The story of the apple yard (no spam)

Rookierookie · Post by **Rookierookie** » Sat Feb 19, 2005 9:20 pm

This is something I read in a magazine and thought I would share it with you. Article has been translated modified.

Once upon a time, there was a rich merchant who had an apple yard near a certain town. For a while there was nothing wrong, but as the apple yard and the town grew, the guards were no longer able to watch over the entire yard. The residents of the town began to steal the fruits.

The merchant caught the leader of one of the groups stealing from the yard and successfully sued him. The group disbanded, but after that nothing changed except that the people were acting individually rather than as a group. The merchant thought about catching any of the thieves and sue him, but it is obviously not worth it to pay so much just for an apple. But costs will soar too if he hires more guards, and the merchant can't afford to do that. Yet, if he let the people pick his fruit at will, he will not be free from loss. He is faced with a dilemma - to pay to counter the thieves, or just let them be.

What will you do if you were the merchant?

Maharlika · Post by **Maharlika** » Sat Feb 19, 2005 9:41 pm

If you have to do it once, do it good.

I think the best thing for him to do is to make a permanent fence around his yard such that taking an effort to steal apples isnt really worth it. How about having dogs instead of increasing guards?

fable · Post by **fable** » Sat Feb 19, 2005 9:55 pm

What about subdividing his orchard and renting it out to smaller tenants? Then they would have a stake in its survival, and probably form patrols.

Maharlika · Post by **Maharlika** » Sat Feb 19, 2005 10:09 pm

This one is even better.

[QUOTE=fable]What about subdividing his orchard and renting it out to smaller tenants? Then they would have a stake in its survival, and probably form patrols.[/QUOTE]

If his orchard is really THAT big, then why not? Instead of hiring guards, having some of the residents participate in his business would give him less headache...

...however, if left unchecked or unfair then this reminds me of the "hacienda" system in my country during the time of the Spanish occupation.

fable · Post by **fable** » Sat Feb 19, 2005 10:14 pm

Agreed, Mah, but's implementation. Rookierookie's just asking us for theories that would work. Leaving the land in the hands of a single overlord is also liable to corruption, with overtones of feudalism. Every system has its potential problems.

Maharlika · Post by **Maharlika** » Sat Feb 19, 2005 10:32 pm

I did understand rookie's intention.

... and I thought that your idea was even better than what I suggested.

I like your suggestion better since it is a more proactive approach rather than reactive (which was my initial suggestion).

I guess maybe there are some other info about the whole situation rookie mentioned that were left unsaid, hence the various possible theories...

If I could go on further, then why not let the merchant set up a cooperative that would make the apple business a major industry for the village? This would generate jobs and income for others. Considering that the merchant initially considered his situation a dilemma, this suggestion would turn the tables to everyone's favor: win-win situation. He still gets to generate income from his orchard, helps others, and gets the goodwill of the rest of the townfolks.

fable · Post by **fable** » Sat Feb 19, 2005 11:04 pm

I like that. I didn't recommend it because I didn't think many orchard owners would regard cooperatives as a reasonable option. But it's my favorite choice.

Here are some other possibilities, meant facetiously:

The Eagle Approach: Declare the thieves are mercenaries trying to take over the countryside starting with your orchard, conquer the local population after killing a good portion of it with the aide of still other mercenaries in your employ, and pay off wealthier merchants to back your expansion.

The Dragon Approach: Point out that long ago the surrounding countryside was entirely yours. Conquer it with the aid of those you inspire through owning an equal share of the orchard, and then turn the orchard over to private entrepeneurs who must pay high taxes that go into your coffers. Send the people to loyalty classes if they complain.

Vicsun · Post by **Vicsun** » Sun Feb 20, 2005 8:35 am

Murder any thieves you catch in the act, along with a few you only suspect, and impale their heads on the fence to serve as a warning to others.

Venoms · Post by **Venoms** » Sun Feb 20, 2005 4:06 pm

Apple thieves

I KINDA agree with viscun. but not that extent. Give the threat of thives will be shot on site deal, and enforce it for like a good month. Fear will drive idiots away, theres few people who would literally risk thier lives for an apple or two. Only extra cost there is a gun, ammo and a sign and paint.

