger that I'm surprised every other word coming out my mouth isn't a rude four-letter word. Yet, at my current age, sexuality holds my interest far more then Wesley Snipes slicing vampires in half and drinking blood. I suppose I've been desensitized to violence, but it's not like I'm especially violent by any means.

Anyways, the ESRB rating doesn't mean much in stores. Future Shop and EB will let you purchase any game without ID. I've seen people in their early teens buy 'M' rated games without so much as a squeak from the clerk.

A little quirk: I always thought that 'M' was the highest rating...I've never seen an AO rating on any game...

Rookierookie · Post by **Rookierookie** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 3:28 am

ESRB ratings are useless. In a game, the presence of blood automatically qualifies for an M rating, while the same game minus blood may get a T rating only.

If everyone follows the rules and buy only the games which ESRB says is suitable for their age, the choices of games for teens like me would be reduced by about a third, probably even more if the person in question likes FPS.

Shai Hulud · Post by **Shai Hulud** » Tue Jan 18, 2005 8:43 am

[QUOTE=C Elegans]To me, the ESRB seems to be more for hysterical, uninformed parents than a real effort to rate games according to variables that make a difference for young people.[/QUOTE]

I basically feel the same about the system. However, it is disheartening to see parents not push forth the effort to learn about what their children might be interested in.

[QUOTE=dragon wench]IMO those ratings are quite arbitrary and more than anything else reflect North America's excessively Puritan heritage.[/QUOTE]

very true

[QUOTE=ESRB]U.S. Senator Joseph Lieberman has praised the ESRB Rating system as the "best entertainment rating system" in the U.S.[/QUOTE]

Puritan and Joe Lieberman being related to each other..........noooo~

[QUOTE=The Z]Anyways, the ESRB rating doesn't mean much in stores. Future Shop and EB will let you purchase any game without ID. I've seen people in their early teens buy 'M' rated games without so much as a squeak from the clerk. [/QUOTE]

Sorry, but I would have to disagree on this. It means more to the store than is presented but most of it is behind the scenes, not from the clerk. The system is not manditory but there are no titles in either of those stores, or most retailers, that can be purchased without it. A clerk decides on their own accord when and what they are going to sell.

[QUOTE=Rookierookie]ESRB ratings are useless. In a game, the presence of blood automatically qualifies for an M rating, while the same game minus blood may get a T rating only.

If everyone follows the rules and buy only the games which ESRB says is suitable for their age, the choices of games for teens like me would be reduced by about a third, probably even more if the person in question likes FPS.[/QUOTE]

This isn't really true. The rainbow six titles, which are FPS and have blood did not recieve an M rating until the 3rd installment.

I do agree with the 2nd part of your post. exculuding reducing titles availabe by 1/3 . Less that 11% of the market actually falls at or above the M rating. This leaves 89% of titles available to any teen <17.

Rookierookie · Post by **Rookierookie** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 2:00 am

A part of those are games that, frankly, are cutting it a little close on the word "game"

Kayless · Post by **Kayless** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 5:17 am

[QUOTE=dragon wench]My son is just shy of ten, and we tend to ignore ratings and instead screen each game he wants on a case by case basis. If the game is graphically and gratuitously violent we will not rent/buy the game for him. If, on the other hand, the game contains nudity or allusions to drinking alcohol we are not especially concerned. If there is direct or indirect sexual commentary we are generally okay with it, as long as the game is not advocating beating up prostitutes or something similar.[/QUOTE]
So you'd let your son play the latest Leisure Suit Larry game before you'd let him play, say... the upcoming Legend of Zelda?

Macleod1701 · Post by **Macleod1701** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 5:52 am

I don't have kids yet, (although the old ball and chain says we will at some point eeek) I'm a very open minded guy, was brought up watching horror and Sci - Fi, action, etc films, listened to my Dad's stories from work as a Policeman, dead bodies and the like and lived in a very open household were sex could be easily discussed. My darling girlfriend came from a very similar home and so I'd be willing to let my kids watch or play 'almost' anything they like with th exception of some porn untill their older as it's pathetic, tacky and more comedy than arousing. If they get Nightmares then they'll either not want to watch/play them again or get desensitized like I did. However they will also be brought up with the moral values to know what is right and wrong, just because Hitman wanders about smacking people with axes doesn't mean it's acceptable in normal society.

It's up to parents in the end to instill the correct morals into their children to combat against antisocial behavior, if thats done then theoretically kids could watch anything.

fable · Post by **fable** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 8:39 am

[QUOTE=Rookierookie]ESRB ratings are useless. In a game, the presence of blood automatically qualifies for an M rating, while the same game minus blood may get a T rating only.[/QUOTE]

Aesthetic self-rating systems in general are pretty useless, save as providing a sort of idea to perspective buyers about what generally to expect in matters they usually care little about. Companies that use ratings claim they do it to help the public, but it really has two cynical causes: 1) The companies want to forestall politicians taking potshots at them when parents get upset because little Jimmy, whom they've neglected for most of a decade, has been discovered with hardcore porn and/or a gun. 2) A rating of "mature" might convince pre-adolescents and young teens to buy a game for a covert thrill--the real stuff, ya know?

Personally, I think that any society which regards violence as normal and sex as restricted is itself in bad need of therapy, and sick, sick, sick.

dragon wench · Post by **dragon wench** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:04 am

[QUOTE=Kayless]So you'd let your son play the latest Leisure Suit Larry game before you'd let him play, say... the upcoming Legend of Zelda?

[/QUOTE]

Being unfamiliar with both Leisure Suit Larry and Zelda I can't comment

Seriously, it is not that I'm completely opposed to violence in games. When it comes to my son playing them, however, I object if it is extremely graphic and gratuitous.

For example, much as I dislike Sims (I just find Sims weird), I would rather my son play the more adult-themed versions of that game than something such as Manhunt or GTA.

giles337 · Post by **giles337** » Wed Jan 19, 2005 3:39 pm

Being unfamiliar with both Leisure Suit Larry and Zelda I can't comment

You and Brynn?
*speechless*

Kayless · Post by **Kayless** » Thu Jan 20, 2005 6:22 am

[QUOTE=dragon wench]Being unfamiliar with both Leisure Suit Larry and Zelda I can't comment

[/QUOTE]
Wha?!

I can understand being unfamiliar with the Leisure Suit Larry games but what gamer has never played the Legend of freaking Zelda? Have I somehow crossed into Bizarro World or something?

[QUOTE=giles337]

You and Brynn?
*speechless*[/QUOTE]
Right with ya' buddy. *speechless*