Character Tips (WEAK-SPOILERS mid-end)

Perumummy · Post by **Perumummy** » Sat Mar 26, 2005 2:21 pm

I've gone through this game twice and found several things that would help any character:

At the character creation:
1) You have one set of attributes and one set of skills or talents or knowledges that you can put three dots in (eg Gangrel can start with 3 dots in strength, and three dots in melee). Put the three dots in something you will raise regardless (eg gangrel maxing strength and melee from before). You will save quite a few experience points.

2) Never put any points in Firearms or computer. With a research of 3 (1 Intelligence + 2 scholarship) you can buy 2 firearms manuals and 2 computer manual from Trip at the very beginning to boost both of these to two.

3) I've found the most useless attribute in the game is Dexterity. I've never raised it above one. If I want to sneak about I'll use a Malk or Nos, or blood buff with celerity, trance, etc. (and yes you will still be able to finish the sneaky quests).

4) By extension, the most useless skills are stealth and security. Not investing in security will cost you a little money, but otherwise not affect you. Again for stealth be a Nos. or Malk. if you never want to fight.

5) Get a persuade of 3 in Santa Monica as soon as possible. You will be able to get a lot of money on the beach, telling lies to a naive young vampire.

5) The best stats to raise are Wits (max it) and Dodge (max it). You will be almost invincible against the standard human goon, plus you'll hack like a superstar. Don't raise dodge above one dot until after the Malk. mansion (dodge manual).

Game Tips (spoilers)

1) Get a research of 5 (recommend scholarship of 3, Intelligence of 2). Beckett will give you a bonus to scholarship in the museum if your RESEARCH is less than 5, you might also have to be a Gangrel (not sure about that one).

2) Wait until you've got that persuade of 5 before doing any downtown side quests. You will save cash and humanity and gain a point of Finance from the weopons dealer (must have persuade raised BEFORE negotiating his quest triggered by buying a weopon from him).

3) Boost brawl to 2 before seeing Nines for the first time at the last round. He will "give you some advice" and raise your brawl to 3. Then use the brawling manual (Empire Hotel, with the Russian mafia) to boost your brawl to 4. You've now got a brawl of 4 for the low cost of 0-6 experience.

4) Boost melee only to 3 and then get the melee manual in Muddy's apartment downtown (on floor, Skyline Apartments). It will boost melee to 4 and save you the most experience.

5) Do not kill the Holliwood gargoyle, or do any China Town sidequests until after you get the atifact from the crypts below the Giovani mansion (the one that gives you bounus XP- search side rooms on the first level you encouter zombies, before the door the zombie breaks through, its very hard to see and on the floor). This will net you a whole lot of extra experience.

Final Tips

1) Disciplines are NOT necessary AT ALL. With a maxed wits, dodge, strength and melee. With a high brawl and stamina of 2, you will own all the enemies in the game. Just don't stand still when you fight bosses. (Yes with a blood pack or two even Ming will be your *****)

2) Investigation= nice but ultimately useless.
Stealth= useless
Dexterity= useless
Security=useless

3) Animalism (go pestilence + spectral wolf!!) is more fun and useful than protean : )

4) Don't forget that Beckett will raise animalism or protean by one later in the game if one of them is less than 3 and you are a Gangrel (save 10 XP).

5) If you use the manuals and take the starting tips I've recommened you will be able to create a middling persuasive (cha 2, scholarship 3/ 4 if Gangrel), combat machine (max dodge, wits, melee, brawl and strength) with two disciplines maxed and one discipline at level 1. Who can aslo hack (2 comp, 5 wits). You'll also have a firearms of 3 (2 from Trip + 1 from the guy in the cemetary), a finance of 1 (guy in downtown) and a stealth of 1 (manual in Muddy's Santa Monica Apartment).

P.S.- You need a hacking of 8 to complete the Nos. network quests. Use auspex, or protean to boost your hack or just save 6 XP get the password at the terminal then reload.

