I need some party creation advise !

[Painflux]

Ok... this is the first time I am going to play through BG2, but i have read a lot about it, and theese are the NPC's that i wish to have in my party:

- Valygar as my archer, using a few spells
- Anomen as my fighter and cleric (main healer)
- Keldorn as one o' my tanks
- Minsc as a tank, and maybe also an archer
- Nalia as my thief and mage (main spellcaster

As my PC i think I'll choose either a Kensai or a Wizard Slayer, but i don't know which one will fit best into my party. I'm also worried that a Kensai won't be able to lower his AC enough to become a valuable melee fighter / tank. Plz give me a little advise here... I need it

Btw... I'll might choose to join up with Sarevok in ToB...

[Faust]

[QUOTE=Painflux]Ok... this is the first time I am going to play through BG2, but i have read a lot about it, and theese are the NPC's that i wish to have in my party:

- Valygar as my archer, using a few spells
- Anomen as my fighter and cleric (main healer)
- Keldorn as one o' my tanks
- Minsc as a tank, and maybe also an archer
- Nalia as my thief and mage (main spellcaster

As my PC i think I'll choose either a Kensai or a Wizard Slayer, but i don't know which one will fit best into my party. I'm also worried that a Kensai won't be able to lower his AC enough to become a valuable melee fighter / tank. Plz give me a little advise here... I need it

Btw... I'll might choose to join up with Sarevok in ToB...[/QUOTE]

You might be better served to start your own thread.

Some thoughts - you might want to, eventually, plan on using Imoen instead of Nalia. They are very similar, and Imoen is developed much more thoroughly in terms of banters and personality.

In that same vein, male PCs can have romances with either Aerie, Jaheira, or Viconia. If you're a female PC you can have a romance with Anomen. These are very interesting dimensions to the game,and well worth your time the first time through. So if you're playing a male PC, you might add one of the three afore mentioned figures into your party.

As far as your PC goes, with as many tanks as you have, a Kensai might be a better fit. You'll want someone more clearly focused on damage dealing. If you find tankage a problem, Minsc/Valygar/Keldorn/Sarevok can soak up the damage if played properly. Your PC should be relatively effective as at least a secondary tank, though. Likewise, if you wanted to optimize your power you could dual class the Kensai into either a mage or theif, somewhere after level 10. Doing so makes for a very powerful character build (though certainly on power gamer levels).

Wizard Slayers are a solid class, but Keldorn will be pretty effective against magic users, as is and it might be somewhat redundant.

[Luis Antonio]

Wow! You sure do like hack and slashing...

OK:

Dont keep Nalia as a thief. She is a good and decent spellcaster, but not a good thief. Try joining with Jan Jansen, or keeping with Yoshimo till you reach Imoen again. you wont regret having good thieves around your party.

Now I wouldnt keep that many slashers on my party, except if I'd play some really sensitive character - like a mage without constitution. But you seem to be neglecting spellcasting habilities, or you dont want to play your character as a spellcaster, perhaps... so... Try only to change a bit, like this:

Use a Bard as NPC (Blade)
Use a Swashbuckler as NPC

Replace, as you wish, Minsc or Valygar. You have far too many tanks. Try having another cleric, or a good spellcaster. I'd have, in their place, Jaheira (druid, helluva good spellcaster) or Aerie (helluvagood spellcaster and healer). With both you may have romances, the real fun of the game.

And good luck!

[Painflux]

Thank you 4 the answers

After a bit o' thinking I think my party is going to look like this:

- PC (Kensai)
- Valygar
- Keldorn
- Minsc
- Imoen
- Aerie

Not quite as "tanky" as before... hopefullt this party will be a bit more fun to play then just a bunch of tanks !

[Erenor]

[QUOTE=Painflux]Thank you 4 the answers

After a bit o' thinking I think my party is going to look like this:

- PC (Kensai)
- Valygar
- Keldorn
- Minsc
- Imoen
- Aerie

Not quite as "tanky" as before... hopefullt this party will be a bit more fun to play then just a bunch of tanks ! [/QUOTE]

Well, now you've got a good mix. And there is nothing wrong with having loads of melee fighters and fewer spellcasters. Most people either prefer using more muscle or more magic, because it's a lot harder to concentrate on both at the same time. Personally, I prefer the muscle, so your first party looked fine to me. Your only problem contains a spoiler, so read here if you wish to hear a suggestion: Imoen gets taken away from you early on, so you're going to need a thief in your party while she's gone. You can pick up Yoshimo for a while, because he's available early, until you can get Imoen back, or you can give Jan Jansen a try. Jan is a fun NPC. Stay away from Nalia, because she's very mediocre in this game. Jan or Yoshimo are better choices while you wait for Imoen.

