What's Mass Shadow Generator?(Possible Spoilers)
What's Mass Shadow Generator?(Possible Spoilers)
I finished the game both ways now (there are two emdings, right?) and have no practical idea of what that tech is suppoped to be - see subj. Anyone?
Cim
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Crunchy in milk
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My understanding of it is a little sketchy too, I seem to recall it was an invention of Bao-Dur's and he has quite the build up of remorse at his involvement. You can get snippets of info about it through dialogue with him (no influence required, just time and levels). Should you begin to slip to the dark side, Bao-Dur will also confront Kreia and ask her to leave, but she measures his opinion of her as evil, against the near destruction of a 'certain planet' under the effects of a huge gravitational device (malachor V) that was employed by Iridonians (Bao-Dur's race).
There is also of course the stupid Remote quest on Malachor its self that goes absolutely nowhere because the majority of the droid side quests where cut before release. Something occurs between HK/G0T0 and the Remote. But you never see this, just G0T0 showing up...
There is also of course the stupid Remote quest on Malachor its self that goes absolutely nowhere because the majority of the droid side quests where cut before release. Something occurs between HK/G0T0 and the Remote. But you never see this, just G0T0 showing up...
Basically (you have to really pay attention to a lot of scene snippets to figure it out, you have to play it a few times), back in the final battle of the Mandalorian Wars, the Exile was commanding the attack on Malachor V, and was supposed to be joined by Revan. Revan's forces were delayed elsewhere, I don't think we find out why.
The tide of battle was working against the Exile and the Mandalorians were close to winning. Bao-Dur comes out with this mass-shadow generator, and as a last resort you order him to activate it, killing everything still on the planet in an instant.
Thats what I gather, although there are still some little niggling points I can't work out. For example, Bao-Dur says it will undo the damage he did at Malachor V. I can't work out what he means by this, whether it is because the "Sith" are entirely destroyed, who appeared as a result of the Mandalorian Wars. Or whether he means he is clearing his conscience or something. Either way its obviously not physical damage.
The tide of battle was working against the Exile and the Mandalorians were close to winning. Bao-Dur comes out with this mass-shadow generator, and as a last resort you order him to activate it, killing everything still on the planet in an instant.
Thats what I gather, although there are still some little niggling points I can't work out. For example, Bao-Dur says it will undo the damage he did at Malachor V. I can't work out what he means by this, whether it is because the "Sith" are entirely destroyed, who appeared as a result of the Mandalorian Wars. Or whether he means he is clearing his conscience or something. Either way its obviously not physical damage.
Trouts are best tickled in muddy waters
Thanks guys, but I knew all of that already. I think I understand the plot significance of generator. That does not answer my question though, i.e. how does that thing work. "Mass" and "generator" imply gravitational maipulation... but shadow? Perhaps it creates "shadow mass", i.e. "fake mass", that results in gravitational collapse of the planet onto itself...
Cim
My hypothesis is that the device somehow enhanced the gravitation of Malachor V, meaning that all the ships in the orbit were instantly pulled down to the surface; some of them the Remote discovers in the game. The Exile and Bao-Dur kept their ship out of harm's reach as they knew what would be coming. Now as far as I now it's physically impossible to create additional gravitation without additional mass, but 1. I am not a physicist, so I'm not sure; 2. it happens in a different universe anyway; and 3. we are told that the exceptional gravitational "tides" of Malachor V made the effect possible, so the device wouldn't have worked anywhere else. "Mass shadows" probably refers to the zone of artificial gravity around the planet (Kreia tells Bao-Dur "There is a planet surrounded by mass shadows"; Tobin says that Darth Nihilus "pulled the ships [of his fleet] out of the mass shadows of Malachor", i.e. saved them from crashing onto the surface).