6) Gargoyles hate sledgehammers. Tremere will pay $500 for the creature's discreet removal unlike the cheapskate Isaac.

Perumummy · Post by **Perumummy** » Sun Mar 27, 2005 5:28 pm

Forgot to add a few things:

1) Do the FULL tutorial at the beginning for a 2 XP reward.

2) The character I described will likely at least have an additional 10+ XP to play with by the end of the game, especially if its a Gangrel.

and...

3) For people playing the game for the first time and wanting to plan a character before they play, take a look at the freebie points in the above post (books, Beckett, etc) and estimate that by endgame you'll have about 216+ XP (approximately) and by mid-game (entering Hollywood) about 100 XP (approximately)... if you do (and succeed) at most of the side-quests.

Oops... last one

4) If you don't use firearms (maybe even if you do) and invest in brawl, strength, dodge and wits.... finance will also be a useless skill and by extension so will manipulation.

matthew13 · Post by **matthew13** » Sun Mar 27, 2005 7:56 pm

Okay, the above posts make some good points. Before you are done with this game you will have to max either your brawl or melee related skills. Going up against the bosses generally means you can't take the stealthy approach. You will have to go toe-to-toe with a few of your enemies. That said, neither stealth nor security are useless. . .unless your gameplay style leans towards tanks.

I like to use stealth. It isn't necessary. You can go the route mentioned above and handle anything you come across, but I like finesse. It is a gameplay choice, which is why this is a role playing game. . .with the emphasis on role playing.

For example: the Sabbat warehouse. You can go in guns blazing or swords flashing. No problem. But, if you've focused on stealth and dexterity you can also ghost it. It all depends upon your style.

The books and other stat increases mentioned above are worth noting. Also, if you catch Nines before you head off to the Grout mansion (and if you haven't annoyed him) you can get a 1 point increase to melee no matter what your present level.

EvilBelgian · Post by **EvilBelgian** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 3:22 am

As some1 said on this forum somewhere
'Never use the manuals immediatly , sell them first then buy them multiple times'
so

U only need to put 1 point in brawl , then see nines , get the brawling manual, sell it then buy it twice. ( it wont appear in the seller's inventory if u r carrying 1 however)

Hacking is kinda useless 2 since all the passwords are on this site.

When playing a tremere it is better however to kill the gargoyle for strauss (if u have done the plaguebearers for him as well) cause then he will give u a haven in the chantry and a very nice item...

Perumummy · Post by **Perumummy** » Mon Mar 28, 2005 9:42 am

I forgot two last pieces of advice:

1) Blocking is very useful against some of the bosses, i.e.- the shark guy, and the Tzmize warform. If you're melee/ brawl and having trouble with the bosses try it, although it will take a little while to get used to. Blocking is pretty much wasted on your dime a dozen bad guys.

2) Some of the bosses are very large, so if melee or brawl is not cutting it, get in close with the Spazz on full auto, retreat, reload, repeat. Even with a ranged skill of 4 you might be okay.

ILija_grOMOVNiK · Post by **ILija_grOMOVNiK** » Sat Apr 02, 2005 5:19 pm

[QUOTE=matthew13]Okay, the above posts make some good points. Before you are done with this game you will have to max either your brawl or melee related skills. Going up against the bosses generally means you can't take the stealthy approach. You will have to go toe-to-toe with a few of your enemies. That said, neither stealth nor security are useless. . .unless your gameplay style leans towards tanks.

I like to use stealth. It isn't necessary. You can go the route mentioned above and handle anything you come across, but I like finesse. It is a gameplay choice, which is why this is a role playing game. . .with the emphasis on role playing.

For example: the Sabbat warehouse. You can go in guns blazing or swords flashing. No problem. But, if you've focused on stealth and dexterity you can also ghost it. It all depends upon your style.