Rookierookie · Post by **Rookierookie** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 7:17 am

In fact, the apple yard isn't a very good analogy. For example, while in this case the threat of death is sufficient, in the case where this was supposed to reflect, it's not practical. This refers to P2P piracy.

Go figure.

Wrath-Of-Egg · Post by **Wrath-Of-Egg** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 8:19 am

Umm.. right.. Piracy is bad thing.. but still we need better games.

Brynn · Post by **Brynn** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 8:23 am

I'd lower the price of the apple to a limit that's still profitable for me, but cheap enough for the peasants to afford - there's a price at which they'll think that it's worth to pay and avoid the risk of being caught. Maybe...

jopperm2 · Post by **jopperm2** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 1:58 pm

I like Vic's idea, but of course, they tried to do that with P2P and it's just too big an orchard..

Vicsun · Post by **Vicsun** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 4:57 pm

Venoms wrote:viscun

God damn it

In fact, the apple yard isn't a very good analogy. For example, while in this case the threat of death is sufficient, in the case where this was supposed to reflect, it's not practical. This refers to P2P piracy.

This is a horrible analogy.

An apple that is stolen from the garden is an apple missing from that garden. Physically. Missing. Once it's missing it can't be sold. That's the definition of theft.
A file copied is... a file that is copied. It replicates. After I replicate a file it is still on the original hard drive. Potentially lost revenue ≠ stealing.

Funnily enough though, anti-piracy groups are doing exactly what I suggested. Suing a few while making a big fuss to scare everyone else away. I guess the analogy wasn't that horrible in what it was trying to achieve.

T'lainya · Post by **T'lainya** » Mon Feb 21, 2005 5:32 pm

[QUOTE=Wrath-Of-Egg]Umm.. right.. Piracy is bad thing.. but still we need better games.[/QUOTE]
Maybe you should clarify your statement Wrath..are you endorsing piracy or saying that better games would make more people buy them legally? Remember that endorsement of piracy isstrongly frowned on at GB

oozae · Post by **oozae** » Tue Feb 22, 2005 1:06 am

[QUOTE=Vicsun]An apple that is stolen from the garden is an apple missing from that garden. Physically. Missing. Once it's missing it can't be sold. That's the definition of theft.
A file copied is... a file that is copied. It replicates. After I replicate a file it is still on the original hard drive. Potentially lost revenue ≠ stealing.[/QUOTE]Apples=Seeds=Trees=Apples. It may take longer but it is still basically the same thing, right?

Aegis · Post by **Aegis** » Tue Feb 22, 2005 1:09 am

Poison the apple, and watch as theives reap the 'benefits' of their work...

Oh wait... That's kind've evil...

Meh...

Brynn · Post by **Brynn** » Tue Feb 22, 2005 1:49 am

lol

You mean infect all the video games with viruses?

Or, harvest the apple as soon as possible and store it in a safe warehouse (hm, that's onyl for apples, though, wouldn't be easy to work it out in the case of software).

Aegis · Post by **Aegis** » Tue Feb 22, 2005 1:50 am

[QUOTE=Brynn]lol

You mean infect all the video games with viruses?

Or, harvest the apple as soon as possible and store it in a safe warehouse (hm, that's onyl for apples, though, wouldn't be easy to work it out in the case of software).[/QUOTE]
Actually, I'm making an analogy for what some major movie labels are doing these days. A couple choice movies and files are seeded by a parent company, and then using a certain tracker embedded within the encoding, it tracks how many times it's downloaded, and to what IP address', and from there, they move into legal action.

HiRo11er · Post by **HiRo11er** » Tue Feb 22, 2005 2:36 am

So here are my two cents...

I consider there to be two choices. The first choice, and this is what I would do, is to let people take the friggin apples. If you have such a big orchard that your already-existing guards can't control the whole thing, then you've got enough apples. Why not let people eat?
The second choice is, take your apples a step further. If you start producing apple pie, for example, the cost of production will be nothing compared to the increased sales, and you'll make more money. The money lost with a few stolen apples will be nothing compared to your new source of income!

How that relates to software piracy, I have no idea... That's not my area, at all...