It seemed to me that when Bao-Dur's holo spoke to his Remote, he varied between ordering it to de-activate and re-activate the MSG. I guess he meant that the re-activation would reverse the gravity effects it had created the first time. When you leave Malachor V in the light side ending, you see the planet's components drifting apart, so the gravity which had kept them together for millennia at least seemed to have lessened considerably. By "undoing the damage" he was probably referring on the one hand to exactly this reversal of the physical effects, but also to the destruction of the planet and the whole Trayus complex with it, which would be his atonement for the mass murder he had executed.
And by the way: I'm sure Revan himself arranged to be "delayed" at the battle of Malachor V. He would not have wanted to personally experience the MSG, knowing what the killing would do to all those Jedi present.
It seemed to me that when Bao-Dur's holo spoke to his Remote, he varied between ordering it to de-activate and re-activate the MSG. I guess he meant that the re-activation would reverse the gravity effects it had created the first time. When you leave Malachor V in the light side ending, you see the planet's components drifting apart, so the gravity which had kept them together for millennia at least seemed to have lessened considerably. By "undoing the damage" he was probably referring on the one hand to exactly this reversal of the physical effects, but also to the destruction of the planet and the whole Trayus complex with it, which would be his atonement for the mass murder he had executed.
And by the way: I'm sure Revan himself arranged to be "delayed" at the battle of Malachor V. He would not have wanted to personally experience the MSG, knowing what the killing would do to all those Jedi present.
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Darth Itchy
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Hmm, I concur more or less... i think i have taken sufficiently many physics classes (more than finger on my hand) to state that artificial gravity as far as we know is bs. Gravity can bend light alright... but not the other way around, i.e. you can't create gravity with energy without creating matter in the process. Perhaps mass shadows refers to created mass, aka min neutron stars or black holes... Anyway, I feel like the matter wasn't explained enough, i.e. Bao Dur pretty much has no dialogue, which was probably cut out... Meh, watcha gonna do.
Cim
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Darth Itchy
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Folks, I think we're missing the point here.
Star Wars, and this goes for all Star Wars, not just KOTOR, makes for great stories, but lousy science fiction. You can't complain about bad physics in a world where people use the Force to move objects. Not to mention things like lightsabers, which (and I don't care what kind of pseudoscience you throw at it) are impossible. Star Wars is about taking fantasy (ie magic) and putting it in space, not like science fiction, which is about taking a look at current societal/technological trends and extrapolating possible outcomes in the future. In a nutshell, don't worry about what the MSG does, just strap yourself in and enjoy the ride.
Star Wars, and this goes for all Star Wars, not just KOTOR, makes for great stories, but lousy science fiction. You can't complain about bad physics in a world where people use the Force to move objects. Not to mention things like lightsabers, which (and I don't care what kind of pseudoscience you throw at it) are impossible. Star Wars is about taking fantasy (ie magic) and putting it in space, not like science fiction, which is about taking a look at current societal/technological trends and extrapolating possible outcomes in the future. In a nutshell, don't worry about what the MSG does, just strap yourself in and enjoy the ride.
You can't fight evil with a macaroni duck.
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Warden Brows
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Re:
In Star Wars, the ability to produce artificial gravity and antigravity is well-established. It's a common feature in most Sci-Fi universes as well. The Interdictor cruiser works in this way, and this is of particular note because it's described as producing "Mass shadows" in hyperspace. Anything of sufficient mass will create a mass shadow in hyperspace, and this mass shadow CAN destroy objects that impact it. This is what Solo was referring to in Episode IV when he says "we could fly right through a star or bounce too close to a supernova. . ." Hyperspace is devoid of physical objects but items that produce enough gravity will manifest themselves as mass shadows.
Hyperdrives have a safety cutoff to prevent collisions with mass shadows, and this is how an Interdictor works, by triggering this cutoff with a focused gravity well in the path of an oncoming ship. Presumably the Mass Shadow Generator did more than that, and created real gravity that crushed the planet and pulled ships near the planet into it. Anything not close enough to be pulled in but not strong enough to escape is still trapped in the gravity well, relatively intact. The original technology may have been for an Interdictor type device (and may have been intended to keep the Mandalorians for escaping), hence the name, but that is not how it was used in this case.