The books and other stat increases mentioned above are worth noting. Also, if you catch Nines before you head off to the Grout mansion (and if you haven't annoyed him) you can get a 1 point increase to melee no matter what your present level.[/QUOTE]

wrong! wrong! and again: wrong!

books are great for saiving exp. and Nines gives you +1 unarmed only if u are at max lvl2 - if u`r unarmed skill is above 2 he says that you know how to handle yourself and teaches you nothing!

EvilBelgian · Post by **EvilBelgian** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 6:57 am

[QUOTE=ILija_grOMOVNiK]wrong! wrong! and again: wrong!

books are great for saiving exp. and Nines gives you +1 unarmed only if u are at max lvl2 - if u`r unarmed skill is above 2 he says that you know how to handle yourself and teaches you nothing![/QUOTE]

Read it again and u'll notice that it says melee...

silver_frost · Post by **silver_frost** » Wed Apr 06, 2005 4:44 am

Thank god that I had a sudden notion to read the forums after I played the game a bit. Nice going guys, I just realised I majorly screwed up my character sheet. Anyhow, I'm using melee/brawl but I'm thinking of using firearms instead when I restart. Is that a good idea? I read somewhere that firearms kinda suck and expensive to maintain. And if I do stick to firearms, should I go for a clan with high mental like Malk? I know it sounds sad but I'm gonna stick to the books for my first run through the game.

Johnny · Post by **Johnny** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 2:14 pm

If you use the zoom function on the sniper rifle the sight drifts a lot unless you have a really, really good ranged skill. If you do invest the XP it might be worth it because when zoomed you can get one-shot kills. Otherwise, don't bother boosting firearms beyond what the various in-game manuals can give you.

I think firearms are best for clans with the Celerity discipline (like Toreadors), because this can put you well out of range of melee opponents.

Mavrik · Post by **Mavrik** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 8:43 pm

as a locksmith, I thrived on Dex, sorry to those that think its a waste but I used it on every locked door I came across.

themarxx · Post by **themarxx** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 8:51 pm

Maximising your precious XP

[QUOTE=Perumummy]I've gone through this game twice and found several things that would help any character:

At the character creation:

2) Never put any points in Firearms or computer. With a research of 3 (1 Intelligence + 2 scholarship) you can buy 2 firearms manuals and 2 computer manual from Trip at the very beginning to boost both of these to two.

Agreed. Don't put any points in Dodge and Stealth either. Stealth Manual is just across the hallway. You should be able to find a Dodge manual at the Grout mission which you can sell and buy back from any shop. Effectively saving you 12 XP for a measely $70plu

3) I've found the most useless attribute in the game is Dexterity. I've never raised it above one. If I want to sneak about I'll use a Malk or Nos, or blood buff with celerity, trance, etc. (and yes you will still be able to finish the sneaky quests).

On the most useless Attribute, it has gotta be Manipulate. I have yet to find the special dialogue options that arise from a high haggle skill and the cost savings are not worth jumping about

The most useless feat would have to be investigation. Troika should have included items that can ONLY be found if inspection was high enough.

5) Get a persuade of 3 in Santa Monica as soon as possible. You will be able to get a lot of money on the beach, telling lies to a naive young vampire.

Persuasion is a good thing to have. No harm increasing your intelligence (Intimidation feat) early also so that you can squeeze people for money. Like Dr Malcolm, the dude standing across the Hospital. Also, if you have XP to spare, up your perception to 3 so that you can get 2XP off Knox. Besides, Percep helps your ranged feat, so no loss. It definitely pays more to have higher intimidate and persuasion right at the beginning of the game

Game Tips (spoilers)

1) Get a research of 5 (recommend scholarship of 3, Intelligence of 2). Beckett will give you a bonus to scholarship in the museum if your RESEARCH is less than 5, you might also have to be a Gangrel (not sure about that one).