[Faust]

[QUOTE=Erenor]Your only problem contains a spoiler, so read here if you wish to hear a suggestion: Imoen gets taken away from you early on, so you're going to need a thief in your party while she's gone. You can pick up Yoshimo for a while, because he's available early, until you can get Imoen back, or you can give Jan Jansen a try. Jan is a fun NPC. Stay away from Nalia, because she's very mediocre in this game. Jan or Yoshimo are better choices while you wait for Imoen.[/QUOTE]
From the Spoiler...

Nalia is good enough to get the job done, thieving skills-wise. Just keep some potions of master thievery and/or knock spells handy for difficult situations. Personally, I find Jan or Yoshimo more entertaining. though. I really never felt Nalia was a very well developed NPC, at least compared to many.

[sologdin]

you may wanna dual that kensai to thief; then you needn't get any of the others, who all have problems as thieves. backstabs with celestial fury are the bomb, yo.

if you dual the kensai to mage, then being a tank is really really easy - stoneskin/mirror image/etc plus some good weapons is one of the premier tactics in the game, though some think it is munchkinish.

[Phantom Lord]

The biggest problem with party creation is to find someone for the thief job imho.

My advice therefore would be to do the job yourself. Play multiclass F/T or dual the Kensai.

My best (concerning fun, identification with PC etc) game so far was the one where I played an evil halfling F/T and the reason for the fun was simple: The character you usually most identify with and whom you move preferably is the PC. And if the PC has the thief job, he's got a lot to do in the game. Exploring, spying, unlocking, untrapping, backstabbing, etc. He can use all the great items later in the game because he gets UAI. Also, rest assured he's gonna have lots of firepower if you develop him towards that. Let him use quarterstaff and longbow, for example, and you'll find that he is quite a one man army.

[Cuchulain82]

[QUOTE=Phantom Lord]The biggest problem with party creation is to find someone for the thief job imho.

My advice therefore would be to do the job yourself. Play multiclass F/T or dual the Kensai.

My best (concerning fun, identification with PC etc) game so far was the one where I played an evil halfling F/T and the reason for the fun was simple: The character you usually most identify with and whom you move preferably is the PC. And if the PC has the thief job, he's got a lot to do in the game. Exploring, spying, unlocking, untrapping, backstabbing, etc. He can use all the great items later in the game because he gets UAI. Also, rest assured he's gonna have lots of firepower if you develop him towards that. Let him use quarterstaff and longbow, for example, and you'll find that he is quite a one man army.[/QUOTE]
This is great advice- the F/Th is the most dynamic class in the game. I've posted this many times before, but I'm glad someone else thinks so too. If you dual your Kensai when he starts to get boring (lvl. 9,12,13, or 15), the theif makes things interesting again. Then when you get UAI, your PC is destruction on 2 legs.

[Tequila]

IMHO, your original party was better I've never liked Aerie, she can die to one errant AOE spell and can't cast enough of the high level mage and cleric spells.

Nalia is very underrated. She is the best mage you can get in the early game until Edwin. She also has 80 Find Traps which is plenty to disarm most traps, if not swallow a potion of master thievery. She has 60 Open Locks, 85 with the Ring of Lock Picks. What she can't pick open she can just cast Knock. She is available early and has 18 dex so can contribute with a short bow.

Anomen is a good backup fighter and when he becomes knighted he becomes a better cleric. He has a good amount of HP to boot. The downside is that he is an extremely annoying person.

I would dump Minsc and either pickup Jaheira or Korgan. Korgan, Keldorn and your Kensai will rip through things fast. Jaheira gives you some great druid magic with decent melee and backup healing and pets. Either way I prefer them to Minsc.

Keep Keldorn. His dispel at 2x is great for stripping high level mages bare naked. His dex is low but can be fixed with an item later on.

Also agree with the other two posters: F/T is a great protagonist choice especially long-term in ToB because you get both fighter and thief HLAs. The F/T is the most fun I've had as a protagonist and was my first ever to complete the game all the way from SoA to ToB. A chaotic evil Half-orc F/T is so fun to roleplay

[Painflux]

Thank you so much for all the great answers!

I'm really not quite sure of as how I'm going to make my party, but at the moment it looks like this:

- Valygar
- Anomen
- Keldorn
- Minsc
- Imoen
- PC (Kensai/Mage/Thief)

I'm not all sure about the thief-thing... but it sounds like lot's o' fun. I would have liked to have Edwin in the party, but I'm afraid he won't fit into a good aligned party without making trouble. Last of all i believe i will change either Minsc or Anomen for Sarevok in ToB.

Once again... thanks to all of you !

[Mazeh]

Ahh, you can't do Kensai/mage/thief. It's either Kensai/Mage or Kensai/Thief.
I prefer Kensai/Thief, that little bastard can do some serious tank and be able to show some serious power, if you have ToB installed, due to "Use Any Item".

However, you CAN have a multiclass *Fighter/mage/thief, but then you can't have any kits.