Now, ignoring all these fantastic devices, there is one bit of physics that is quite correct: on the light side ending, you see the planet breaking up and rocks flying out into the ships. This is correct. Imagine twirling a rock on a string, and then cutting the string. The rock will fly out in a straight path. Add to this fact that objects closer to a mass orbit more quickly than objects farther away and you get the ultimate result: when the mass shadow generator's gravity field vanishes, objects closer to the planet fly out faster than objects farther away. This correct from a physics standpoint, and with nothing to restrain them, these objects will collide with slower-moving objects.
In Star Wars, the ability to produce artificial gravity and antigravity is well-established. It's a common feature in most Sci-Fi universes as well. The Interdictor cruiser works in this way, and this is of particular note because it's described as producing "Mass shadows" in hyperspace. Anything of sufficient mass will create a mass shadow in hyperspace, and this mass shadow CAN destroy objects that impact it. This is what Solo was referring to in Episode IV when he says "we could fly right through a star or bounce too close to a supernova. . ." Hyperspace is devoid of physical objects but items that produce enough gravity will manifest themselves as mass shadows.
Hyperdrives have a safety cutoff to prevent collisions with mass shadows, and this is how an Interdictor works, by triggering this cutoff with a focused gravity well in the path of an oncoming ship. Presumably the Mass Shadow Generator did more than that, and created real gravity that crushed the planet and pulled ships near the planet into it. Anything not close enough to be pulled in but not strong enough to escape is still trapped in the gravity well, relatively intact. The original technology may have been for an Interdictor type device (and may have been intended to keep the Mandalorians for escaping), hence the name, but that is not how it was used in this case.
Now, ignoring all these fantastic devices, there is one bit of physics that is quite correct: on the light side ending, you see the planet breaking up and rocks flying out into the ships. This is correct. Imagine twirling a rock on a string, and then cutting the string. The rock will fly out in a straight path. Add to this fact that objects closer to a mass orbit more quickly than objects farther away and you get the ultimate result: when the mass shadow generator's gravity field vanishes, objects closer to the planet fly out faster than objects farther away. This correct from a physics standpoint, and with nothing to restrain them, these objects will collide with slower-moving objects.
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Warden Brows
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[QUOTE=cim]Thanks a lot Warden.
Where did you get all the info about hyperspace besides the movies?[/QUOTE]
It's info from the EU books. That particular information is consistent in all books that deal with it. Once you piece it together it becomes pretty obvious what the Mass Shadow Generator probably was. Effectively, you can't go to hyperspace anywhere around Malachor V.
Where did you get all the info about hyperspace besides the movies?[/QUOTE]
It's info from the EU books. That particular information is consistent in all books that deal with it. Once you piece it together it becomes pretty obvious what the Mass Shadow Generator probably was. Effectively, you can't go to hyperspace anywhere around Malachor V.
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stormcloud
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from what i gathered of the kotor2 ending the generator would lead to the decloaking of the sith ships on malachor v and bring the republic forces in to finish them off. that doesnt explain how it works (see warden et al. above) or what it was actually doing, besides generating a "cloak" against the republic.
"Learn to know the dark side of the Force and you achieve a power greater than any Jedi..."
Stormcloud, while your suggestion is interesting, I find it unlikely due to Bao-Dur feelings about the generator. Why would he feel horrible about activating it if it "just cloaked" the ships? On the other hand, if it did kill people inside the sheeps, then Republic would not have to deal with th ships anymore.
As you can see, the above statements might transform your explanation into a paradox.
Warden, thanks for letting me know, but I'll probably never read these books since I and several people I respect found the written versions of episodes 4,5,6 unacceptable. On the other hand, if you can recommend me a book that you found more than agreeable, I would give SW literature another try.