Keep your scholarship at 2 points. Beckett will raise it to 3 during the Museum quest even if you are not Gangrel. However, if your scholarship is 3 and above, you won't get an increase. save 6XP

3) Boost brawl to 2 before seeing Nines for the first time at the last round. He will "give you some advice" and raise your brawl to 3. Then use the brawling manual (Empire Hotel, with the Russian mafia) to boost your brawl to 4. You've now got a brawl of 4 for the low cost of 0-6 experience.

Put one point in Brawl. Get Nines to up it to 2. Use the brawl manual at empire hotel to raise it to 3 and 4 repectively. Cost - 3XP $100 plus (sell and buy back) .

4) Boost melee only to 3 and then get the melee manual in Muddy's apartment downtown (on floor, Skyline Apartments). It will boost melee to 4 and save you the most experience.

Put one point in Melee. After the museum mission, go see Nines. He will raise your Melee stat by one point. Grab the Kendo manual from the Skyline apartment 2. increase melee to 3 and 4 by (sell and buy back). Melee can be increased to 5 with the final melee manual at the FU syndicate (lockpick 10 required, dex not so useless after all). Cost - 3XP

5) Do not kill the Holliwood gargoyle, or do any China Town sidequests until after you get the atifact from the crypts below the Giovani mansion (the one that gives you bounus XP- search side rooms on the first level you encouter zombies, before the door the zombie breaks through, its very hard to see and on the floor). This will net you a whole lot of extra experience.

Agreed. Complete the main quest until you get the Saulocept item that will add 1 XP everytime you earn at least 3. Then go back after all those side quests.
Exceptions: complete the Thinblood quest before leaving Santa Monica.
GET (not complete) the Sharkdemon quest in Chinatown before going to the Giovanni mansion. (tip: make sure the little girl is waiting at the fishmongers) Bonus XP: approximately 12

Increasing Firearms:
Use the manuals to increase it to 2 points. Romero will raise it to 3 for you at the Hollywood Graveyard. spend 9 XP to increase it to 4 points and use the manual from Leopold society to max it out (research 10 required)

Using the high-level manuals (increase to 5points)
Dodge 2 (res 8)
Firearms (res 10)
Melee (res 9)
Computer (res 9)

These 4 Manuals will save you a total of 48XP

Would suggest that you raise research to 9 (so you can use the comp, dodge and melee manuals) - 5 scholarship, 4 intelligence.

Instead of plowing 16XP to get research 10, spend 12 XP to up your firearms from 4 to 5, saving 4XP. Sell the damn book.

Mister_T · Post by **Mister_T** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 7:22 am

[QUOTE=themarxx]

Game Tips (spoilers)

Keep your scholarship at 2 points. Beckett will raise it to 3 during the Museum quest even if you are not Gangrel. However, if your scholarship is 3 and above, you won't get an increase. save 6XP

Well I just discovered that you can get an increase up to 5 in scholarship at the museum. I kept my scholarship at 2 until I got to the museum, but I had some XP to spend so I experimented. I added the XP to scholarship up to 4 and Beckett still gave me 1 extrapoint to scholarship. I played with the 1.2 patch and my character had Intelligence 4,Perception 3 and Wits 2 at the time...

Put one point in Melee. After the museum mission, go see Nines. He will raise your Melee stat by one point. Grab the Kendo manual from the Skyline apartment 2. increase melee to 3 and 4 by (sell and buy back). Melee can be increased to 5 with the final melee manual at the FU syndicate (lockpick 10 required, dex not so useless after all). Cost - 3XP

You can get the melee increase after the Elizabeth Dane mission.I'm not sure if you can get it sooner, but Nines is not around after the Grout Mansion mission remember

... because of the bloodhunt.

Blazeaway · Post by **Blazeaway** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 9:32 am

Harmless reminder.