[Phantom Lord]

[QUOTE=Mazeh]However, you CAN have a multiclass *Fighter/mage/thief, but then you can't have any kits.[/QUOTE]Yup, but he'll level slow. He'll get HLAs at the same point as other characters do though (around 2 million XP). I'm currently playing a F/M/T in a solo game and I think it's not the perfect addition for a big party - the levels of each class will be considerabely lower than those of other party members and you'll get level 9 spells somewhere near ToB (not SoA) XP cap. My current score looks like this:

Edit: In fact you wouldn't get level 9 spells within ToB cap limits. Cap is 8 million, the picture shows that I'll need 8.15 million to level up and my mage level will be 17 then. Not that I care, because I removed the cap for my current game, but with a full party it'll take very long to get even near that number of XP. My char is currently battling his way through the Underdark with a lot of major surface quests unfinished, but iirc I hit ToB cap near the end of ToB with a full party.

[Erenor]

[QUOTE=Painflux]Thank you so much for all the great answers!

I'm really not quite sure of as how I'm going to make my party, but at the moment it looks like this:

- Valygar
- Anomen
- Keldorn
- Minsc
- Imoen
- PC (Kensai/Mage/Thief)

I'm not all sure about the thief-thing... but it sounds like lot's o' fun. I would have liked to have Edwin in the party, but I'm afraid he won't fit into a good aligned party without making trouble. Last of all i believe i will change either Minsc or Anomen for Sarevok in ToB.

Once again... thanks to all of you ! [/QUOTE]

Although Sarevok is definately one of the two best fighters in the game, the other being Korgan in my opinion, he is also chaotic evil and shouldn't mesh well with your party. I havent' tried him in a while and I don't remember if aligment is a big deal in Throne of Bhaal or if he gets upset and leaves, but don't count on him staying with your party. If anyone else has experiene with this and Sarevok doesn't leave, please speak up and counter this post.

[Phantom Lord]

Well, the point with Sarevok is that (highlight for spoiler) ... his alignment may change to good depending on your actions.

[Cuchulain82]

[QUOTE=Painflux] I'm really not quite sure of as how I'm going to make my party, but at the moment it looks like this:
- PC (Kensai/Mage/Thief) I'm not all sure about the thief-thing... [/QUOTE]
As others have pointed out, you can't multi-class Kensai, only dual class.

I personally recommend against multiclassing with 3 classes- it takes so long to level, and your PC ends up weaker than the NPC's because your XP is cut 3 ways. In fact, all my spellcaters (divine and arcane) are either single classed or dualed at a low level (IMO there's no point to playing a mage if you don't get high level spells, spec. early in the game)

I wrote out my thoughts about why anyone (and everyone, for that matter ) should dual a F->Th. Here is that post. If you need more info, PM me.

[Luis Antonio]

You can always shadowkeep the K M T, cant you?

[Phantom Lord]

You can, but that doesn't resolve the low level issue (well, unless you uncap the game and SK a few million XP to the PC, which is probably not what Painflux aims at).

I'd go multiclass F/T for several reasons, linearity of character development being the most important one. Dual classing is OK too, but you have that gap inbetween until power increase hits big time when the first class reactivates. Elves or halflings would - of course - be perfect for a multiclass F/T.

[Painflux]

The kensai that I am going to make for my protagonist is supposed to be a kensai/thief so that he'll get the "use all items" skill. I only whant to give my PC the fewest possible lvl's in the thief class in order to gain the "use all items" skill (i don't know how high lvl a thief needs to be to get that skill). My question now is: shuold i start my PC as a thief and then dual-class him to a kensai later, or the other way arround?
After my PC get's the "use all items" skill i only wan't to take lvl's in the kensai class... so plz help me out here!

[Faust]

[QUOTE=Painflux]The kensai that I am going to make for my protagonist is supposed to be a kensai/thief so that he'll get the "use all items" skill. I only whant to give my PC the fewest possible lvl's in the thief class in order to gain the "use all items" skill (i don't know how high lvl a thief needs to be to get that skill). My question now is: shuold i start my PC as a thief and then dual-class him to a kensai later, or the other way arround?
After my PC get's the "use all items" skill i only wan't to take lvl's in the kensai class... so plz help me out here![/QUOTE]

Quite frankly, what you're wanting to do is not possible.

As a dual class character you can only get the HLA of your current class. Again, you can only dual class once, so there's no way to ever go back to your former class. As such, if you want the "Use Any Item" HLA, you'll have to become a thief second. This will mean, likewise, that you can't atain Fighter/Kensai HLA, but only the theif HLA. (You could attain them both by being a Fighter/Thief multiclass character, but you couldn't take the Kensai kit).

Likewise, in order to use the abilities of your former class, you have to surpass those levels in your current class. As such, the only way to make the build you're envisioning remotely doable, would be to take Theif level from your Kensai at a reasonable level while still in SoA. Meaning, if you're a level 14 Kensai you'd have to be a level 15 Thief to use the Kensai abilities. Make sense?

Regardless, I think if you wanted to dual your kensai into a theif at some point, you might be very satisfied. It's definitely a bit too powergamerish for my taste, but the combination of kensai abilities with backstab is lethal if properly used.