As you can see, the above statements might transform your explanation into a paradox.
Warden, thanks for letting me know, but I'll probably never read these books since I and several people I respect found the written versions of episodes 4,5,6 unacceptable. On the other hand, if you can recommend me a book that you found more than agreeable, I would give SW literature another try.
Cim
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Brockaine22
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stormcloud
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hi cim.
well its quite possible. i agree that its not explained very well. the reason I went that direction is because there was a LOT of garbage being spouted about where are the sith striking from, where are the sith striking from. It seems like everybody yapped about this (espec. Vrook et al.)
I believed one of the reasons the developers wanted to take us back to Malachor is because that is where the sith were striking from, but it was hidden due to the cloaking device or whatever this thing was/did... hence the need for it to be decloaked.
I'll have to go play the game again and try and make more sense out of it, because I agree, doesnt make too much sense as it is. BTW, wasnt Bao Dur's regret from the first time he used it when he blew up Malachor, and not the second? can't say i'm really sure.
peace.
well its quite possible. i agree that its not explained very well. the reason I went that direction is because there was a LOT of garbage being spouted about where are the sith striking from, where are the sith striking from. It seems like everybody yapped about this (espec. Vrook et al.)
I believed one of the reasons the developers wanted to take us back to Malachor is because that is where the sith were striking from, but it was hidden due to the cloaking device or whatever this thing was/did... hence the need for it to be decloaked.
I'll have to go play the game again and try and make more sense out of it, because I agree, doesnt make too much sense as it is. BTW, wasnt Bao Dur's regret from the first time he used it when he blew up Malachor, and not the second? can't say i'm really sure.
peace.
"Learn to know the dark side of the Force and you achieve a power greater than any Jedi..."
Greetings, Stormcloud.
I think that Warden's explanation is best as of now. While the idea you suggested is definitely interesting I don't think there is direct evidence of its validity (or invalidity for that matter since the silly game is so unfinished). I think that you might be mistinterpreting Vrook's and other jedis' concerns. I believe that "wehre the sith were striking from" phrase referred to the location of their Master, academies, bases of operation etc. I.e. what Kavar, Vrook, and the rest of the band were looking for is basically Malachor 5 and Korriban - the "enlightened" jedi masters didn't guess that relaitvely obvious fact.
If your main chr were told his past at the start of the game, it would not be hard to guess where the sith menace was originating from. This would be especially easy after Atton's and HK's stories about Revan which indicate that he trained assassination squads to hunt/convert jedi and Malachor 5 was his ultimate conversion machine through the power of the death fo thousands... That's my interpretation anyway.
I think that Bao Dur was upset about being part of 1) mass slaugther and of 2) Revan's plan. I am fairly confident that he regrets being at Malchor 5 in the first place as well as doing anythin there, including activation of the generator.
I think that Warden's explanation is best as of now. While the idea you suggested is definitely interesting I don't think there is direct evidence of its validity (or invalidity for that matter since the silly game is so unfinished). I think that you might be mistinterpreting Vrook's and other jedis' concerns. I believe that "wehre the sith were striking from" phrase referred to the location of their Master, academies, bases of operation etc. I.e. what Kavar, Vrook, and the rest of the band were looking for is basically Malachor 5 and Korriban - the "enlightened" jedi masters didn't guess that relaitvely obvious fact.
If your main chr were told his past at the start of the game, it would not be hard to guess where the sith menace was originating from. This would be especially easy after Atton's and HK's stories about Revan which indicate that he trained assassination squads to hunt/convert jedi and Malachor 5 was his ultimate conversion machine through the power of the death fo thousands... That's my interpretation anyway.
I think that Bao Dur was upset about being part of 1) mass slaugther and of 2) Revan's plan. I am fairly confident that he regrets being at Malchor 5 in the first place as well as doing anythin there, including activation of the generator.