Put one point in Melee. After the museum mission, go see Nines. He will raise your Melee stat by one point. Grab the Kendo manual from the Skyline apartment 2. increase melee to 3 and 4 by (sell and buy back). Melee can be increased to 5 with the final melee manual at the FU syndicate (lockpick 10 required, dex not so useless after all). Cost - 3XP

You can get the melee increase after the Elizabeth Dane mission.I'm not sure if you can get it sooner, but Nines is not around after the Grout Mansion mission remember ... because of the bloodhunt.

Who said anything about the Grout Mansion? That says clearly in your own post "After the musuem mission."

Upon closer inspection i see where the Grout Mansion reprimand comes from but I also notice that it says see Nines before the Grout Mansion, probably due to the bloodhunt.

Directed to Mister_T in defense of themarxx and perumummy.
Unless of course you were just reminding people not to wait too long to visit Nines for that extra melee point... In which case ignore this.

Yay first post. Kind of a bugger that it was a reprimand... and a confused one after all that...

yrthwyndandfyre · Post by **yrthwyndandfyre** » Tue Jul 04, 2006 6:46 pm

Alternate Reality - heavy on the SPOILERS

I always play Tremere, merely because they're putatively the hardest to play (although all have their weaknesses).

Now, given that I never have Obfuscate, with a high sneak you are all but invisible. To everybody. Sneak works just fine against high level bosses, if you know what you are doing, and you have the nerve.

Now, for firearms, with a firearms skill of 10, using the scope, you can pop Bach in about five shots, and the Chiroperan Behemoth in about 10. Ming in warform is probably the hardest, but highly doable.

With high sneak, you can take the Chiropteran Behemoth with nothing more than the .44 magnum, and I have taken it with the 9mm.

With Andrei (warform or not), I never use anything higher than the .44 magnum combined with purge. If I don't have the .44, the 9mm works just fine - it just takes a bit longer. The .38 will work, too.

Aside from a few notable exceptions; the Chang Brothers, Bach, Andrei, and the Behemoth, I seldom have any reason to use ranged weapons at all against anything but Zombies wherever they may be, the Plaguebearers, Andrei's larger creations, and when escaping from the Warehouse (the need for speed). In fact, by the time I get to Ming, I'm usually maxed out on ammo for every ranged weapon I'm carrying. Yes, I kill Ming weaponless. I usually make use of the Flame-thrower during the Blood hunt, but that is of convenience, not necessity. I do Venture Tower with nothing more than blades up to the Behemoth.

The serial killer? I beat him to death. Up until Andrei, I do the Hollowbrook with nothing more than blades. I do the temple with nothing more than blades. Up until Bach, I do the monastery with nothing more than blades. I do the Parkade weaponless. I do Grout's mansion weaponless until the escape at the end. I do Hollywood and Chinatown in their entirety with nothing more than blades, with the single exception of Zygaena.

It's not a good idea to dismiss any skill out of hand simply because you in particular have not found a good way to use them. I've been playing this game for going on a year and a half. For a year of that time I was playing a game a week. I just love sneaking, and I'll put my Tremere against your best Gangrel, Ventrue, Nosferatu, Toreador or Brujah and give you five to one.

It has less to do with outright sweeping utility than it does with what you intend to do with it, and how you play. The original recommendations in this thread are not meritless. If your favored style of play is do a full-on Rambo, then that's probably a pretty good way to go. I came into this game from having played full-on Rambo and tried in VTMB, but here, I'm a vampire. I play it as a vampire, and am much happier for it.

Oh yes - and she's a she.

Teolant · Post by **Teolant** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 6:55 am

I've noticed some of your opinions, and felt like I was in the wrong for making a ranged Gangrel, but realising his stats now, I know I've made the right choice.

I now, at the point I'm stuck on, have 10 to Melee (Note, I have a Talisman that increases it by 1), 10 to Ranged (Ex-Cop background) and 10 to Defense (Note, I have a Talisman that increases it by 1). Has anyone else got all those at 10 before at the same time? Do I just feel strong, but really, everyone does it every time they play through?

