The perfume of the future (spam on subject)

[fable]

This isn't a joke, by the way. It's an article quoting the British weekly, New Scientist:

A SCENT exuded by young women as a subconscious sex attractant has been synthesised for post-menopausal women, who are finding it is luring men in droves, the British weekly New Scientist says.

Forty-four women took part in an experiment to see whether the pheromone - an odour received by heterosexual men as a sign of mating availability - worked for females beyond child-bearing age. Half the group added a chemical copy of the pheromone to their perfume, while the other added a lookalike dummy compound.

None of the participants knew whether they were getting the real ingredient or the fake. For the next six weeks, the women kept diaries. Among the pheromone users, 41 per cent reported they experienced more petting, kissing and affection with partners, compared with 14 per cent among the placebo group. Overall, 68 per cent of the pheromone groups reported increases in at least four "intimate socio-sexual behaviours," such as sex and formal dates. In the placebo group, only 41 per cent reported increases.

The report, carried in next Saturday's New Scientist, is based on a study in a specialist publication, The Journal of Sex Research. The research was carried out by Harvard University's Joan Friebely and Massachusetts doctor Susan Rako. The pheromone's discoverer, biologist Winnifred Cutler, is keeping its identity confidential until patents have been granted for her organisation, the Athena Institute for Women's Wellness Research in Chester Springs, Pennsylvania. The secret odour does not come from the essence of alpine flowers or exotic spices so beloved of perfume ads to create a romantic image: it was isolated from a young woman's armpit sweat.

[oozae]

Why do you write this Fable? My carefully maintained ignorance has been torn away

[Xandax]

I read about this as well in the danish medias.
It is on one level quite frightning that pure chemicals can do this to us - logical, but still frightning.
Granted it seems like a small variance between the placebo and the real group, so maybe it was just a statistically fluke. Even when 40% of the placebo felt an increase it could just as well be that the womens attitude changed and did the effect instead of simply the chemical. But more experiments would have to be performed to varify the result.

However - what I would have loved to know was the male reaction to it. How it affected them, which I see as a much more relevant point, because it is "us" that they try affect

And - I see a large dangerous element in this as well. Next we know rapists really do have a defence in that they "couldn't help themselves"

[Galuf the Dwarf]

I wonder...

Do men exhude a similar chemical signal to women, or is quite different?

Overall, though, I suppose there is FAR more to attraction than pheromone chemistry.

[dragon wench]

@Galuf,
I've wondered as well if women respond similarly to pheromones. Clearly, men believe that women respond to scent, given the amount of male perfumes on the market (or, the industry attempts to suggest it). I know for me, attraction is incredibly complex, and has a lot more to do with personality, creativity, intelligence etc.
Maybe, at least in the way women respond, pheromomes or a similar chemical reaction will amplify a pre-existing interest but not be the prime cause???

@Xan,
I had similar thoughts regrading rape cases when I read the article. That whole argument about men "needing sex," and it simply being a part of their nature has been employed for many centuries in various situations. It is therefore, according to those old doctrines, the responsability of women to ensure they do nothing that "tempts men." Chemical excretion, however, is involuntary. The possible implications in the way this can be exploited are quite disturbing.
Rape cases are already a legal nightmare; *victims* still have their sexual history placed on the table, as though they are the ones on trial.
I shudder to think what these results could do....

[Gwalchmai]

Looks to me like the sample size was way too small to come up with a statistically valid result.


Manufactured scents have never been much of an attractant for me. Historically, hasn't the use of perfumes and colognes principally been a way to cover for a general lack of bathing?

[Luis Antonio]

[QUOTE=Gwalchmai]Looks to me like the sample size was way too small to come up with a statistically valid result.[/QUOTE]

Agreed.

But not surprised, some scientists say that we used to have far more smelling capabilities back when we were living at the caves, so women must have some weapon other than the look to atract men.

The smell of your love by your side in the bed when you wake up... *sigh*

[fable]

I personally think smell is overrated in attracting the opposite sex (or any sex, or cute asexual creatures such as paramecia). It's part of an overall package, which includes the complexities of appearance, voice, spoken content, body language, language, personality, likes, dislikes, backgrouind, etc. For some folks, and in some conditions, smell may be more important, but most of us (I think) transcend the notion of being strongly influenced by smell, alone.

Still, I could be wrong. After all, there's a strong perfume/cologne market out there, and they wouldn't be as popular as it is if there wasn't a ready market. Whether that market is operating on facts or hope is another matter.

[fable]

[QUOTE=oozae]Why do you write this Fable? My carefully maintained ignorance has been torn away [/QUOTE]

Incidentally, penicillin was initially discovered by a scientist who found the tremendous antibiotic qualities in the pus of a woman named Penny. I'm not joking.

[Magrus]

[QUOTE=Fable]I personally think smell is overrated in attracting the opposite sex (or any sex, or cute asexual creatures such as paramecia). It's part of an overall package, which includes the complexities of appearance, voice, spoken content, body language, language, personality, likes, dislikes, backgrouind, etc. For some folks, and in some conditions, smell may be more important, but most of us (I think) transcend the notion of being strongly influenced by smell, alone.[/QUOTE]

I agree. For myself, personality, intelligence and actions are more likely to truly make me attracted and interested in a person than anything else, the rest just helps make my decisions.

