fallen paladins and fallen rangers

ammama · Post by **ammama** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 5:49 am

hi ive just started IWD and was wandering-paladins and rangers are kool, but i like EVIL parties. But when i do something bad they always become fallen paladins and fallen rangers. Is this a problem? whats the difference? im so confused...

Raumoheru · Post by **Raumoheru** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 7:41 pm

the point of a paladin is to be the epitome of the true and rightous, not to be evil. if a paladin commits an evil act he is thrown out by his order and loses his special abilities as a paladin until he redeems himself, if he redeems himself.

ammama · Post by **ammama** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 3:52 am

how?

how does he redeem himself and how does he bcome fallen? same wit ranger

Raumoheru · Post by **Raumoheru** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 8:36 am

if a paladin commits an evil act he is thrown out by his order and loses his special abilities as a paladin

thats how he becomes fallen.
in IWD2 i dunno how paladins redeem themselves

ammama · Post by **ammama** » Sun Mar 13, 2005 9:23 am

oh

do fallen paladins get anit-paladin abilities?

Raumoheru · Post by **Raumoheru** » Sun Mar 13, 2005 9:50 am

no the become plain fighters, except they do not get weapon specialization

Aramant · Post by **Aramant** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 9:47 pm

Why would you play an evil paladin in the first place? Aside from the obvious contradiction of being an evil person who focuses on smiting evil, I don't think the Holy Avenger can be used by evil characters. I know there's the paladin class limitation on its use, but in the event that you could be an evil paladin, for argument's sake, I think there's a non-evil limitation it as well.

shift244 · Post by **shift244** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 6:02 pm

A Paladin, by namesake cannot be of any alignment except Lawful Good. Others have already mentioned the reason. The latter DnD edition from Wizard's tho has optional rules setting paladins as the epitome of an extreme alignment, like Choatic Evil... of course the abilities would be different. Doesn't fit everyone's taste tho.

As for the basics, a fallen Palain does indeed become nothing more than a Fighter of the same level sans the Fighter feats. You loose all your Paladin granted abilities.

Check out Neverwinter Nights the Black Guard for an evil avatar of paladin-like class.
You could use editors, then you can technically keep the paladin abilities if you simply chage the alignment. Dunno what that will do to the game tho.... and of course, if you're the role playing type, you can change smite evil to smite good, and abstain from using a certain item... not that you cannot edit that and replace evil wit good.. who that might actually make it not worth while anymore

erm... I have posted then realized that the thread also indicated fallen rangers. You are referring to IWD1, I presume an not IWD2?? As I believe that Rangers are no longer restricted to any Good alignments anymore after the shoft from 2e rules to the 3e rule set..

Erenor · Post by **Erenor** » Thu Apr 07, 2005 11:34 pm

[QUOTE=shift244]erm... I have posted then realized that the thread also indicated fallen rangers. You are referring to IWD1, I presume an not IWD2?? As I believe that Rangers are no longer restricted to any Good alignments anymore after the shoft from 2e rules to the 3e rule set..[/QUOTE]

Yup, gotta love evil rangers...poor Drizzt...

shift244 · Post by **shift244** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 7:12 am

Was it actually noted anywhere that Drizzt is a ranger? Or is it only general concensus? As far as I would agree, he is more Fighter than Ranger, and Guenwhyvar can well be considered a cohort/follower or even a magical item instead of an animal companion.. IF Rangers get animal companions under the 2e ruleset. As for the two scimitars.. I believe that there are rules for Fighters to do that in the 2e, tho I'm not sure about that.

Raumoheru · Post by **Raumoheru** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 9:33 am

look in the manual for his char build, he is a fighter/ranger/barbarian/ and something else

Erenor · Post by **Erenor** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 11:47 am

[QUOTE=shift244]Was it actually noted anywhere that Drizzt is a ranger? Or is it only general concensus? As far as I would agree, he is more Fighter than Ranger, and Guenwhyvar can well be considered a cohort/follower or even a magical item instead of an animal companion.. IF Rangers get animal companions under the 2e ruleset. As for the two scimitars.. I believe that there are rules for Fighters to do that in the 2e, tho I'm not sure about that.[/QUOTE]

I'm just working off of RA Salvatore's books. Drizzt is a whole bag of goodies and whirling death, but if you had to simplify things down a whole lot he's a good ole' ranger.

Aramant · Post by **Aramant** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 12:43 pm

In the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting book for 3rd Edition, Drizzt is a pile of classes and prestige classes, but the ranger class is in there. And the panther thing is a figurine of wondrous power.

shift244 · Post by **shift244** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 10:01 am

I don't have that book..

If I were to stat Drizzt, I would make Gwenhwyvar as a magical item... the figurine of power.. some Barbarian and Ranger levels, but mainly Figher. I'd leave off prestige classes out since reading through all those classes really make me support the generic classes and redo the abilities as feats... since it seems as if new classes are created simply fill in the missing wants, which can be done by mix-matching the "feated abilities".. ah, I'll drop off here. It's IWD not D&D. That's for the wizard's boards..

Aramant · Post by **Aramant** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 12:58 pm

In the novels about Drizzt, I believe the panther is a figurine of wondrous power as well. I haven't read them myself, but someone who has read them has told me that when the panther's spirit is on the Prime Material, she appears as a live panther, and when she's on the spirit plane (my guess would be the Ethereal, but my source said Umbra), she appears as a statuette on the Prime.

Sounds close enough to me.

shift244 · Post by **shift244** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 6:03 pm

I'll black it out in case you want to read it:

By the books, Guenhwyvar is from the Astral Plane. And yes, I think we agree on that it is a magical item.. and the statuette in which Drizzt can summon him (/her?) from is in the wonderous items section of the PHB I believe...

Erenor · Post by **Erenor** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 10:56 pm

[QUOTE=shift244]I'll black it out in case you want to read it:

By the books, Guenhwyvar is from the Astral Plane. And yes, I think we agree on that it is a magical item.. and the statuette in which Drizzt can summon him (/her?) from is in the wonderous items section of the PHB I believe...

[/QUOTE]

The figurine of wondrous power that summons Guenhwyvar is a magical item, but Guenhwyvar herself is a living creature/spirit from the Astral Plane. I'll have to go look at the handbook some more, lol. And as far as things go, Drizzt was around when the early rules were in effect. I suppose now he'd be a variety of weapons master prestige class, ranger, barbarian, fighter, thief, and a lot more things, but most characters created in someones mind don't stick to one of the 3.5 ed rules. Too many classes now that fit so many different things. It's pretty complicated when you get right down to it.

Aramant · Post by **Aramant** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 12:27 am

As a blanket statement, I think it's safe to class him as a ranger.

shift244 · Post by **shift244** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 5:52 pm

... with first favoured enemy as Drow. Hmm...

Erenor · Post by **Erenor** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 12:10 am

[QUOTE=shift244]... with first favoured enemy as Drow. Hmm...

[/QUOTE]

He's been trained to fight against them, so I'd go with that. He's also high enough in levels to have a few more favoured enemies and I think giants, orcs, and goblins come to mind simply from the literature surrounding Drizzt.