Oh! My 2 cents: If you want the easiest way to play through it, get 10 to Ranged and 10 to Melee, it helps. I can tell you now, that when you want a Flesh-crafter dead (You know, near the end, for LaCroix) A Spaz shotgun on full auto works MUCH better then the Tal blade.

yrthwyndandfyre · Post by **yrthwyndandfyre** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 5:32 pm

[QUOTE=Teolant]Oh! My 2 cents: If you want the easiest way to play through it, get 10 to Ranged and 10 to Melee, it helps. I can tell you now, that when you want a Flesh-crafter dead (You know, near the end, for LaCroix) A Spaz shotgun on full auto works MUCH better then the Tal blade.[/QUOTE]

True, but, "No matter how powerful the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously crimp his style."

Teolant · Post by **Teolant** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 8:55 pm

Do you mean it is possible to sneak up on him? Or am I more Malkavian than man ...

I've never found it easy to sneak, maybe because I always see the worst bits (Like Hallowbrook) and don't see the possibilitiy for sneaking, even at level 10. NOTE: The highest I've ever had sneaking on was about 4, so I'm talking out of ignorance and what I percieve to be true.

yrthwyndandfyre · Post by **yrthwyndandfyre** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 9:29 pm

[QUOTE=Teolant]Do you mean it is possible to sneak up on him? Or am I more Malkavian than man ...

I've never found it easy to sneak, maybe because I always see the worst bits (Like Hallowbrook) and don't see the possibilitiy for sneaking, even at level 10. NOTE: The highest I've ever had sneaking on was about 4, so I'm talking out of ignorance and what I percieve to be true.[/QUOTE]

Sneaking is level-dependent, as is everything else, but it doesn't depend entirely on level. Position. Lighting, Approach. None of these things enhance the sneaking feat, but they are all important when sneaking. I've gone down the long hall in the Hallowbrook where there are four heavily armed vampires standing in wait facing me, and assassinated them *all* with sneak. Nary a shot fired. From the front. With a blade or bare hands. Just because you can see them doesn't mean that they can see you. The more important question is do you have enough nerve to test your skill, and actually walk up to a heavily armed vampire in the Hollowbrook, and kill it head on with sneak?

It's not easy, I grant you that. It's really hard. Having said that, it's also doable. Watch the proximity meter on the left. It's your friend. It will tell you when you've gone too far. Just don't let the visual of a powerful vampire standing right in front of you with a shotgun freak you out, and consider that if they don't seem to see you, they probably don't.

It takes a lot of nerve to hold your composure under those conditions, but if you do, you *can* take them. In really nasty ways. I can make a video, if you'd like.

mr_sir · Post by **mr_sir** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 10:30 pm

[QUOTE=Teolant]I've never found it easy to sneak, maybe because I always see the worst bits (Like Hallowbrook) and don't see the possibilitiy for sneaking, even at level 10. NOTE: The highest I've ever had sneaking on was about 4, so I'm talking out of ignorance and what I percieve to be true.[/QUOTE]

Like yourself, I was never really a fan of sneaking. However, after playing with a character with obfuscate I have realised jsut how useful sneaking around can be, although it is difficult at times. I think the effectiveness of a sneaking character depends a lot on your playing style, but if you do plan on using it then I'd suggest on using sneaking at a level a lot higher than 4 (which in my opinion is pretty useless - although this could be more to do with the fact that I prefer just walking in as a Tremere with blood shield, a fire axe and a variety of high level disciplines lol). As a Gangrel, I found that war form is very useful in situations like the Hollowbrook Hotel.

Lestat · Post by **Lestat** » Thu Jul 06, 2006 11:47 pm

One of the nicest/nastiest disciplines is "communion of the bloodsuckers" (Animalism 4)
Not only a good distance weapon, but also certain to eliminate almost 100 % of opposing troops?