Granted, hormones, impulses and even chemical reactions like scent will give an immediate reaction to those around me I do tend to keep a tight leash on my impulses and reason out whats best to do with them. For rape cases, I'm sorry. The majority of my female friends and ex's were rape victims, I've dealt with those situations far too often. I've definately as a man had the urge to jump on quite a few women at points in my life, but reason takes over you and don't act on those urges. Just as when angered you have the urge to pound someone for having hurt you, you don't do so for moral reasons, or fear of punishment for the amoral types. Claiming that you lost control of yourself because of a scent and had to force yourself on a woman wouldn't cut it for me. There is a reason we have a higher thinking process.

I'd also have to say that the chemical reaction goes both ways, I can't see our systems being all that different from other mammals. The scent thing is just like a little red flag saying "I'm here and I need to breed" really, it's just a biological method of ensuring the propogation of a species. Guys would logically give off a scent that attracts women, although I would have to say it would make more sense that this would really only work well if the female was "in heat" so to speak. Otherwise there is no real purpose to the whole thing.

[Luis Antonio]

The only thing I can say is that before your rational side has acted, your irrational/instinctive side has already acted and it is based on your instincts that you'll interact rationally with the person. So, you feel the smell/ see the curves/ are provoked by will result in your next actions.

[dragon wench]

[QUOTE=fable]I personally think smell is overrated in attracting the opposite sex (or any sex, or cute asexual creatures such as paramecia). It's part of an overall package, which includes the complexities of appearance, voice, spoken content, body language, language, personality, likes, dislikes, background, etc. For some folks, and in some conditions, smell may be more important, but most of us (I think) transcend the notion of being strongly influenced by smell, alone.
[/QUOTE]

I completely agree. And I think the fact that so many people fall in love online these days attests to this. Admittedly, love is invested with considerable emotion while sexual attraction or lust has more to do with instinct, but even so the reality of OL relationships, whether they are serious emotional/spiritual attachments or casual cyber encounters throws many questions into the whole notion of attraction and the factors behind it.

Interestingly, friends I have spoken with who have been in OL situations report a heightening of their senses in the absence of smell and touch.

[jopperm2]

I must be weird, I find smell very attractive. I like both commercial fragrances(I use them myself quite a bit ans I like them on women) and the natural fragraces women put out. For some reason women that have been working out, etc. are very attractive to me. It could be more complex than just smell of course. Women who work out generally have a better physique than sedentary women. I do find myself inhaling deeply when women pass me in the halls. I've always done that. Am I that weird?
The rape idea is pretty scary. "Your honor, I ask that you allow the jury to sniff the alleged victims armpits. I think you will find that she was not only asking for it, but begging!" Freaky... And smelly.

[oozae]

I'm gonna stay out of the whole boy-person, girl-person thing. I don't think about these things and never hope to!

[jopperm2]

Probably a good idea if you can help it.

[fable]

[QUOTE=Luis Antonio]The only thing I can say is that before your rational side has acted, your irrational/instinctive side has already acted and it is based on your instincts that you'll interact rationally with the person. So, you feel the smell/ see the curves/ are provoked by will result in your next actions.[/QUOTE]

Luis, I think it's part of developing one's personal integration that you're consciously aware of your subconscious triggers, and don't let them affect you. I remember quite a few years ago when I was at a demo/lecture given by some group of how the human body *always* reacts with certain reflexes in certain situations. I was pulled out of the crowd by the speaker (like an idiot, I went), and she condescendingly described what she was going to do, and physically pushed me in a certain way. My body didn't move. She got an annoyed look on her face as the audience giggled, and she tried again. Again, I didn't respond properly. She then looked at me accusingly and said, "Are you using yoga?" The point was that she'd argued for a mechanistic approach in all situations. Had she said that it was modifiable by conscious intervention, she wouldn't have looked silly. Your mind/body interface is a powerful tool, if you know how to use it correctly.

[oozae]

Usually subconcious is defensive, like blinking when about to get poked or raising hands in front of face etc. Most animals have these subconcious reactions, we have mastered some I guess, but it will be a long time before we are fully in control of our bodies. Humans experiment, learn new things, adapt, thats what makes us dominant. That's how we became smart, but somethings are just ingrained in us, I'm afraid.

[jopperm2]

@fable, that's hilarious. I love it when people show up public speakers.. I have a friend that can fall flat on his face without flinching or bending his knees at all. I have no idea how he does it.

[Shai Hulud]

[QUOTE=fable]This isn't a joke, by the way. It's an article quoting the British weekly, New Scientist:

...41 per cent reported they experienced more petting... [/QUOTE]

Amazing this seemed necessary to report but the age difference, location, and lifestyles did not.

@ dragon wench - I look for basically the same things for attraction, although scent could be mixed into the picture.

We all know many a male have an aura of testosterone making the scent thing instinctive overload.

Hmm, males following females.....Is it possible women will attempt to take over the world with this new scent technology?

[Magrus]

[QUOTE=Shai Hulud]Hmm, males following females.....Is it possible women will attempt to take over the world with this new scent technology?[/QUOTE]

Thats silly, don't most men already follow females around like little puppies anyways? Who says they DON'T own the world and just act otherwise to fool us?