Cim
Cim, I completly agree with you that writen versions of epizodes 4,5,6 are bad, but EU covers a lot more than just movies.
If you are interested I could suggest some really good books for you to read:
- Thrawn trilogy (Heir to Empire, Black Storm Rising, Last Comand)
- Jedi Academy trilogy
- I, Jedi - great insight into working of the force
- Thrawn doulogy (Spectre of the Past, Visions of the Future)
- New Jedi Order series (19 books) - excelent storyline, one that restored my faith in George Lucas and his ability to imagine a great storyline that is developed by several writers (it also bring together a lot of unfinised stuff from entire EU)
There are many others (at the begining of every NJO series book you can find a list of everything published) but above are the best. Depending on your personal interest you may want to find a X-Wing series books (I belive it's 8 to date), Han Solo trilogy (his early days, before epizode 4), Corelian trilogy (Han's "homeworld")...
If you are interested I could suggest some really good books for you to read:
- Thrawn trilogy (Heir to Empire, Black Storm Rising, Last Comand)
- Jedi Academy trilogy
- I, Jedi - great insight into working of the force
- Thrawn doulogy (Spectre of the Past, Visions of the Future)
- New Jedi Order series (19 books) - excelent storyline, one that restored my faith in George Lucas and his ability to imagine a great storyline that is developed by several writers (it also bring together a lot of unfinised stuff from entire EU)
There are many others (at the begining of every NJO series book you can find a list of everything published) but above are the best. Depending on your personal interest you may want to find a X-Wing series books (I belive it's 8 to date), Han Solo trilogy (his early days, before epizode 4), Corelian trilogy (Han's "homeworld")...
Ripe, first of all thanks for your unexpected reply.
Even though I am a speedreader (4-10pg/min depending on book. i.e. book/hour), that skill has only increased my "pickiness" about books - I never read anything that I do not consider to be worthy of my time (so sorry if this sounds arrogant
). Therefore, I would appreciate if you could isolate 1-3 books on SW that you believe to be exemplar of the series. If I (in my evershining glory ) find them comparable to the standards of sf I have set for the books I read, I will gladly consider the vast series you suggested.
Once again, thanks.
Even though I am a speedreader (4-10pg/min depending on book. i.e. book/hour), that skill has only increased my "pickiness" about books - I never read anything that I do not consider to be worthy of my time (so sorry if this sounds arrogant
). Therefore, I would appreciate if you could isolate 1-3 books on SW that you believe to be exemplar of the series. If I (in my evershining glory ) find them comparable to the standards of sf I have set for the books I read, I will gladly consider the vast series you suggested.Once again, thanks.
Cim
I wrote it in order you should read them so start with Thrawn trilogy (both Trawn trilogy and doulogy are considered among the best SW novels by fans).
I'm not sure if you will find them comparable with sf standards you set for books you read, but you should find them comparable with SW storyline and feelings you get from watching the original trilogy.
Also IMHO it's major "villain" is one of (if not) the best bad guy(s) in entire SW universe.
Note: I thing that Trawn trilogy (Heir to Empire, Dark Force Rising, Last Comand) were the first EU novels writen and they introduce some characters that are by now considered equal to the movie characters and are used by many other authors.
I'm not sure if you will find them comparable with sf standards you set for books you read, but you should find them comparable with SW storyline and feelings you get from watching the original trilogy.
Also IMHO it's major "villain" is one of (if not) the best bad guy(s) in entire SW universe.
Note: I thing that Trawn trilogy (Heir to Empire, Dark Force Rising, Last Comand) were the first EU novels writen and they introduce some characters that are by now considered equal to the movie characters and are used by many other authors.
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ILija_grOMOVNiK
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I don`t mean to kill everyone`s fun here, but most of STAR WARS stories (mostly in games) are not explained thouroughly simply because all these things might not be actually defined by books so game makers are forced to improvise (poorly) or they just don`t care as long as the game has nice graphics and is sells well